Hornby Magazine/Dapol Stove R .

[Taz]

What is the vehicle ahead of the Stove ?

 

As Coach said, it looks like an ex SR PMV (Parkside kit PC36)

[Guest stuartp]

As Coach said, it looks like an ex SR PMV (Parkside kit PC36)

 

T'other photo I think - the bogie van in Robert's pic.

 

It looks like the one on page 25 of G Gamble's "Railways in Profile 6 - NPCCS" (Chenoa), the caption for which reads:

 

"E6020E has an interesting pedigree. When the Shenfield electrification scheme released ex-GER coaches some of their 54' underframes were given new metal panelled bodies with two pairs of cupboard doors per side, the LH ones having a drop light. This vehicle with fixed ends was classified 'PMV', those with end doors were 'CCT(E)' "

 

The next page has a pic of the CCT(E) variant. The positions of the doors, windows, general shape and underframe gubbins in Robert's pic match the PMV.

[coachmann]

An interesting vehicle indeed. These bogie vans appeared in the early 1950s as new bodies on redundant GER underframes. Two versions were built.... one fitted with solid non-corridor ends and the other with end doors to allow the loading of motor vehicles. They appeared in all parts of the country according to David Larkin (General Parcels Rolling Stock) and were turned out in carmine red livery. A few may have appeared in maroon but none lasted long enought to recieve rail blue. Would make for interesting models. I have no idea of their length, but an obvious donor vehicle for roof and ends would appear be the BR GUV plus MJT turnbuckle trussrod etches and MR 8' Bain bogies.

[Guest stuartp]

...an obvious donor vehicle for roof and ends would appear be the BR GUV.

 

Great minds ! I was just thinking there's a Lima GUV body in the loft and the pic of the CCT(E) (in ex-works unlined maroon in 1962) is at Millerhill which is near enough to Galloway for me...

[jwealleans]

Numbers for it are on the CCT BR NPCCS sheet. I fancied a go at on for no other reason than that.

[2ManySpams]

My stove R order for Treneglos has been justified purely on the grounds of a single photo of one at Halwill behind the engine bound (IIRC) for Padstow. Will make a nice change visually to the Southern and BR 4 wheel CCTs etc. If only the rest of the train were in shot....

[cctransuk]

Numbers for it are on the CCT BR NPCCS sheet. I fancied a go at on for no other reason than that.

 

An odd group of vehicles; there were four variants, depending on the source of the underframe.

 

One had a BR NPCS diagram issued - the rest didn't.

 

My refs. are :-

 

NO DIAGRAM : CCT(E): GER ILFORD STOCK U-F : Nos.E71035-99E, SOME FOR ANGLO-SCOTTISH CAR CARRIER: LNER CARRIAGES (ATLANTIC) - P103; BRM1 (can't remember what this abbreviation refers to!) - P197; B.R. GENERAL PARCELS ROLLING STOCK (BRADFORD BARTON) - P32; RAILWAYS IN PROFILE No.6, B.R. NON-PASSENGER ROLLING STOCK (CHEONA) - PL43; BRITISH RAILWAY MODELLING - 8/04;

 

NO DIAGRAM : CCT(E): LNER ILFORD STOCK U-F: Nos.E71000-34E, SOME FOR ANGLO-SCOTTISH CAR CARRIER : TRAINS ILLUSTRATED - 10/61; LNER CARRIAGES (ATLANTIC) - P113; MODEL RAIL - 8/00; BRITISH RAILWAY MODELLING - 8/04;

 

NO DIAGRAM : PMV : GER ILFORD STOCK U-F : Nos.E6001-81E : LNER CARRIAGES (ATLANTIC)- P113; RAILWAYS IN PROFILE No.6, B.R. NON-PASSENGER ROLLING STOCK(CHEONA)- PL41;

 

Dia.817 : CCT (Ex LNER U-F) : MODEL RAILWAY CONSTRUCTOR -5/83; BRM1 (can't remember what this abbreviation refers to!) - P198,203; TRAINS ILLUSTRATED - 10/61(?);MODEL RAIL - 8/00.

 

Transfers for all of these are on my Sheet C64.

 

BR standard CCTs and GUVs, including the one-off prototypes, are covered by Sheet BL64; the four-wheeled and bogie Ferry Scenery Vans, which were derived from the CCT and GUV prototypes, are on Sheet BL65.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood,

Cambridge Custom Transfers,

http://www.cctrans.freeserve.co.uk/products.htm

[Oldddudders]

My stove R order for Treneglos has been justified purely on the grounds of a single photo of one at Halwill behind the engine bound (IIRC) for Padstow. Will make a nice change visually to the Southern and BR 4 wheel CCTs etc. If only the rest of the train were in shot....

Chris - "Branchline to Bude" has a pic of 30717 leaving Okehampton on the 09 56 to Padstow/Bude, with a Stove R behind the loco, 4th June 1959. Certain to have been the Treneglos - oops, sorry Padstow - portion!

[2ManySpams]

Chris - "Branchline to Bude" has a pic of 30717 leaving Okehampton on the 09 56 to Padstow/Bude, with a Stove R behind the loco, 4th June 1959. Certain to have been the Treneglos - oops, sorry Padstow - portion!

 

that's the photo i was thinking of Ian. I'm away from the library at the moment so it's good to have the confirmation. Thanks.

[coachmann]

Were exactly does one place a firm order for the Stove R? The links I was sent on email are dead (IA website) and I don't have details of price or liveries on offer.

[orcadian]

Were exactly does one place a firm order for the Stove R? The links I was sent on email are dead (IA website) and I don't have details of price or liveries on offer.

 

 

There will be a printed order form and full details in next months (December) Hornby Magazine, (no.42), due out on Nov 12th (subscribers early Nov). I think the on-line ordering facility may only have been open to those who had pre-registered an interest several months ago.

Richard

[coachmann]

I think the on-line ordering facility may only have been open to those who had pre-registered an interest several months ago.

Richard

Thanks Richard. I did pre-order at the time but my recent e-mails have not included an order form, while other gave a link to the Ian Allan asite that is currently now online.

 

My grateful thanks to the two people who PM'd me and to Chris N. for the order form.

 

Larry

[orcadian]

Larry,

The order form was attached as a .pdf on the second of the two e-mails I received from Mike Wild on Wednesday 13th October.

It might be worthwhile looking in your e-mail 'In box'. There were two attachments to that e-mail, one was a general letter and the second probably a copy of the page from the forthcoming HM, with illustrations, details of liveries and an order form at the bottom of the page.

 

I don't think I can attach it here for copyrght reasons, and also because I think it was only sent to those, like ourselves, who had pre-registered.

 

Hope this helps you, and anyone else who should already have an order form!

 

Richard

[coachmann]

Hi Richard,

 

I had another look and by gum you're right. The order form was attached.

Cheers,

Larry

[Blenheim]

For anybody who seriously objects to the rtr version, there are at least 2 etched brass kits which can be built, and hopefully a plastic kit, (Puts hands together and prays!!)

 

That sounds a bit like me then! (I am late to this thread via "Small Suppliers"...) I have one copy of the Comet kit and two copies of the 5522 kit nicely maturing in the cupboard. From all the discussion, it seems to me that the way is still open for Roger Chivers to produce a plastic kit -- I would buy one -- but I can appreciate the risk with an RTR offering soon to be on the market.

 

Just in case this sounds like a "me too" posting, I can offer a little more prototype information of sorts. It may not be widely known, but there is a Stove R rotting away deep in GWR territory -- at the GWS at Didcot. It is a body only and has been used as a store, and has clearly seen better days. It appears to be M33002M. Enclosed is a photo taken during the summer of 2009.

[7013]

Stationmaster posting on the Wycrail thread writes that they had preprod. Stove R s to look at. This was posted on MREmag today. I apologise if I have breached any publishing copyrights etc. so feel free to remove it Mods if I have, but it is interesting in the context of this thread that has generated a lot of heat ( from that Stove!!!!)

Quote

Thank you for the comments on MREmag with regard to the LMS 'Stove R' both positive and negative. Unfortunately at this stage in production, and for commercial reasons, we are unable to correct the 12mm wheels or brake shoes positions. Starting with the brake shoes, we had a choice to either mount them in line with the wheels or as per the real thing, which it now appears some completely disagree with. However, the model cannot be altered in this respect as much as I would have liked to. Turning to the wheels as stated the model has been designed to operate on second radius curves this being so that anyone can use the model on their layout, although this has caused the compromise with the wheel diameter. This is partly down to the design of the bogies which support each of the outer axles which needs a certain thickness of plastic in order to maintain strength and not become a delicate area of the model. I accept that some will see that third radius curves should be the marker for all models, but there are many layout builders who have to build with second radius curves and we wouldn’t want to alienate a large part of the market.

 

With regard to altering the model to carry 14mm wheels I will be able to confirm how to do this during this week. On my job list is to dismantle our pre-production model and fit it with 14mm wheels so that I can provide a how to type feature both for the Hornby Magazine website (www.hornbymagazine.com) and the magazine so that anyone who wishes to purchase the Stove R has the option to change the model to have scale wheels. While I accept this is not ideal, I hope it at least shows that we are being up front and prepared to illustrate how it can be modified. Once this is done I will be able to provide a fuller answer to the question about ride height and coupling height.

 

Mike Wild, Editor, Hornby Magazine unquote

[craigwelsh]

Mike also advises "that with respect to the brake blocks position that is his is new favourite question – whichever way they chose to model them with this theyI would have been wrong, so it was a difficult call to make. Re the wheels they are currently 12mm diameter – he will check the measurements to ascertain whether they should be 14.2mm carriage wheels or not."

Considering this earlier quote I don't think it was Hornby mag deciding wheel diameter. I don't read mremag very often but i'm glad the issue was independently picked up on there which means it isn't just me being pedantic . The big test for things like wheel size if the comparative one where it runs next to coaches which should have the same wheels and would look wrong.

 

The pivoting bogies shouldn't have compromised wheel diameter, an area of dropped floor could have been incorporated behind the solebars to maintain the thickness of plastic while allowing for the larger diameter wheels. The trucks would still have pivoted with the larger wheels in place imho.

 

As the the brake blocks they are wrong for the prototype being too far out and as I said earlier, don't really resemble the real ones.

 

Nice way of getting an extra article for the magazine though. Coachman has done a great job on a Comet one in the Kitbuilding section now though to show an alternative and i've gone for a 5522 one for my rake.

[2ManySpams]

I couldn't help but smile that in the current HM there's a Comet advert for their Stove R. It makes special reference to the wheels being the correct size....

[RedgateModels]

OK, Silly question, but I am a rolling stock numpty ....

 

What were these used for, were they just a sort of short brake caoch in a passenger rake, if so, what was carried in them etc etc etc

 

cheers

 

Ian

[craigwelsh]

OK, Silly question, but I am a rolling stock numpty ....

 

What were these used for, were they just a sort of short brake caoch in a passenger rake, if so, what was carried in them etc etc etc

 

cheers

Ian

Used in the same way as the bogie brakes so parcels/luggage van in some passenger rakes. 6-wheel versions seemed popular with both the LMS and LNER. They were often used for the guard on passenger speed milk trains though.

[7013]

Not only is it an extra article for the magazine it shows that they are concerned about the criticism and are trying to look into converting the chassis if one wishes to.

 

Of course if you really get fed up with it once you have made your purchase you can always 'Didcotise' it!

[NINJA]

Whichever way you pick would have been wrong with regard to the above issues regarding wheels and brake blocks it is stated, so it looks like they have opted for the toy trains rather than the railway modellers. I would have thought with this being a limited edition and not a cheap model the market it was aimed at was the more serious railway modeller rather than the circle of track with tight radius curves so it should have been a priory to make it as accurate as possible.

[Arthur]

I couldn't help but smile that in the current HM there's a Comet advert for their Stove R. It makes special reference to the wheels being the correct size....

Yeah, made me smile too.  Appears just a few pages after HM's own Stove advert!

 

 

 

[artisan100]

I couldn't help but smile that in the current HM there's a Comet advert for their Stove R. It makes special reference to the wheels being the correct size....

 

Who? Me?

 

Geoff

Comet Models

[iak]

Methinks we should wait to see what the beastie looks like "in the flesh" and how the improvement/conversion articles work out.

If the bodywork is accurately modelled as one hopes then the downstairs is to be cogitated over - fine, lets get it on.

I venture to suggest a few ideas will appear apart from those in HM.