Pencarrow: nothing to see, move along please.

[Donw]

Will the DC/DCC switch be somewhere away from the main control board, such as in a lockable box under the layout ?

 

It might also be prudent (may be not if you know what you're doing) to have an indicator light on the control panel showing which mode is switched in.

 

I have to say that I consider driving via DC as being similar to a signal controlled environment - locos can only be moved when the correct signal / ground signal (equating to a section on the model even if not signalled) has been set. The ability to move any loco, anywhere that DCC provides quite frankly scares me - select the wrong loco address and something unseen can drive through points or off the end of a fy.

 

Obviously you have never seen someone turning the controller up to get the loco moving totally unaware that behind them another loco that has been left switched to the same controller is slowly pushing wagons off the end of the baseboard. If section switches were treated as a signalman does signals and return them when the move is done it would be ok but most operators I have seen leave them switched on unless they need to stop something moving.

True with DCC you can select the wrong loco. With Diseasels or steam with working lights you can tell when a loco has been selected. If you have sound a quick toot before moving will check you have the right loco.

 

There was also a case on one of Alan Brackenborough afternoon meets. Alan left me to run a selection of trains as it was quite busy. Someone took control of a section of the main line by the fiddle yard to test his loco which strayed out of that section into one under my control I quickly ran the loco off and out of the way so the parade of trains could continue. If you have two operators running a DC layout it is easy for one loco to become controlled by the other operator who can be unaware of the fact.

 

Neither system is better neither is perfect. As Mike says DCC is rather like the real thing (at least in steam days) where the driver had to obey the signals but could drive through them if he didn't pay attention.

Don

[N15class]

I will be using pure DC on my layout. I honestly can't see the benefit of DCC on a BLT even in O. On an exhibition layout or roundy roundy, it is good as you need more than one thing happening at a time. At the most there is two locos on the layout. There is no less wiring on either, although DCC seems to be sold as a 2 wire system.

 

This is just my own personal view. I also find sound on layouts very distracting, often too loud.

[N15class]

Anyway Chris you seem to be making good progress. It must be great having a distraction away from GrrrWR rolling stock that does not like being built.

[Donw]

I will be using pure DC on my layout. I honestly can't see the benefit of DCC on a BLT even in O. On an exhibition layout or roundy roundy, it is good as you need more than one thing happening at a time. At the most there is two locos on the layout. There is no less wiring on either, although DCC seems to be sold as a 2 wire system.

 

This is just my own personal view. I also find sound on layouts very distracting, often too loud.

 

Nothing wrong with using DC if that is your choice. Have you tried DCC at all? Wired just for DCC you have just the local droppers connecting to bus bars or a local distribution point. With just a pair of wires for each power district back to the DCC box and a control bus for the controller sockets unless you opt for wireless controllers it can be a big saving on a large layout. Not probably enough to offset the extra for DCC but a lot simpler to install.

On small layouts it is also useful as it very much simplifies being able to have more than one loco active in a small area. If you plan to work the station  'one engine in steam' DCC has little to offer or if you are happy with juggling section switches to ensure only the correct loco moves again DCC has little to offer.

I rather agree with the comment that often the sound is too loud it can be turned down. I also think on layouts where there are a lot of locos running it can become a cacophony. On a simple layout with only one or two moving at once it can be enjoyable.

Don 

[wagonbasher]

Nothing wrong with using DC if that is your choice. Have you tried DCC at all? Wired just for DCC you have just the local droppers connecting to bus bars or a local distribution point. With just a pair of wires for each power district back to the DCC box and a control bus for the controller sockets unless you opt for wireless controllers it can be a big saving on a large layout. Not probably enough to offset the extra for DCC but a lot simpler to install.

On small layouts it is also useful as it very much simplifies being able to have more than one loco active in a small area. If you plan to work the station 'one engine in steam' DCC has little to offer or if you are happy with juggling section switches to ensure only the correct loco moves again DCC has little to offer.

I rather agree with the comment that often the sound is too loud it can be turned down. I also think on layouts where there are a lot of locos running it can become a cacophony. On a simple layout with only one or two moving at once it can be enjoyable.

Don

 

If you are operating a small shunting layout at a show sound seams to fill in the gaps.

 

For example if I buffer a loco up to a wagon I wait whilst I imagine the shunter ducks under the buffers and couples up. With sound, the viewers appears content to wait and watch but without sound they look at you to see what you are up to, has it failed, are you leaving it there etc. from my perspective nothing has changed but the viewers appear more engaged.

 

Andy

[2ManySpams]

Off to Harlows timber merchants shortly with the timber order for the fourth scenic board. 

 

 

For construction into this:

 

[2ManySpams]

I do like your limited edition chimney.

 

Thanks Rob - sadly no chance of another one from that source (not that I'd ever build another 1366 kit!).

[2ManySpams]

. It should be OK as long as the plugs and switches are up to the possible current draw of all those sound fitted MN & WC locos.

 Funny you should say that...

[2ManySpams]

In view of point 2 above, if you have a DCC that will handle non-decoder-fitted locos, I'd stand by my original suggestion of having at least one "isolate-able" siding (or end thereof) in DCC mode

 

Can't disagree with your other preferences, if you want cab control & DC, it makes sense to have a mimic diagram, but it adds a fair chunk of work. I've chosen to go 110% DCC but this is a personal decision, of course. Even so, wiring is not trivial!

 

Best

Simon

 

Yes, keen still to have a mimic diagram, not bothered about the extra wiring - I'm in no rush!

 

I'm not a big fan of push button DCC controllers and get quite fed up constantly typing loco addresses - I currently have a NCE powercab and have experienced the joys of the similar Gaugemaster unit. So the idea of also typing in turnout addresses leaves me stone cold. I much prefer the idea of switches or levers for turnout and signal actuation.

 

My eventual aim, when technology catches up (at a reasonable price) is to go for one of the touch screen controller options. 

[2ManySpams]

If you look at the diagram the top switch that handles the track section is a ON-OFF-ON so their can be total isolation of any section whether you are using DC or DCC

 

With regards running DC locos on a DCC system I thought that this was being phased out

 

It's to easy to mistakenly switch that section that's holding the DC loco on, and the first sign of trouble will be the loco letting the smoke out, when the layouts in DCC mode

 

Geoff

 

Having had several days to think about this and consider the various opinions, I'm sticking with the original plan. Yes it is a little more work. Yes I may only use the DC option once in a blue moon. But the solution gives me the flexibility and resilience that I;m after. With children in the house that like to play with switches I get nervous about having a DC loco sitting on an isolated siding on a layout running DCC. Ooops, sorry, puff of smoke is a scenario I can see happening there. I can see the DC/DCC master switch being tucked away somewhere safe!

 

Thanks for the wire that arrived Thursday - much appreciated. 

[2ManySpams]

I note the two goods sidings top right of your diagram are not wired with isolation gaps and separate feeds to the sidings. This is fine operationally but if a sound equiped loco is parked there and the point switched against it any sounds such as a loco ticking over will cease. As I say no problem operationally but worth clarifying as you could end up searching for a problem if you were not aware.

 

One other thing I cannot remember what you are doing about the fy. Do remember that the locos have to be stopped from the DCC control. If stopped by disconnecting say a cassette when reconnected it will remember the speed and direction it was travelling in from before and promptly set off. I purposely tried and the memory had bee retained for a month so I assume it will be held until changed. Apart from that the beauty of DCC is the absence of the need to thick about section switches. Locos can be stopped anywhere and will not move because someone has thrown the wrong switch or forgotten it was there. Only a deliberate instruction will move the loco. It is of course possible if you had say two Well Tanks to get confused about which one you are trying to move and be issuing commands to the other.

 

Don

 

Thanks Don

 

In the diagram the right-hand 1.3m is the fiddleyard. Goods siding 4 is in the fiddle from midway through the point. The best way to mimic the two sidings going off there was to have two sidings in the fiddle. In theory stock on those lines can be shunted and not subject to hand of god. 

 

I'm wiring the turnouts in electrofrog style and each route will be live (unless isolated on the panel). As such the sound will stay on regardless of how the point is set. 

 

The Wadebridge and Wenford lines will use cassettes in the fiddle. Not my favourite option but with limited space and short trains it seems a sensible compromise for home use. Chaz gets on with them fine on his exhibition layout. 

[Donw]

Thanks Don

 

In the diagram the right-hand 1.3m is the fiddleyard. Goods siding 4 is in the fiddle from midway through the point. The best way to mimic the two sidings going off their was to have two sidings in the fiddle. In theory stock on those lines can be shunted and not subject to hand of god. 

 

I'm wiring the turnouts in electrofrog style and each route will be live (unless isolated on the panel). As such the sound will stay on regardless of how the point is set. 

 

The Wadebridge and Wenford lines will use cassettes in the fiddle. Not my favourite option but with limited space and short trains it seems a sensible compromise for home use. Chaz gets on with them fine on his exhibition layout. 

 

I had missed the fact that the sidings were mostly in the fiddleyard. I wasn't trying to put you off cassettes. I used them myself. Rather I was pointing out some of the changes in thinking that help with DCC. When first testing DCC I had been running one loco and took it off to run another. When I placed it back on the track despite not having re-selected the loco I was surprised to find it moving. I realised that I had not turned the speed right down previously and it had remembered that. The same thing can happen with dc if you have left the controller partly turned up and throw a section switch connecting a loco. It was the fact that the decoder will remember the last instruction it was given much better than I can.

Don

[Simond]

Hi Chris,

 

I wholeheartedly agree that button prodding for turnouts and signals is a non-starter. Don't like that at all! I like the Cobalt levers, but refuse to countenance their ideas of pricing, so have used miniature toggle switches in a "lever frame" for that. I may do something more prototypical for the next phase of PD but please don't hold your breath. Arduinos and interlocking...

 

I have Lenz control gear. There is a "stack" of loco addresses on each controller, which you can flick through, select, and drive. I have a red Roco Multimaus which seems the best general purpose controller for this, but the LH100 has more features, and is better for programming locos, so is the default choice. I'm not a fan of the NCE kit.

 

Best

Simon

[2ManySpams]

The NCE kit was a second hand stop gap and will be changed at some point!

 

I'm going to use tortoise point motors for the turnouts. They seem bombproof and dependable. I may play again with servos for the signals but my experiences with them so far haven't been that favourable. They seem prone to forget settings and pick up stray signals. Still worth a second attempt?

[gwrrob]

Off to Harlows timber merchants shortly with the timber order for the fourth scenic board. 

 

ScreenHunter_417 Nov. 26 07.10.jpg

 

For construction into this:

 

ScreenHunter_418 Nov. 26 07.12.jpg

 

Do they make a charge per cut on that wood Chris ?

[Simond]

Hi Chris,

 

Re servos, I've heard varying reports, not had enough personal experience to offer any confident guidance, but keeping the wire between the servo and its driver very short (say the 6" or so that they're supplied with) seems sensible. Jon F uses servos pretty much universally for his signals, as does the Lime St crew. Lots of experience there!

 

Re tortoises, slow, steady & reliable. I've used them under PD Loco, very satisfactory, as they were on the GWR, & Ken Stansfield's Swanage. They are pricy, of course, but you only fit them once... not sure how many you'll need, but if servos & associated gubbins were half the price, you'd probably only save enough for a wagon, maybe a coach kit.

 

Best

Simon

[durham light infantry]

Off to Harlows timber merchants shortly with the timber order for the fourth scenic board. 

 

ScreenHunter_417 Nov. 26 07.10.jpg

 

For construction into this:

 

ScreenHunter_418 Nov. 26 07.12.jpg

Have you allowed for the thickness of the blade doing the cutting?

 

Mike

[2ManySpams]

Do they make a charge per cut on that wood Chris ?

 

Nope!

Have you allowed for the thickness of the blade doing the cutting?

 

Mike

 

Yup

[Indomitable026]

Off to Harlows timber merchants shortly with the timber order for the fourth scenic board. 

 

ScreenHunter_417 Nov. 26 07.10.jpg

 

For construction into this:

 

ScreenHunter_418 Nov. 26 07.12.jpg

 

There's something about a Saturday morning trip to a wood yard, it means something interesting is on.

 

Get enough wood for a 5th scenic board...

[2ManySpams]

There's something about a Saturday morning trip to a wood yard, it means something interesting is on.

 

Get enough wood for a 5th scenic board...

 

And a bigger room...

[2ManySpams]

Ok  this is a small extract from an August 1960 photo of Padstow. As I'm building track at the moment the turnout caught my eye.

 

 

Anyone spot what's strange about it?

[Indomitable026]

Ok  this is a small extract from a late 50s photo of Padstow. As I'm building track at the moment the turnout caught my eye.

 

tmp_18616-rps20161126_1303091178458206.jpg

 

Anyone spot what's strange about it?

 

The crossings got a switching wing rails on it?

 

That needs modelling.

[2ManySpams]

The crossings got a switching wing rails on it?

 

That needs modelling.

 

Not seen that before. Don't quite understand the need though.

[Indomitable026]

Not seen that before. Don't quite understand the need though.

 

Experiment in terms of less ware? no wheels bouncing from the wing rail to the crossing nose? 

 

I wonder if such an arrangement actually warrants the outside check rails as their primary job is to stop wheels hitting the vee or going up the other way?

 

Just my thoughts...

[Geoff Cook]

Not seen that before. Don't quite understand the need though.

 

I thought it was like a switched diamond but now having another look it only appears on one side of the crossing

 

Geoff