Great British Locomotives

[PhilJ W]

Do you think that a partwork consisting of Famous Goods Wagons would sell to the general public?

The short answer is no. But a series of carriages might just make the grade but they would have to be something exotic such as Pullman cars, Inspection saloons, Observation saloons and maybe some Underground stock such as the Q23 car.

[Wolf27]

While I was doing some weathering, I have tried to enhance the GBL Deltic, otherwise unmodified.

image by Shane Wilton, on Flickr

 

(The test didnt work as planned, was trying something using only my iphone)

 

cheers

 

Shane

Edited August 24, 2014 by Wolf27

[railroadbill]

 

Started on first one,  going to stay as 1000, and cut the moulded handrails off the boiler, plus the moulding marks on the boiler top. Obviously going to have to repaint boiler, (or possibly just retouch it) but since the boiler comes off rest of loco, a repaint will be easy after handrails etc. added (only have to mask off the smokebox).

 

The paint finish is good enough imho. However,first query. Does the GBR thread team think that the shade of crimson lake on the model is accurate enough? Looks close to printed patch in "Railway liveries LMS" by Ian Allan but perhaps a bit browner, and looks a browner red than the paint I've used before.

 

Any recommendations   as to a matching brand of paint for the boiler?  Of course if I repainted the whole loco then it would all match, but would be a shame to lose the existing finish.

 

 

Edit:  Just found one answer to my own question!!  An unopened pot of Humbrol acrylic no. 20 which the local model shop sold me a while ago as a good match for crimson lake!  I'll try that tomorrow, see if it matches. Could be in with a chance here.

Edited August 24, 2014 by railroadbill

[Smiffy2]

I suspect we are not thinking along similar lines. I am postulating something more limited in number and specialist for modellers in a similar vein.

I very much doubt the economics would work.

Look at the comments here every time a new r-t-r model is launched, and the number of people who refuse to buy it because the steps are the wrong shape or the clack valves should only be on a version made after 1924. Cheap wagons would be even more badly compromised.

Sales would be in the dozens or hundreds for models where the tooling costs would be in the scores of thousands.

['CHARD]

I don't think Mr & Mrs Public are going to want a line of coke   on their living room mantel.

 

Causes far too much frothing.

[S.A.C Martin]

I very much doubt the economics would work.

Look at the comments here every time a new r-t-r model is launched, and the number of people who refuse to buy it because the steps are the wrong shape or the clack valves should only be on a version made after 1924. Cheap wagons would be even more badly compromised.

Sales would be in the dozens or hundreds for models where the tooling costs would be in the scores of thousands.

 

I think you're basing this on the idea that all part works must be badly done…? If done to a decent moulded standard where things are the correct dimensions and shapes, I think we'd be surprised at the reaction from modellers. Dimensions and shapes being the areas most critically talked about on any model.

 

Having done some research for a group looking at producing a one off model, costs of tooling can be reduced by putting several models or their components into minimal dies. It becomes more economic to design several models sharing certain components too. Costs can be further reduced by plastic types, short life tooling as opposed longer life toolings and by reducing the number of separate parts for fitting together.

 

On the other hand, turn it into a knock down kit and suddenly you remove the assembly stage altogether. Makes it a bit easier to consider a wagon or coach part work.

 

I am not suggesting it would be a big time thing or even mainstream with the public. However I feel there's scope for a gap in the market for products aimed at modellers predominantly. The acid test is making sure the modeller's checklist is done within an inch of its life. Accurate shape and dimensions? Check. Metal wheel sets? Check. NEM close coupling pockets? Check. Making it possible for P4/EM modellers to modify? Check if applicable on the model.

 

Honestly, it's probably more possible and less costly than half the new products which have flooded to market recently.

[S.A.C Martin]

Edit:  Just found one answer to my own question!!  An unopened pot of Humbrol acrylic no. 20 which the local model shop sold me a while ago as a good match for crimson lake!  I'll try that tomorrow, see if it matches. Could be in with a chance here.

 

It could be - I used Humbrol no.20 as a good match for my A4 wheel sets, as below.

 

[railroadbill]

It could be - I used Humbrol no.20 as a good match for my A4 wheel sets, as below.

 

CIMG8418_1.jpg

Ace stuff, thanks for that. Found Humbrol acrylics to be pretty good, really.  Used rail blue and yellow for warning panels on diesels, sprayed ok. (And would spray undiluted but were better thinned down). Also brushes well. 

 

edit for typo

Edited August 24, 2014 by railroadbill

[Smiffy2]

I don't think partworks have to be badly done - some of the French ones are superb. The cars of the 24 heures du Mans and Tintin especially, and others have been very popular - tractors, taxis, firetrucks and so on.

But they were relatively easy shapes - die-cast in the main, and working in areas where finescale standards aren't expected.

 

If you are selling to a mass market you don't want duplication, so making several slightly different models from similar moulds wouldn't help. You want simplicity, 'looks right' and a degree of compromise. Things that some people round here would have an apoplectic fit at the first sight of. In fact, GBL.

 

If there is a huge market for accurate plastic (?) kits of esoteric railway subjects why hasn't someone already done it? Like Airfix? They got out of that niche whilst railway modelling was still booming. I may be wrong but I don't think Dapol have invested in any new moulds for kits. That suggests to me that the economics are all wrong - if you are after cheap and highly accurate/diverse.

 

There are plenty of kits available in niche markets, and plenty of detailing parts for scratch builders. Tougher when you go for locos and carriages, but still possible.

 

I've been trying to work out the economics of scratchbuilding v modern r-t-r v kit building.  I don't think there's much in it. GBL runs at less than 10% of any of them.

[Butler Henderson]

Four in local WHS yesterday which was a bit of a surprise as others have sold out quickly so maybe there are more of these out there which did make me wonder on the wisdom of a Wednesday release and how many people (non modellers)shopping on a Saturday will never have seen them. Even then the fact they were in the bottom of the display meant you had to look for them so the chance of a speculative purchase seems unlikely.

[melmerby]

. However,first query. Does the GBR thread team think that the shade of crimson lake on the model is accurate enough? Looks close to printed patch in "Railway liveries LMS" by Ian Allan but perhaps a bit browner, and looks a browner red than the paint I've used before.

 

I have a copy of that Ian Allan book (in fact the combined big 4 version) by Brian Haresnape and the Crimson Lake patch looks too pinky-red compared to other printed samples I have seen e.g. Essery & Jenkinsons "LMS Locomotives" which has more brown in it.

 

Keith

[Il Grifone]

omis

 

The paint finish is good enough imho. However,first query. Does the GBR thread team think that the shade of crimson lake on the model is accurate enough? Looks close to printed patch in "Railway liveries LMS" by Ian Allan but perhaps a bit browner, and looks a browner red than the paint I've used before.

 

Any recommendations   as to a matching brand of paint for the boiler?  Of course if I repainted the whole loco then it would all match, but would be a shame to lose the existing finish.

 

 

Edit:  Just found one answer to my own question!!  An unopened pot of Humbrol acrylic no. 20 which the local model shop sold me a while ago as a good match for crimson lake!  I'll try that tomorrow, see if it matches. Could be in with a chance here.

 

We're back to the old debate! A coat of varnish (itself liable to colour changes) might well make all the difference. The model is as preserved and kept in good condition or at least she was when I saw her at Derby works many years ago (early sixties) and a matt finish is not really appropriate (ignoring the debate about 'scaling' colours etc.).

 

I have no intention of messing up GBL's finish as it's rather better than I could manage. For that reason, I'm loathe to renumber my 'Coronations'. (Why chose one of the blue ones, there were plenty of red ones to chose from or did she ever run in red livery with a double chimney as portrayed?)

[darrel]

Nice to see you back weatheringman hope your ok

[Horsetan]

...I will post the review of the BR Standard 4 tank next Wednesday but for now i'll just say that its a model worth looking forward to. With only a couple of minor points, such as the oversize speedo drive, the model is one of the best we have seen.

Oh good.....

 

....Lets dispose of this ridiculous idea.

Firstly the costs involved in research and development, design, cutting of tooling, production of the mouldings and marketing will make any such project totally unviable.

It always makes me laugh when 'wish lists' are published  and a person says 'I'll be placing an order for one' - clearly a case of not having a clue about the real world of model production and its costs.

....

 

We continually see 'wish lists' and ideas put forward by modellers who dont understand the whole process or who have a very misguided idea of our hobby's potential.

At the end of the day, the production costs are not the wishlisters' problem and is of no concern to them. They just want the model, and for it to cost as close as possible to nothing.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Horsetan

[Horsetan]

.... not wanting to pay a realistic price!.

 

 

Realistic prices are probably what mainland Europe (and others) pay for their HO models and kits. Imagine the stink over here if those levels were ever imposed on "OO".

 

Oh wait....hang on.....

[S.A.C Martin]

Hi,

Lets dispose of this ridiculous idea.

Firstly the costs involved in research and development, design, cutting of tooling, production of the mouldings and marketing will make any such project totally unviable.

It always makes me laugh when 'wish lists' are published  and a person says 'I'll be placing an order for one' - clearly a case of not having a clue about the real world of model production and its costs....

...We continually see 'wish lists' and ideas put forward by modellers who dont understand the whole process or who have a very misguided idea of our hobby's potential.

 

I have of course, PM'd my own views but I am disappointed at the manner and tone of the post. I shall think twice about offering up any view in future on the GBL thread.

[Smiffy2]

I agree with all you've said, WM. In fact, in brief, I already said it! I wish there was more realism about the economics of the hobby.

[Poor Old Bruce]

To TheWeatheringMan - Nil illegitimi carborundum.

 

I have of course, PM'd my own views but I am disappointed at the manner and tone of the post. I shall think twice about offering up any view in future on the GBL thread.

 

As I've said before, you should always be tollerant of someone who disagrees with you, you must remember that they have a right to their ridiculous opinion. That works both ways, there's no need to 'have a mardy'.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Poor Old Bruce

[Horsetan]

.... I am disappointed at the manner and tone of the post.....

 

Not the first time this has happened but don't forget, Simon, that some of your own posts in the past have equally upset or disappointed quite a few people.....

 

Me? I just play safe and upset everyone! 

[S.A.C Martin]

As I've said before, you should always be tollerant of someone who disagrees with you, you must remember that they have a right to their ridiculous opinion. That works both ways, there's no need to 'have a mardy'.

 

It it not so much the disagreement but the manner in which such disagreement is presented. I appear to have bought the brunt of much of the criticism on behalf of wishlisters (!) which given my own modelling credentials seems a trifle unwarranted. It was certainly not presented in a particularly respectful manner.

 

I have always been happy to be corrected online and on RMweb most definitely but just once I would like to see criticism and debate presented in a constructive fashion by all sides and not just the least vocal side.

[S.A.C Martin]

Not the first time this has happened but don't forget, Simon, that some of your own posts in the past have equally upset or disappointed quite a few people.....

 

We do live, learn, and grow Ivan. Sometimes for the better, sometimes not. I'd like to think my posting today is of a higher quality than when I initially joined RMweb.

 

Since I can see the odds stacking against me further, I will withdraw. I have no wish to comment further.

[Londontram]

Is now the right time to post my wish list?

[46256]

Dear all back on topic any idea what's coming after the std tank?

[TheWeatheringMan]

Dear all back on topic any idea what's coming after the std tank?

Hi,

As we have seen there is much speculation over this.

The answer is 'yes' but not able to say at the moment.

However, I think whats happening will as usual please some and dissapoint others.

We will be seeing a model or two that will be of a good standard but at least one that will 'plumb the depths' yet again.

More over the comming weeks.

Regards

[Londontram]

Dear all back on topic any idea what's coming after the std tank?

I think Smiffy2 had a list but he hasn't posted it for ages