Andrew P Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Hi Guys, Just a mention on the backscene, I have taken a panoramic view of the fells around Dent itself and having driven around the spot I know the fells rise significantly just driving up the Coal Road so my intention is to forward the photos to 'Art-Printers' for them to stitch them into a panoramic scene, bonus is, there is still no new housing estate or such to worry about! I doubt the overall height would be more than 4 or 5 inches at the highest point and the rest will be sky. What do you think of that guys? Edit to add: I feel the addition of a backscene will just add a touch of depth instead of the sort of edge of the world situation I have at the moment. Hi Mike, Jason has it right, you don't actually need any, but if you are having some please keep it subtle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Anotheran Posted October 15, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 15, 2014 I like your idea of a small element Mike. Though it does need to be subtle. Reading the site that you referenced does give me confidence. It talks all about how to get it right with low contrast photos fading into the background. To me a back scene should be like a film music score. If you notice the music, then it's not right, but if it's not there you get a nagging feeling in the back of your mind that something is missing. Of course, you could take the approach of just doing that for photos, as you're not exhibiting at a show. I would reference Jason's fantastic Bacup for that... no back scene, but the B&W shots that had the back scene added in Photoshop by AndyY made a brilliant model into something almost indistinguishable from the real thing on the electronic page. But they aren't necessary for the enjoyment of the model in the flesh (not that I've had the pleasure of seeing Bacup in real life). My gut though, which is what I will be trying to do on NE, is to go for a relatively small level of low contrast imagery that ideally won't even be noticed when people look at the layout as a whole! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60091 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 I would say that with Dent, the fell behind the railway is all the backscene that you need; any other added behind it, be it painted or photographic, would detract from the scene. Most viewers will be concentrating on the railway and what is running on it with the fell being in the peripheral view and as such, serving the purpose of a backscene perfectly. Hi Mike As Jason says, in 00, the view beyond the station will be limited with viewers concentrating on the trains. Behind Dent is the big lump of Great Knoutberry Hill. This is a massive convex slope above which is only sky! There is no view beyond it unless you're standing on the opposite side of the dale. It's no place to be especially after wet weather. I walked over it once (never again) from the coal road to Arten Gill looking for the remains of a wartime crash site on top. Didn't find anything but ended up knee deep in peat bogs a couple of times. Alan 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 Hi all, Hopefully this will get a few of you smiling as unfortunately I have not had much chance to do anything this week as yet. Sad and neglected Wd 2-8-0 90445 has an easy run now its almost reached the top of the Long Drag as she ambles along through Dentdale. The Jinty 47394 on a trip working has set back into the lye bye to allow passage of the WD before removing the empty coal wagon from the siding. The sharp eyed may notice the Bothy now has a roof, pics will follow just had no time. The only way I can see the interesting side! Loco's by request! If only it were possible in real life. Jubilee 45562 'ALBERTA' has the assistance of Class 5 45157 'GLASGOW HIGHLANDER' as they crawl through Dent on the 'Up Waverley' following a signal check. How delightful this pairing looks. Brush Type 4 D1942 bursts out of Widdale Tunnel and over the viaduct with a northbound ECS working Both trains shatter the silence as they pass through Dent Helicopter view! The Type 4 pounds north whilst the Waverley remains checked by the outer home. Hope you enjoy! 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Hi all, Hopefully this will get a few of you smiling as unfortunately I have not had much chance to do anything this week as yet. 2011-10-18 20.42.46.jpg Sad and neglected Wd 2-8-0 90445 has an easy run now its almost reached the top of the Long Drag as she ambles along through Dentdale. 2011-10-18 20.43.13.jpg The Jinty 47394 on a trip working has set back into the lye bye to allow passage of the WD before removing the empty coal wagon from the siding. 2011-10-18 20.44.11.jpg The sharp eyed may notice the Bothy now has a roof, pics will follow just had no time. 2011-10-18 20.44.38.jpg The only way I can see the interesting side! 2011-10-18 21.15.21.jpg Loco's by request! If only it were possible in real life. Jubilee 45562 'ALBERTA' has the assistance of Class 5 45157 'GLASGOW HIGHLANDER' as they crawl through Dent on the 'Up Waverley' following a signal check. 2011-10-18 21.15.57.jpg How delightful this pairing looks. 2011-10-18 21.16.29.jpg Brush Type 4 D1942 bursts out of Widdale Tunnel and over the viaduct with a northbound ECS working 2011-10-18 21.17.36.jpg Both trains shatter the silence as they pass through Dent 2011-10-18 21.17.52.jpg Helicopter view! 2011-10-18 21.19.25.jpg The Type 4 pounds north whilst the Waverley remains checked by the outer home. Hope you enjoy! Cheers Mike, that's made my night, I can go to bed now a happy bunny, hahaha Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
emt_911 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Great series of photos again. Looking forward to the photos of the Bothy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock67B Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 The lads above have said it all - beautiful work as ever and I agree on the double-header comment! Kind regards, Jock. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Hi all, Hopefully this will get a few of you smiling as unfortunately I have not had much chance to do anything this week as yet. 2011-10-18 21.15.21.jpg Loco's by request! If only it were possible in real life. Jubilee 45562 'ALBERTA' has the assistance of Class 5 45157 'GLASGOW HIGHLANDER' as they crawl through Dent on the 'Up Waverley' following a signal check. 2011-10-18 21.15.57.jpg How delightful this pairing looks. 2011-10-18 21.16.29.jpg Brush Type 4 D1942 bursts out of Widdale Tunnel and over the viaduct with a northbound ECS working 2011-10-18 21.17.36.jpg Both trains shatter the silence as they pass through Dent 2011-10-18 21.17.52.jpg Helicopter view! 2011-10-18 21.19.25.jpg The Type 4 pounds north whilst the Waverley remains checked by the outer home. Hope you enjoy! Phwoaaaar! (pity that Brush 4 got in the way ) I agree that a Class5 plus Jub is just about one of the most aesthetically pleasing double-headed pairings you can get (provided the Class 5 is leading). The only pairing I saw that 'trumped' it was when 5690 & 1000 teamed up for a couple of S&C runs in the early 1980's. Now that was some eye candy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted October 17, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 17, 2014 Hi Ray, It reversed in from the platform end turnout. I presume that would be allowed if required but willing to learn! Apologies, I'd forgotten that there were two ways in/out of the lye-by. The is no signal off the down line into the siding so I'd guess the move was hand-signalled by the signalman. There may have been a specified (normal) method of entering the siding giving one crossover precedence over the other or one crossover may have been unidirectional only. However, I'd guess that No. 6 crossover at the end of the platform would probably be the preferred way of entering the siding because the tail-lamp would have passed the box as the train came to a stand at the platform so the signalman knew the train was complete. I suspect therefore that the train would normally only drop back far enough into the siding to (just) stop in the rear of No. 7 signal and wait there. This had the advantage that the train was in front of the box where it is less likely to have been forgotten. That doesn't mean that the train couldn't set back further, I just think it would have been unlikely. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 Apologies, I'd forgotten that there were two ways in/out of the lye-by. The is no signal off the down line into the siding so I'd guess the move was hand-signalled by the signalman. There may have been a specified (normal) method of entering the siding giving one crossover precedence over the other or one crossover may have been unidirectional only. However, I'd guess that No. 6 crossover at the end of the platform would probably be the preferred way of entering the siding because the tail-lamp would have passed the box as the train came to a stand at the platform so the signalman knew the train was complete. I suspect therefore that the train would normally only drop back far enough into the siding to (just) stop in the rear of No. 7 signal and wait there. This had the advantage that the train was in front of the box where it is less likely to have been forgotten. That doesn't mean that the train couldn't set back further, I just think it would have been unlikely. Hi Ray, Thanks for the signalling info above, it really is a minefield to the uninitiated! Its one of those subjects that you 'think' you know enough about but when the detail shows itself you realise you only know a fraction! I had noticed that none of the sidings have signalling for trains backing in off the main which surprises me a little but worries me in the fact that the 'Up' is a long way from the box. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted October 17, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 17, 2014 I suspect that an Up train was brought to a stand (or nearly to a stand) at the box, the bobby shouted to the fireman/driver that they were to go "inside" and authorise then to run forward far enough to clear the point. The guard would indicate to the driver when they were clear of the point, the guard would probably do likewise to the signalman who would then change the points and hand signal to the guard to authorise the drive to set back into the siding. I suppose it is equally possible that the starting or section signal would be far enough beyond the points to accommodate the full train, the driver would take the train to the signal, once the guard had confirmed that to the driver (by handsignal) that the train had cleared the points the driver may have used the signal post telephone to relay the message to the signalman and the signalman would then have instructed the driver to set back once the route was set using the same telephone. Both are conjecture on my part. The local working instructions would almost certainly have outlined the exact (official) procedure to be used. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark axlecounter Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Hi Mike just caught up been busy trainning Hellifield but I must say the pics do the layout good. Good to see a black 5 lol. As for signalling Ray is right but the fireman wolud go to the box as the refuge line would be basic. Also if the loco was to go past the section signal then the good old bell code 3-3-2 (shunting into forward section ) wolud be used then 8 bells to cancil it. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted October 18, 2014 Author Share Posted October 18, 2014 Thanks to both Ray and Mark for the above signalling info, this means of course that I will now have to install telephones on the signal posts plus all the associated equipment - more wiring!!! Hahaha I could see the operation on the down being easily done but the distance to the 'Up' crossover was around 30 wagons at say 20ft per wagon is approx 200 yards! Perhaps that led to its early closure. Off to Warrington exhibition this morning (anyone going!), more on the Bothy this weekend guys. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Morning Mike, I've just come on here looking for inspiration and updates, you must have over done it at the Show yesterday, hahhah. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted October 19, 2014 Author Share Posted October 19, 2014 Hi all, To continue the 'Bothy' build.... Here is the shell ready for roofing A couple of views of the roof structure showing the strengthening ribs Next job was to prepare the two chimney stacks, here 4 sections of 'Wills' Dressed Stone is prepared to size The rear face is mitred to achieve a reasonable joint. Two lengths of 2mm Perspex was glued together then the above stone sections bonded to three sides Offer the fourth side up and scrape or file any excess from the mitres to ensure a snug fit Here is the finished stack After positioning and cutting a couple of slots in the roof the stack was inserted and cut to size, the same procedure was followed for the second stack More to follow... 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Thanks Mike, I hadn't realised that you support the stack with the clear plastic, I have tried many times to make chimney stacks from card, balsa, plastic and they NEVER went square, such a simple idea. Now you see the value of YOUR step by step pic's really helpful mate cheers, what time is the next lesson? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted October 19, 2014 Author Share Posted October 19, 2014 Continued....... Laying the 1st rows of 'Slaters' slates and holding in place with some clamps then fixing with Mek-Pak. Note the sacrificial strip to the top which the following row of slates lay's upon giving the slight 'cant' to each row. At the end of the roof you normally require a 1 1/2 slate on the second row in order to stagger the joints, Slaters do not provide these on the sheet so individual 0.020" thick pieces have been cut and added where required At the opposite end the full slate comes in line nicely Dent being Dent and the wild winds would invariably damage some slates so this is represented by a number of small notches removed at random Building up the layers is tedious work The lead flashing around the chimney stacks are self-adhesive labels printed grey and cut as required One side almost complete Both sides now at ridge level, this requires only the slates applying and not the sacrificial backing. The other side The ends will require dressing... More to follow.... 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted October 19, 2014 Author Share Posted October 19, 2014 Continued... Simple trimming of any excess slates done with a craft knife Resulting in a nice neat end I have chosen from 'Wills' Buildings details pack 'A' the plain ridge tiles profile, this requires the peak formed on the roof joint filing flat. Once happy the ridge tile mould can be cut to length and fixed with Mek-Pak Next, three views of the Bothy in place on the layout Hope you like! Sorry but there are no train pictures today as the line has.... a possession on!!! Currently doing some fettling on the pointwork, single-slip in the siding is the most troublesome but I WILL WIN !!! More next week guys. 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) Mike, thanks once again for the step by step pics, its a pleasure to see a CRAFTSMAN at work, I hope Jeff is taking notes as well. Although once Bitton is up and running, I will be modifying the Hornby Dent RTP building on Bitton the plan is to change the windows to the correct pattern and add the canopy. Edited October 19, 2014 by Andrew P 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted October 19, 2014 Author Share Posted October 19, 2014 Mike, thanks once again for the step by step pics, its a pleasure to see a CRAFTSMAN at work, I hope Jeff is taking notes as well. Although once Bitton is up and running, I will be modifying the Hornby Dent RTP building on Bitton the plan is to change the windows to the correct pattern and add the canopy. Hi Andy, Seen that building on a layout at Warrington yesterday, its not a bad rendition of Dent in fact. Bitton style (same as Kirkby Stephen) windows are available as an etched brass component, I saw them at EXPO EM in Manchester, will try to find out who the stall was. Also the canopy was on the model yesterday also but it did have the outer 'storm doors' fitted, they don't need those down south! Always a pleasure to see that idyllic view of Bitton, you must be getting excited mate! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60091 Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Hi Mike Fantastic work on the bothy. It always seemed common sense to build around Perspex especially for station canopies and signal boxes. This method must give much more ridged structures and yet, apart from a couple of modern architectural models, it's one I've never used. The problem for me is cutting the Perspex, especially small pieces. Using a Stanley knife gave a 50% success rate without the Perspex cracking and was at times dangerous with knives sometimes slipping and small pieces of Perspex flying everywhere. Alan 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
emt_911 Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Mike Great to see a craftsman at work. I like the idea of using clear Perspex but have the same problem that Alan does although my cutting success rate is probably a bit lower. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott B Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Stunning Mike. Scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Hi Andy, Seen that building on a layout at Warrington yesterday, its not a bad rendition of Dent in fact. Bitton style (same as Kirkby Stephen) windows are available as an etched brass component, I saw them at EXPO EM in Manchester, will try to find out who the stall was. Also the canopy was on the model yesterday also but it did have the outer 'storm doors' fitted, they don't need those down south! Always a pleasure to see that idyllic view of Bitton, you must be getting excited mate! Thanks Mike, I have noticed that the Chimney Stacks on Bitton are at 90 degrees to the ones on the Hornby model but they can stay as they are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 Hi Mike Fantastic work on the bothy. It always seemed common sense to build around Perspex especially for station canopies and signal boxes. This method must give much more ridged structures and yet, apart from a couple of modern architectural models, it's one I've never used. The problem for me is cutting the Perspex, especially small pieces. Using a Stanley knife gave a 50% success rate without the Perspex cracking and was at times dangerous with knives sometimes slipping and small pieces of Perspex flying everywhere. Alan Hi Alan, (& Duncan) Thanks for the comments guys. Perspex is a real sod to cut I agree, I too have had lucky escapes with a Stanley knife! Luckily I have a bandsaw which I use for this purpose and others of course. The one I have is of a rather good quality medium industrial grade made redundant when I took over my current work premises but there are several 'hobby' grade versions available which are quite cheap and ideal for this type of work. I would advise if you get one to try using the fence and if you find the cut 'wanders' which it usually does then cut the bles*ed stuff by eye and file to a scribed line which is my preferred method. Drilling is done best on a fast speed setting but don't use a cordless driver as these tend to stick as the drill penetrates through which can easily crack the Perspex. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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