Hornby Magazine/Dapol Stove R .

[Taz]

I don't think this actually a limited edition though is it? Special commission yes.

 

In terms of price I think the nearest comparison would be something like a Hornby Maunsell Van C, which lists at around 21 quid.

 

The underfloor arrangement was always going to be tricky with a 3 axle chassis, presumably the arrangement presented was the least compromised, assuming this model is still designed to go round 2nd. radius curves.

 

Not sure how limited it will be. The gumpf sent out with the Order form indicated 500 models of each version will be produced initially. After that, who knows (well I'm sure Mike Wild and Dapol Dave do ) ?

 

As you say the chassis was always going to be a compromise to get round train set curves.

I hope they sort out the wheel size before production, but if they don't I'll just have to fix it myself (like you have to with the Hornby MK1 CCT).

[cctransuk]

 

 

 

So is the only tinplate bit left the roof then

 

No - in fact the only tinplate bit in the original model was the sides / false roof pressing!!

 

It featured superbly moulded underframe, ends and roof; well up to current standards. I only used cast axleguards in order to get a bit of weight low down.

 

By replacing the sides with Airfix plastic ones you get an all-plastic model, comparable to the Dapol one about to be released.

 

(In fact, Dapol must have had, at one time, the plastic injection tools for the Hornby Dublo STOVE van).

 

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

EDIT - For those that are interested, axle 1 is in a rigid etched axleguard, axle 3 is in an etched rocking axleguard, and axle two is in an internal tube bearing, very flexibly hung from the floor on a piece of phosphor bronze strip. The centre axleguards are fixed to the solebars and are non-functional.

[giz]

The sample shown isn't wrong, it's just not in original condition. One of the prototype photos linked to above has a short step board just like the model.

 

I also have a photo in front of me in one of David Larkin's books of M33006M dated 1974 which has another variation of two step boards, one under the left hand pair of doors and another beneath the guards door and the right hand pair of doors but stopping well short of the end.

[craigwelsh]

Its probably a resource saving measure under BR or rotten bits just cut off. Its easier to remove bits from a full one though than trying to add..

[giz]

I don't doubt this for one minute. But making a model of a preserved item that has had changes made to it isn't the way to do things. The best way by far to to make a model that is representative of the coaches as built. They can then carry LMS and BR liveries. Modellers can alter the models to suit themselves by removing footboards, corridor connections and so on. The coach in Dave Larkins book, No. M33006M was built in 1940 and has Ridge dome roof ventilators, something modellers could fit if they so choose.

 

I'm not saying they shouldn't produce an as built version, just that the sample can't be called 'wrong', especially as it isn't liveried so you can't say what era it represents.

 

And why do all models have to be as built? If that was the case it would be almost impossible to model diesel locos in the 80s without masses of reworking. Im not against modifying models but can't see why the later versions should be automatically be made wrong.

[201s]

Hello all, I live in Dallas, is their any way I can fax my order form in with my credit card details instead of mailing it? thanks

[Peter Beckett]

Hello all, I live in Dallas, is their any way I can fax my order form in with my credit card details instead of mailing it? thanks

 

 

I second that as I live in Oz and it will take over a week to get the reply to them.

 

Peter B)

[PrestburyJack]

Hello all, I live in Dallas, is their any way I can fax my order form in with my credit card details instead of mailing it? thanks

 

 

I second that as I live in Oz and it will take over a week to get the reply to them.

 

Peter B)

 

I can't receive faxes, but if you e-mail me a 'pdf' of your completed form I can print it and post it with mine, if that helps.

[Welchester]

Sorry if this is a stupid question (I've searched to no avail), but is the first livery listed (LMS maroon ends) the earliest?

[Preservation Modeller]

If the order form is available online in December, I'll DEFINATELY be trying to get one, dependant upon their price...

It does look to be a smashing model though!

[Martin_R]

You don't have to wait until December to order, I have just placed my order over the phone direct with Ian Allan on the phone number shown on the Stove R order form. They are hoping they will be available before Christmas BUT if they arrive too close to Christmas they will not send them until after New Year because of the risk of Christmas Mail delays etc. Payments however will be taken in December presumably to avoid the increase in VAT.

[DerekEm8]

To come back to Larry's point, surely the only true datum for a model which spans such a long history is the original drawing/build.

 

Using preserved vehicles is dangerous as non sympathetic preservation (eg temparory conversion to a Pullman Pantry/Kitchen) could become a historic fact in the future.

 

Another variation in preservation

 

Bury ELR 23 Feb 2008

 

 

 

In other words which preserved vehicle becomes the correct one ???

 

Edited to add clearer underframe shot

[craigwelsh]

These clearer shots have made me realise the J-hangars aren't of equal length, the middle ones being much longer than the outer! Very interesting bit of detail I hadn't picked up on before but it means Dapol are correct in the length but only really on the middle axle. Makes moulding them properly a bit more expensive though .

 

Its possible with the brake shoes that they look so odd due to the undersize wheel diameter rather than massively elongated.

 

 

As for which period to model - preservation is a dangerous thing to copy but commercially i'd suggest the best period to go for is 'common in late BR totem era (57-63 ish)' as its always the one that comes up most popular in the polls compared to grouping era. Not massively different from built in this case though apart from the livery, most of the changes will be late 60s or later.

[7013]

For overseas readers who wish to order the Phone No. is +44 1932 266622

[45568]

I second that as I live in Oz and it will take over a week to get the reply to them.

 

Peter B)

 

See 7013's comment above! I did this last night and the extremely helpful and pleasant lady, (Maureen??), made the whole operation of ordering two an absolute pleasure for this colonial boy!

Cheers, Peter C.

[The Stationmaster]

 

As for which period to model - preservation is a dangerous thing to copy but commercially i'd suggest the best period to go for is 'common in late BR totem era (57-63 ish)' as its always the one that comes up most popular in the polls compared to grouping era. Not massively different from built in this case though apart from the livery, most of the changes will be late 60s or later.

 

 

I agree wholeheatedly with that Graig (and it happens to suit me of course ) but a potential difficulty is tracing and accurately including any variations from 'as built' condition for which there might at least be some accurate drawings.

 

I also tend to agree with Larry that the worst possible course is to pick on a 'preserved' example - which might well have undergone BR mods (possibly limited to only a handful of vehicles) and has subsequently been 'restored' in either a compromised or less than accurate manner. This can readily happen with rolling stock - where repairs and mods were spread over all sorts of different locations and hence could become varied. And look at one recent example - a simple minor error in the latest repaint of 'City of Truro' to 'a livery which matches its mechanical condition' has been accurately reproduced on the NRM/Bachmann model. 'Work accurately from a preserved item, and recreate its errors' is surely not what customers really want?

[Oldddudders]

And look at one recent example - a simple minor error in the latest repaint of 'City of Truro' to 'a livery which matches its mechanical condition' has been accurately reproduced on the NRM/Bachmann model. 'Work accurately from a preserved item, and recreate its errors' is surely not what customers really want?[/i]

Oddly enough, in the case of CoT, and a handful of iconic prototypes, I suggest that is exactly what a majority of purchasers would want. Their thrill is to hold their model up to the real thing in the museum or on the preserved line, and find it is identical. Those of us who are more concerned about historical accuracy may not be in the majority in the case of models sold in conjunction with NRM.

[malcolmy]

I may be in a minority, but don't forget that some of us actually model preserved railways. So in my case LMS 32919 is the vehicle still in existence on the SVR. The originally released NRM City of Truro was painted as the currently preserved example was at that time, etc. etc.

[brushman47544]

To come back to Larry's point, surely the only true datum for a model which spans such a long history is the original drawing/build.

 

Using preserved vehicles is dangerous as non sympathetic preservation (eg temparory conversion to a Pullman Pantry/Kitchen) could become a historic fact in the future.

 

Why? On that basis you could say it is not acceptable to produce, for example, a BR MK1 RBR because the windows were modified from the original RB and RU coaches. It all depends what the model purports to be. Obviously a preserved Stove R may not be the best one to measure up to produce a vehicle in as built condition, but equally if the intention was to produce a model of the preserved Stove R, you wouldn't just reply on original drawings.

[coachmann]

So you wanna Stove R in latterday or preseved condition? The point that is being missed here is the manufacturer has already stated which liveries he is going to produce. It was on that basis that I said the model needs to represent the LMS 6-wheel van in as built condition. A model with modified footboards will not be accurate in LMS or BR carmine red livery, and might not even be corect for BR maroon. Latterday modifications produced a lot of variations.......This is where "modelling" comes in...!

[DerekEm8]

To bring this back on track.

 

From the Hornby Magazine website

 

"On completion the Stove R will be available with five different liveries: LMS lined maroon with maroon ends, LMS lined maroon with black ends, BR crimson, BR maroon and BR blue. The LMS and BR blue versions will be available with one running number initially while the BR crimson and maroon versions will be available with a choice of two running numbers. Final details of the livery specification were being completed during September ahead of the models planned launch in November this year."

 

No mention of as preserved variants which presumably will be left to the modeller to replicate.

[mike wild]

Evening all,

 

Thanks again for all your comments. We've had to make decisions and these equat to the wheel diameter and the footboard length.

 

The wheels will be 12mm owing to the fact that the chassis components would have to be entirely reworked at this stage to allow for 14mm wheels to fit into the model which unfortunately isn't feasible.

 

Secondly the running board will remain as per the sample. Having viewed a number of additional photographs supplied to me via a forum member there are three distinct variants to the footboard arrangement, although other information suggests that the longer version was more common in service - so thank you to both forum members who have provided the information and images. I will however discuss altering the stepboard length for a future batch (should market demand require such numbers of the Stove R) with Dapol so I hope this goes some way to addressing the comments mentioned previously in this thread.

 

With regard to the ordering process the mail out of order forms to those who registered their interest in the model has now been completed, although we have had a few e-mails bounce back. If you registered your interest in the model previously but haven't yet received an e-mail with the order form, please contact us by e-mailing Hornby.magazine@wildcomms.com (although please note this isn't an e-mail order line, as it is a separate office to our mail order department).

 

The December issue of the magazine (on sale on November 12) will include an order form for the model too, but if anyone overseas would like to get their order in quicker then please use the telephone number provided on the order form.

 

I hope this also clears up any issues with the ordering process.

 

We are now in the final stages of approving the livery artwork and ensuring that all the colours are correct before proceeding with production.

 

Thanks,

 

Mike Wild, Editor, Hornby Magazine

[iak]

Correction projects to be addressed to....................

So speaking for myself having ordered one in Carmine and one in Banger Blue I have some noodling to contemplate re the footboards.

And as for the underneath being a P4 type? Hey, its like Coach says - its were modelling comes in B)

Such is this wonderful hobby of ours........

[brushman47544]

Thank you Mike for clarifying what looks like will be a superb model.

 

So you wanna Stove R in latterday or preseved condition? The point that is being missed here is the manufacturer has already stated which liveries he is going to produce. It was on that basis that I said the model needs to represent the LMS 6-wheel van in as built condition. A model with modified footboards will not be accurate in LMS or BR carmine red livery, and might not even be corect for BR maroon. Latterday modifications produced a lot of variations.......This is where "modelling" comes in...!

I do not disagree with you in principal. What I was trying to get over was that if a manufactuer is producing a model of a vehicle that had a long life span with detail and livery changes over time, why should the tooling have to match the original vehicle specification? It could equally legitimately be based on final condition and so our modelling has to back date it for complete accuracy, as be based on original condition and our modelling has to update it for complete accuracy.

 

If the majority now appear model 1960s/BR late crest, as someone said earlier on this thread, it would not be unreasonable for a manufacturer to tool up for that period with a view to maximising sales and let those wanting complete accuracy for other periods to customise as necessary. There are plenty of models already out there where this is already the case. And - in my case trying - to make the changes can be fun/frustrating (delete as applicable)!

[The Stationmaster]

A question which hopefully Mike Wild can answer - with a limited number of units of what is likely to be a popular vehicle which takes precedence, an order made over the 'phone or one received on a posted pre-order form (which is dated but might be delayed in the post notwithstanding, in my case, a 1st Class stamp)?