RMweb Gold Gilbert Posted March 11 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 11 I'm sure I'm over worrying but I am a bit naive in the DCC department - does the speed of work of the frog juicer (Tam Valley is my probable choice atm) always guarantee that sound locos don't momentarily cut out from the "short" with all the annoying restart issues that ensue? Thanks ChrisH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyPenguin Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 There are two types of "frog juicer" - one uses a relay switched by the electronics & the other is 100% electronic which is quicker. Unless anyone has any 100% experience I would be inclined to try one first. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted March 11 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 11 Ask Lord Bullock of Abbotswood @Phil Bullock Andi 1 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ITG Posted March 12 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 12 The layout in question is now dismantled, but I’m pretty sure that my sound locos passed through my reversing loop, powered by a Gaugemaster auto reverse unit. Ian 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted March 12 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 12 Simple answer - yes. In my experience using a Tam Valley Frog Juicer it has always switched polarity quickly enough to avoid any interrupt in sound (or hesitation in movement on non-stay alive fitted locos). 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted March 12 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 12 (edited) 7 hours ago, Dagworth said: Ask Lord Bullock of Abbotswood @Phil Bullock Andi So all the points on the previous incarnation of Abbotswood had Tam Valley frog juicers. On the current layout they are only used on diamonds and reversing loops. They are solid state not relays. We are totally DCC sound … and there are zero issues with them, they do their work without any indication they are there … polarity switching instantaneous. Take a look at layout videos in signature to see them in action … but you won’t notice them! No connection with firm just a very satisfied customer Edited March 12 by Phil Bullock 1 2 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Gilbert Posted March 12 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 12 Thanks to all - your answers are much appreciated. Chris 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted March 12 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 12 I have used both the Tam Valley and Gaugemaster ones with sound locos in OO, HO ,009 and N scales with no issues except for the Gaugemaster ones with 009 locos where the locos would stall on the frogs, so were replaced with Tam Valley ones. Oddly the Gaugemaster ones have worked fine with both UK and American N scale. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 (edited) We had a group of turnouts and a diamond needing 6 frogs controlled. We first fitted solid state juicers but 2 kept blowing. We've now changed to Gaugemaster solid state and they have proved very reliable on an intensive exhibition layout. Would recommend. Dave. Edited March 13 by dasatcopthorne 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 15 hours ago, dasatcopthorne said: We had a group of turnouts and a diamond needing 6 frogs controlled. We first fitted solid state juicers but 2 kept blowing. We've now changed to Gaugemaster solid state and they have proved very reliable on an intensive exhibition layout. Would recommend. Dave. The Gaugemaster DCC80 Frog Juicer is relay based and not fully electronic, if that’s what you mean by “solid state”. . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 I have both Tam Valley (electronic) and Gaugemaster (relay) types in use currently on Newton Broadway, and neither type causes any problems with any if my sound locos in OO. The only problems I have encountered with both types really involved faulty pickups on a couple of non-sound, short wheelbase locos (so not the frog juicers at fault). They simply weren't triggering the switchover of polarity because they weren't shorting the points out in the first place - the effective wheelbase was confined to being one axle due to the other one or two not picking up, and therefore unable to short out. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted March 14 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 14 17 hours ago, dasatcopthorne said: We had a group of turnouts and a diamond needing 6 frogs controlled. We first fitted solid state juicers but 2 kept blowing. We've now changed to Gaugemaster solid state and they have proved very reliable on an intensive exhibition layout. Would recommend. Dave. Another vote for Gaugemaster, dozens fitted on Wibdenshaw with no issues with sound fitted locos. The only issues I had with the juicers was when using them with NCE CP6 "light bulb" circuit protectors which "blew" faster than the relay operated on the juicer, further experimentation required on that issue! Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted March 14 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 14 I was underwhelmed by the Gaugemaster ones, I had one fail in short order. The Digitrax AR-1s were poor one, one never worked, another failed soon after. The Block Signalling ones are good, and are solid state. None of them had issues with sound fitted models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 56 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said: Another vote for Gaugemaster, dozens fitted on Wibdenshaw with no issues with sound fitted locos. The only issues I had with the juicers was when using them with NCE CP6 "light bulb" circuit protectors which "blew" faster than the relay operated on the juicer, further experimentation required on that issue! Mike. That is why some recommend solid state juicers instead of relay ones. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Geep7 Posted March 14 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 14 1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said: Another vote for Gaugemaster, dozens fitted on Wibdenshaw with no issues with sound fitted locos. The only issues I had with the juicers was when using them with NCE CP6 "light bulb" circuit protectors which "blew" faster than the relay operated on the juicer, further experimentation required on that issue! Mike. I'm assuming, that as you're using a CP6, that you have an NCE PowerCab. The EB1 solid state circuit protector has been updated so it's now compatible with the PowerCab, so possibly something to consider? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Geep7 Posted March 14 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 14 Another here who has no issues with frog juicers and DCC sound. I've used the Tam Valley and NCE PowerCab combo on 3 layouts now, and they've all worked fine. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 We discovered that the problem with fully solid state juicers is the power rating capacity. One loco mostly seems to be fine but beware of locos that draw more current than the juicer components can handle. Dave. 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 On 14/03/2024 at 09:34, dasatcopthorne said: We discovered that the problem with fully solid state juicers is the power rating capacity. One loco mostly seems to be fine but beware of locos that draw more current than the juicer components can handle. Dave. Similarly, I've known of issues with solid state juicers requiring a minimum current (2a) that is higher than a Powercab with a wall-wart (1.8a). 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium New Haven Neil Posted March 16 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 16 I have used Gaugemaster DCC80's on O gauge for sound locos for 7 years with no issues whatsoever. Dapol 350 (08 to the young) with Zimo/Digitrains decoder. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted March 16 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 16 On 14/03/2024 at 09:34, dasatcopthorne said: We discovered that the problem with fully solid state juicers is the power rating capacity. One loco mostly seems to be fine but beware of locos that draw more current than the juicer components can handle. Dave. Gen is here… Tam Valley frog juicers 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 Surely at the price that these devices are it is much more cost effective to use a motor with a built in switch that changes the frog polarity? They seem a very expensive solution for something that has already been solved for many years. 1 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 17 hours ago, WIMorrison said: Surely at the price that these devices are it is much more cost effective to use a motor with a built in switch that changes the frog polarity? They seem a very expensive solution for something that has already been solved for many years. 😂😂😂 I wondered how long it would be before the old arguments would surface yet again.... 🙄🙄🤦♂️ I use them as I don't use point motors, or even sliding switches to change my points, but lineside ground throws. Whether others think that's a waste of my money is of no interest to me whatsoever. 4 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold franciswilliamwebb Posted March 17 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 17 1 hour ago, F-UnitMad said: I use them as I don't use point motors, or even sliding switches to change my points, but lineside ground throws. Whether others think that's a waste of my money is of no interest to me whatsoever. Good on ya, I've been thinking of doing something similar for a few "off the grid" sidings that will never be operated by anything other than my trusty digit. Little point in adding a motor and linking them into the computer side of things, I thought 👍 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcm@gwr Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 4 hours ago, F-UnitMad said: 😂😂😂 I wondered how long it would be before the old arguments would surface yet again.... 🙄🙄🤦♂️ I use them as I don't use point motors, or even sliding switches to change my points, but lineside ground throws. Whether others think that's a waste of my money is of no interest to me whatsoever. You could still fit a micro-switch to change the polarity, even on a manually operated point, so much cheaper than a frog juicer. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted March 17 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 17 (edited) Two Tam ValleyFrog Juicers (6 inputs/outputs) in operation on my Layout, at close, complex and out of reach Xings and Points in close proximity. 8 years old now The simplicity of the wiring and no need for switching is what they are there for. Not one of my Sound Locos has any issues whilst traversing them. Otherwise on the Layout I use DC Switched Pointmotors from DCC Concepts on the in site areas and surface mounted simple Peco and Gaugemaster, plus Micro Switches for the off scene Storage sidings. I may even use manual W.I. Tube style for a couple of Yard Sidings once I get around to completing that area of one Yard near the Station. Edited March 17 by Mallard60022 Additional words. 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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