DENT STATION with CHESTERGATE

[Leander]

Going through some old photos and struggling to remember this location, any help would be appreciated

Looks like the diesel depot which was built alongside the steam shed at Kirkby in Ashfield, See https://www.flickr.com/photos/barkingbill/2127586164 for comparison.

[Clive Mortimore]

Looks like the diesel depot which was built alongside the steam shed at Kirkby in Ashfield, See https://www.flickr.com/photos/barkingbill/2127586164 for comparison.

Hi

 

I agree with it being Kirkby in Ashfield, but according to the Hawkins and Reeve LMS Engine Sheds, Vol. 2 Midland Railway, it was part of the 1958 steam shed improvement. Coal tower, and ash lifting plant were built at the same time as the new two road extension of the steam shed. It was converted quite early on for diesel use.

 

There were many late steam shed improvements that were converted to diesel, most had been authorised before the 1955 modernisation plan had been introduced and were built because steam was still the main form of locomotion. Ones that readily come to mind are Ipswich, the first all diesel shed, Leicester, the three road steam repair shed is now the diesel shed, and of course Thornaby, the last new steam shed.

[67A]

Hi Mike

 

If you were to start Dent again or another layout would you use spirals again?

 

Ian

Hi Ian,

 

I would likely advise no! However they have achieved the main aims those being to keep one side of the den clear for modelling desk and storage etc. and primarily to avoid limbo dancing to get in (I despise lift up/out sections).

 

If I was to use them again they would have to be:

 

1. Larger radius to allow close coupling

2. Lesser incline, currently 1:75

 

I did begin the spirals with a 5ft radius but realised the space they took up prevented the required scenic area. On the whole its a good concept which sadly has drawbacks, if short trains are to be run I think they would work very well but long steam hauled prototype rakes do require assistance I found.

[edward66]

What a great collection of pictures, this layout is wonderful! One small point, I did a bit of research and discovered that the use of lime in cattle wagons was discontinued many years ago and certainly before BR days yet it is seen in many layouts. Maybe it continued unofficially in some places?

[67A]

What a great collection of pictures, this layout is wonderful! One small point, I did a bit of research and discovered that the use of lime in cattle wagons was discontinued many years ago and certainly before BR days yet it is seen in many layouts. Maybe it continued unofficially in some places?

Hi Edward,

 

Must admit that's a new one on me, thanks for the comments.

[67A]

Looks like the diesel depot which was built alongside the steam shed at Kirkby in Ashfield, See https://www.flickr.com/photos/barkingbill/2127586164 for comparison.

Hi Leander,

 

Thanks for that, I tried googling Kirkby-in-Ashfield MPD among many others but could not get a match from those on offer, There are others which I think are looking the other way with the coaling and ash towers but even those did not jog the grey cells! Here they are to just have a look at.

 

 

All these are from a pile of negatives which have no information and as the years add up the memory deducts yet there are some instantly recognizable strange how the memory works .......... or doesn't. Hahaha. I have several thousand infrastructure photos and offered a selection to 'Booklaw Publishing' in October last year, sadly he has not yet replied.

 

Hope you like.

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Mike

 

Those photos of Kirkby in Ashfield shed are fantastic, and if you weren't a geezer I would kiss you for the lovely photo of the snowplough head on. Can I copy them for my own files? Most photos of Kirkby just show class 20s sitting in the remains of the roofless Midland railway shed, yours do show how the railway was gearing up to meet "modern" steam locomotive handling when it dramatically changed course. Waste of effort and money? With hindsight, possibly yes but at the time these works were being done they were an investment that was needed.

 

Had Kirkby become a sub shed of Tinsley at this point in time, the snowplough suggest it is now ER not LMR?

[67A]

Hi Mike

 

Those photos of Kirkby in Ashfield shed are fantastic, and if you weren't a geezer I would kiss you for the lovely photo of the snowplough head on. Can I copy them for my own files? Most photos of Kirkby just show class 20s sitting in the remains of the roofless Midland railway shed, yours do show how the railway was gearing up to meet "modern" steam locomotive handling when it dramatically changed course. Waste of effort and money? With hindsight, possibly yes but at the time these works were being done they were an investment that was needed.

 

Had Kirkby become a sub shed of Tinsley at this point in time, the snowplough suggest it is now ER not LMR?

Hi Clive,

No problem using the photos mate.

I can't find any mention of Kirkby being a sub-shed of Tinsley, it was 16B for years then changed to 16E about 1967.

[Leander]

Hi Clive,

No problem using the photos mate.

I can't find any mention of Kirkby being a sub-shed of Tinsley, it was 16B for years then changed to 16E about 1967.

K in A became 16E from1/9/63 and closed (to steam presumably 3/10/66). What its status was thereafter I'm uncertain (depot in its own right, signing on point or sub-shed). Whatever, it remained in the Nottingham Division of the LMR and was therefore under Toton. The ER/LMR regional boundary was at Horns Bridge just to the south of Chesterfield station on the MML.

Edited January 9, 2017 by Leander

[Clive Mortimore]

K in A became 16E from1/9/63 and closed (to steam presumably 3/10/66). What its status was thereafter I'm uncertain (depot in its own right, signing on point or sub-shed) I'm not certain. Whatever, it remained in the Nottingham Division of the LMR and was therefore under Toton. The ER/LMR regional boundary was at Horns Bridge just to the south of Chesterfield station on the MML.

Hi Mike and Leander

 

I am puzzled how a LMR shed got its hands on a ER snowplough. I have a thing about ex tender ER snowploughs. Was there an ex GCR or GNR shed close by that transferred men and machines to Kirkby on closure? I ask this because Langwith Junction (ex GCR) moved everything but its steam locos to the new diesel shed at Shirebrook MR station, well its goods yard. DE330915 is not listed in the ER 1972 sectional appendix so was no longer on the ER books. I do have my own master list of these ploughs noting the origin of the tender and type of plough, it already noted as being at Kirkby in Ashfield as a GNR tender with a flat face medium plough.  Thanks for the photos.

[67A]

Hi Mike and Leander

 

I am puzzled how a LMR shed got its hands on a ER snowplough. I have a thing about ex tender ER snowploughs. Was there an ex GCR or GNR shed close by that transferred men and machines to Kirkby on closure? I ask this because Langwith Junction (ex GCR) moved everything but its steam locos to the new diesel shed at Shirebrook MR station, well its goods yard

Sorry Clive I have absolutely no idea.

[islandbridgejct]

New trees for Christmas?

 

 

 

(And a belated happy new year.)

 

Alan

 

[Edited because I went off at half cock again. Sorry.]

Edited January 9, 2017 by islandbridgejct

[67A]

New trees for Christmas?

 

 

(And a belated happy new year.)

 

Alan

 

[Edited because I went off at half cock again. Sorry.]

Hi Alan,

 

Well done for spotting the trees, at least someone is sober awake. Yes a small plantation took root together with random ground cover such as heather. All the best for 2017 also.

fell done 

[Leander]

Sorry Clive I have absolutely no idea.

Ditto.

[islandbridgejct]

Hi Alan,

 

Well done for spotting the trees, at least someone is sober awake. Yes a small plantation took root together with random ground cover such as heather. All the best for 2017 also.

fell done 

 

With puns like that, you're lucky I didn't take a chainsaw to them trees - blockin' me view of the trains like that. Can't get a decent photo roun' here no more.

 

Alan

[67A]

With puns like that, you're lucky I didn't take a chainsaw to them trees - blockin' me view of the trains like that. Can't get a decent photo roun' here no more.

 

Alan

Just like the real then eh!  

[edward66]

Hi Edward,

 

Must admit that's a new one on me, thanks for the comments.

Hi Mike, I looked in the search box at the opening page of RMWeb under "use of lime in cattle wagons" and it came up with numerous references. Apparently it was banned as long ago as c.1926 which I must admit surprised me so I imagine it continued unofficially in some places.

[The Stationmaster]

Hi Mike, I looked in the search box at the opening page of RMWeb under "use of lime in cattle wagons" and it came up with numerous references. Apparently it was banned as long ago as c.1926 which I must admit surprised me so I imagine it continued unofficially in some places.

 

I'd be very surprised if it continued anywhere.  the Railway companies went to considerable lengths to make sure their cattle wagon procedures complied with the law of the land and no doubt any miscreants would have finished up in serious trouble (although whether that would be before or after their court hearing would be a moot point).

[67A]

Ain't life a b***h, I' have had many of those cattle wagons for years and only over the holidays did I decide to whiten them only to find .................. I shouldn't have. I honestly can't remember seeing lime traces or not on the real thing so just went with my gut feeling and the fact Edward66 pointed out that most models have them so treated. Oh well back to the paint shop in a few years time. Thanks to bot Edward66 and 'Mike' The Stationmaster for confirmation, it all helps.

[67A]

I am currently compiling a working timetable based on the information available through Steve Rabone's Website on Hellifield and luckily I have old 1961/2/3 LMR passenger timetables in my collection. Seems a busier freight line than expected as far as I can see up to now.

[67A]

Hi

 

I agree with it being Kirkby in Ashfield, but according to the Hawkins and Reeve LMS Engine Sheds, Vol. 2 Midland Railway, it was part of the 1958 steam shed improvement. Coal tower, and ash lifting plant were built at the same time as the new two road extension of the steam shed. It was converted quite early on for diesel use.

 

There were many late steam shed improvements that were converted to diesel, most had been authorised before the 1955 modernisation plan had been introduced and were built because steam was still the main form of locomotion. Ones that readily come to mind are Ipswich, the first all diesel shed, Leicester, the three road steam repair shed is now the diesel shed, and of course Thornaby, the last new steam shed.

Hi Clive,

 

I always believed that 'Devons Road' in Bow, London was the first pupose built all diesel shed.

[Barry O]

Ain't life a b***h, I' have had many of those cattle wagons for years and only over the holidays did I decide to whiten them only to find .................. I shouldn't have. I honestly can't remember seeing lime traces or not on the real thing so just went with my gut feeling and the fact Edward66 pointed out that most models have them so treated. Oh well back to the paint shop in a few years time. Thanks to bot Edward66 and 'Mike' The Stationmaster for confirmation, it all helps.

One of our members (a retired vet) wonders if cattle wagons were disinfected during foot and mouth outbreaks. From a photo of the cattle pens on Chapel they may have done this with a whitish substance in the 1930s. Not sure what happened in the 1960s.

 

Baz

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Clive,

 

I always believed that 'Devons Road' in Bow, London was the first pupose built all diesel shed.

Devons Road was the first "converted" steam shed to house diesel locomotives, it still had a sizable steam allocation. Ipswich was the first shed with an all diesel allocation after its steam locos had been reallocated or withdrawn.

 

Now this is a very poor admission, I don't know which shed was the first new build diesel shed. 

[edward66]

Ain't life a b***h, I' have had many of those cattle wagons for years and only over the holidays did I decide to whiten them only to find .................. I shouldn't have. I honestly can't remember seeing lime traces or not on the real thing so just went with my gut feeling and the fact Edward66 pointed out that most models have them so treated. Oh well back to the paint shop in a few years time. Thanks to bot Edward66 and 'Mike' The Stationmaster for confirmation, it all helps.

Sorry to have given you some extra work to do Mike but I'm sure you are a stickler for accuracy and will feel obliged to do it. There must be countless other modellers who are unaware of the 1926 ruling and will continue to lime their cattle wagons!

[The Stationmaster]

One of our members (a retired vet) wonders if cattle wagons were disinfected during foot and mouth outbreaks. From a photo of the cattle pens on Chapel they may have done this with a whitish substance in the 1930s. Not sure what happened in the 1960s.

 

Baz

 

There were very few railborne cattle movements left by the 1960s in any case.  The disinfection required under the 1920s regulations would I think have been on a par with the usual precautions for Foot & Mouth disease as it required some very 'close' cleaning followed by disinfection. However what should not be overlooked is that under Foot & Mouth Restriction Orders going way back it was prohibited to move almost any class of animal by rail to or from affected areas - loads of old circulars were for ever carrying new or reminder restrictions on animal movements.