RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted May 22, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 22, 2012 I regularly get around £1.50 a month on my account. Oh, for a lottery win... Sounds like Paul has recently had one! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 The market for 25kv traction in UK N Gauge may not yet be robust enough. It'd be interesting to find out what is a "robust enough" market for anything to sell, as I can't think of one single thing apart from perhaps some scenic stuff such as ballast or grass that will appeal to the majority of modellers in one particular scale. Obviously things that can be produced in a variety of liveries and could be seen running in a wide variety of areas over a long time period will have the greatest appeal to the greatest number of modellers - hence why the 08 possibly chosen as one of the first O gauge rtr products in the Dapol range. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Clearly the lack of a Pendolino is Virgin's fault - had they kept it to a single trailing bodyshell we'd all be laughing now. We need to petition the DFT that all new rolling stock for trains more than 3 carriages needs standard bodies so that Bachmann/Dapol and Hornby can reduce tooling costs. But seriously you can appreciate Dapol's dilemma, if they can't sell enough 86s which span from the 60s to present to make a decent return what hope a 9 coach anaconda of train in a single livery that has only operated on a single route since the 2002. The only hope is for the 350 to sell in enough numbers to indicate an upturn, a downsized 85 won't help though please Dapol if an 85 appears in N do some more blue 86's and MK3as. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted May 22, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 22, 2012 <snipped> The only hope is for the 350 to sell in enough numbers to indicate an upturn... <snipped> I agree that if the Desiro sales are disappointing then will be little chance of other newly tooled OHLE products from Barwell. cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted May 22, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 22, 2012 I think most of us are probably more frustrated than "grumbling", Grumbling implies complaining without any real substance to your argument - whereas the fact that the catalogue is 3 months late (so far) can be proven from the very first post in this thread which has delayed a lot of people's plans as to whether to proceed with a layout idea or to take it down a different route based on the availability (or non availability) of items from Dapol. Obviously things that can be produced in a variety of liveries and could be seen running in a wide variety of areas over a long time period will have the greatest appeal to the greatest number of modellers - And then what happens when Dapol don't immediately produce it in the livery that fits in with your plans? Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Moria Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 But but but... ermmmmm 92's and 89's are already available ready to run in N gauge in every livery ever run in and surely if its THAT important for your next layout, then rather than buying those 4 new Farish/Dapol locos or those 2 HST power car sets, none of which "really" fit into the period for the last layout but you did like them, you can have exactly what you want and in any livery you want. What's more, they have been in the catalogue and available for many years, so is there an issue? Your dream layout is deffinately do-able. Regards Graham Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomag Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 But seriously you can appreciate Dapol's dilemma, if they can't sell enough 86s which span from the 60s to present. The problem with the Cl86 is that as modelled it does not cover the 60s to present. It covers about half the fleet from the 1990s. I nearly did not buy the model of 86401 in NSE as it was wrong for its normal service life, but I realised that it wouldn't get released as it was in the late 1980's. The only Cl86 liveries I haven't got is EWS and new FL - there is a limit on trying to maintain sales! As for the cl89 and cl92 the version I want is the one which has the detail and performance commensurate with a mass produced locos costing say £100-£110. Paying say £500 for a loco would rather put a dent in my enjoyment of it, but then I am less bothered with modelling a specific vehicle (however nice) and prefer to concentrate on enjoying the whole train in the landscape.In the end the 2012 catalogue will be out when its out, its up to Dapol. I would suggest that next year its announced after its finished. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted May 23, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 23, 2012 The problem with the Cl86 is that as modelled it does not cover the 60s to present. It covers about half the fleet from the 1990s. Dapol have "produced" the 86 as they see fit. Can an early 86 be created by backdating it, using the technique of "modelling"? . The only Cl86 liveries I haven't got is EWS and new FL With EWS and the new FL -there may be licensing (and associated cost) issues with the liveries. Dave maybe able to expand on this, but I wouldn't be particularly concerned if Dave avoided any commercial issues that he can't/won't discuss. (He already hinted at issues with the Class 70) Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 And then what happens when Dapol don't immediately produce it in the livery that fits in with your plans? Then based on what does appear - or is at least announced - it'll enable me to proceed informedly with what I have in mind with my little O gauge project For example, I'd be silly to buy a Slater's kit for nearly £40 and mess about putting it together if an rtr equivalent of the same wagon needing little to no work apart from perhaps a quick dirtying up with an airbrush for £25 is announced. Particularly if I want 10 of them. That's £150 difference before you even think about paint, glue, time etc. Of course, there are many who will choose a kit anyway as that's their preferred style of modelling and it gives them more opportunity for detailing from the get-go - but I would rather not mess about with complex kits unnecessarily. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Then based on what does appear - or is at least announced - it'll enable me to proceed informedly with what I have in mind with my little O gauge project Or you could get your hairy brushes (or state of the art air-brush equipment) out. As Mick says there is the modelling option, but then more and more seem to be eshewing it. And I thought that this was a model railway forum. Oh well, I might as well join the masses - I want a . . . . . . . . G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Or you could get your hairy brushes (or state of the art air-brush equipment) out. As Mick says there is the modelling option, but then more and more seem to be eshewing it. And I thought that this was a model railway forum. Oh well, I might as well join the masses - I want a . . . . . . . . "Modelling" does not just involve scratchbuilding everything from biscuit tins and turning your own wheels on a lathe in your shed. There's a wide variety of modelling styles and standards on here right from those with an oval of Setrack on a kitchen table through to people like Jim S-W and the Birmingham New Street project, and beyond. I enjoy more the scenic side of creating a layout, rather than spending hours handbuilding track and stock when - to my eye - a perfectly good r-t-r option would do. I accept that we all have different standards, skill levels and expectations but please don't denigrate those of us who prefer the r-t-r option - those of us whom without, the likes of Dapol, Hornby, Bachmann, Heljan, Peco etc wouldn't exist. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted May 23, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 23, 2012 I accept that we all have different standards, skill levels and expectations but please don't denigrate those of us who prefer the r-t-r option - those of us whom without, the likes of Dapol, Hornby, Bachmann, Heljan, Peco etc wouldn't exist. Without the above, you wouldn't exist. (Chicken and egg and all that) So don't denigrate the manufacturers when they're a little late or don't bring out what you want. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 So don't denigrate the manufacturers when they're a little late or don't bring out what you want. Then of course there's those that complain when manufacturers bring out what people have been asking for, because something is 0.1mm too high/low/thin/wide or whatever... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted May 23, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 23, 2012 what hope a 9 coach anaconda of train in a single livery that has only operated on a single route since the 2002. Now becoming 10 coaches ... Not sure I'd call London to Birmingham/Wolves/Manchester/Holyhead/Liverpool/Glasgow (and some intermediates) a single route as such but it does, geographically limit the choices, however one has operated down the ECML ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Al Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 For example: When Farish produced the Class 91, Mk4 coaches and DVT they simply tooled three bodyshells, two unpowered chassis and one powered chassis. Not only that but the powered chassis had a stack of common components with other Farish units (basically a class 40 chassis with the bogies and baseplate changed) which would have kept costs down. And while I agree with their decision (for the time being) to hold off on the Pendolino, I think they should consider reinstating the 92 especially as there are more and more liveries. But then, it's not my money is it? They are now close to loosing some sales on 92 as there is a nice 3D print project of one going on on another list for those who don't want to wait... Cheers, Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLD Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 ... London to Birmingham/Wolves/Manchester/Holyhead/Liverpool/Glasgow ... Que calls from North Wales modellers for an unpowered 'dummy' version "'cos they don't want to pay for an 'expensive' motor" to represent the drag to Holyhead... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted May 23, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 23, 2012 please don't denigrate those of us who prefer the r-t-r option - those of us whom without, the likes of Dapol, Hornby, Bachmann, Heljan, Peco etc wouldn't exist. I don't think it is a case of denigrating, more just that other options exist. If we all wait for all the stock we want/need then practically nothing will ever get completed. There is always gaps in stock that isn't available RTR. It is a bit like saying I want to model X and for that I need a model of 88003, but the manufacturer has only produced 88002. Well you either live with that or re-number it. Similarly for those saying Dapol have only produced a late variant 86 well the same choice exists - live with it or adapt it. Ultimately you reach the point where you are kit bashing or scratch building. Cheers, Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 As Mick says there is the modelling option, but then more and more seem to be eshewing it. Part of that is the cost of the loco to start with. I wanted a lined autotank to represent 1470 on the ashburton branch in the early 50s. Not a problem as I picked up a plain black 14xx for £30 and added the lining with transfers. I would have been a bit more hesitant to take the same plunge with a loco costing 3 times as much. The reluctance to modify RTR stock these days is a side-effect of the increased quality and cost of these items. It is not always an unwillingness to actually do modelling, it is a lack of confidence in their abilities to modify a £100 loco without ruining it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 "Modelling" does not just involve scratchbuilding everything from biscuit tins and turning your own wheels on a lathe in your shed. . No, but I think you're missing the point that my comments were in response to your answer to Micks question "what happens when Dapol don't immediately produce it in the livery that fits in with your plans?" You could, indeed, repaint it as I suggested - and that is not scratch-bashing from biscuit tins. G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Looking at the "why not produce" from a slightly different angle, what to me is lacking in N, particularly in the steamier eras, is a set of decent chassis that can be used as a basis for kits/scratchbuilds/conversions. With this in mind the M7 is useable as a basis for an ex-NER G5, and it may be possible to make a C12 4-4-2T on a 14xx chassis- indeed there is one kit for the 14xx available. I'm looking at using a Terrier chassis to make a J67/J69, but more useable chassis would be welcome. Could a Grange be a possibility from a Manor chassis and bits of a NQP Hall, for example- or bits of a whitemetal Grange kit? Just fairly random examples. Not everyone can build chassis. Bodies and conversions are a route to an expanded fleet. All the best Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Part of that is the cost of the loco to start with. I wanted a lined autotank to represent 1470 on the ashburton branch in the early 50s. Not a problem as I picked up a plain black 14xx for £30 and added the lining with transfers. I would have been a bit more hesitant to take the same plunge with a loco costing 3 times as much. Models may be more expensive than 50 years ago but everything has increased in price. Taking in to account inflation and increased wages they are probably 'cheaper' than 50 years ago and they are certainly better value for money. The reluctance to modify RTR stock these days is a side-effect of the increased quality and cost of these items. It is not always an unwillingness to actually do modelling, it is a lack of confidence in their abilities to modify a £100 loco without ruining it. You won't know until you try. Take it step by step and you won't ruin it. You can practice on cheaper throw-away items and become more proficient. Besides, with modern materals, tools and techniques, modelling is a lot easier these days and you'll probably find that doing some modelling is actually more satifying and rewarding than carping away that the manufacturers haven't done it for you. G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 23, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 23, 2012 Models may be more expensive than 50 years ago but everything has increased in price. Taking in to account inflation and increased wages they are probably 'cheaper' than 50 years ago and they are certainly better value for money. G. Judging from using most of the usual sources of inflation calculation and comparing RRP of today with past catalogue prices that isn't actually the case. But that ignores the tremendous leap forward in fidelity and technical matters compared with, say, the early 1960s and also ignores the fact that you can usually get a discount of at least 10% off RRP and often much more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 No, but I think you're missing the point that my comments were in response to your answer to Micks question "what happens when Dapol don't immediately produce it in the livery that fits in with your plans?" You could, indeed, repaint it as I suggested - and that is not scratch-bashing from biscuit tins. I'm not sure that many - if any - of us would complain that a certain model wasn't released in exactly the livery and condition it appeared at 2.30pm on the 14th May 1973 when you underlined it in your book. Repainting - or renumbering, for that matter - isn't quite a rocket science but as discussed otherwise discussed most of us are somewhat nervous about spending £100 (or hundreds, if you're in O gauge) on an rtr model to take the knife or paintbrush to it. I'm quite happy to give anything I buy a quick spray of crud and grime to weather it to give it a less shiny and more 'work worn' appearance, but so far my luck with full repaints has been less than encouraging. I know, practice more etc etc but that isn't always the easy option - and, of course sometimes a single bad experience on a bad day can be enough to put someone off attempting something (like using an airbrush) for a long, long time. I'm sure there aren't many people around here that at one time or another haven't been tempted to chuck the whole lot on Ebay and give up completely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaulCheffus Posted May 23, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 23, 2012 Sounds like Paul has recently had one! Hi Nope I don't do the lottery. Without giving too much away I have just checked a couple of statements at random. Dec 11 and Jan 12 I got around £3.50 interest Apr 12 I got £1.29 Cheers Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave777 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I could have sworn this thread was about Dapol's catalogue and not RTR versus 'modelling'... How about we all just sit tight and wait for it to appear? It's delayed, it's irritating, but... well... hey-ho what can you do? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.