railroadbill Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 One thing on the Heljan stand that hasn't been mentioned yet (I think) is the Lynton and Barnstable 2-6-2 which had a poster up about it, so looks like development is on-going. Impressed by the L&B stock on the Peco stand, hadn't seen that "in the flesh" before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 And the Danish IC3 Also the Danish MO * This refers to railcars made by Heljan, didn't get all the original post quoted I'm afraid. Crikey, missed out the MS (original Lyntog) plus the little MF and ME wooden railcars plus skinnebusse! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 I'm a bit surprised that Peco didn't just produce a body and buy in or contract for a suitable chassis for the L & B loco. This would give them control over future livery and name releases.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 I'm a bit surprised that Peco didn't just produce a body and buy in or contract for a suitable chassis for the L & B loco. This would give them control over future livery and name releases.... Heljan have a link to Peco on their Danish web site which lists Peco products for sale through them (actually starts with Peco's narrow gauge stuff). At a suitable price in krone of course..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 For those that want the RE sound, they will still be able to fit into the Heljan model but as sound is all about the files not the model, we will have to wait and see if the RE chip is better or the same as sayHowes orLegomanbiffo. Don't know about Legomanbiffo sounds, but the RE sound chip produced for the Class 47 seems to be better than anything else I have ever heard. That said, I have some fairly old Howes chips in my 33's and 73's, and I understand these have improved since then, so who knows. I am not technically competent on chips (peas are more my forte) but does a 27 way chip allow better / more sounds, than the standard 8 way (or whatever)? Or does it make no difference other than the number of quick access functions? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerrySVR Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 For what its worth Heljan confirmed the AEC railcar should be with us in the next couple of months and the Pannier in 2015. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjnewitt Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Hi Justin, Some very good points well made and not just restricted to the Diesel/Electric models. A recent posting of the CAD images for the O2/3 and O2/4 over on the LNER forum have highlighted just one of the issues you raise with the cab spectacle plate window. http://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8013&p=93276#p93213 I have the belief that this mistake is nothing more than lack of research as it is pretty easy to establish from photos what is right if you look a bit closer. Drawings are also available to view at the NRM if there is still any doubt but perhaps this now hinges on the cost aspects that you illude to. I'm hoping this will be put right but the comment has been made that the CAD models have been sent for preliminary tooling manufacture and we have to wait 6 months. What disappoints me is that if I can tell what is right from a study of photos off the web then it isn't really that difficult to get it right is it? Morgan Hi Morgan, It will be interesting to see if they take on board any of the constructive feedback given and whether the CADs are still works in prgress or what is going to be put into production. I do wonder who exactly draws up the 3D CAD files at times and whether they have any knowledge or interest in railways. I agree that it shouldn't be difficult to get these things right but it somehow seems to be in practise! It will also be interesting to see what they make of the chassis for the 2-8-0s. The Teddy Bear's, which in model terms is essentially a steam loco chassis, is very sloppy. Perhaps the most disapointing thing to me is that there are a load of people on various forums who will let you know what's wrong with a drawing very quickly and offer useful advice just in the hope of getting a decent model and yet most of the time they are bypassed or simply ignored. It doesn't make sense to me at all. Justin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted November 24, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 24, 2013 and the Pannier in 2015. Yes and it will be in 1930's Great Western green but no number has been chosen yet.No price given either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Moss Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Lets not forget that the class 14, class 28, class 76 and class 77 were commissions by outside companies, therefore any errors are the fault of the comissioners as they signed off the EP's as being correct and fit for production. Heljan simply produced them......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Don't know about Legomanbiffo sounds, but the RE sound chip produced for the Class 47 seems to be better than anything else I have ever heard. That said, I have some fairly old Howes chips in my 33's and 73's, and I understand these have improved since then, so who knows. I am not technically competent on chips (peas are more my forte) but does a 27 way chip allow better / more sounds, than the standard 8 way (or whatever)? Or does it make no difference other than the number of quick access functions? Sound chips are a bit like all electronics, various manufacturers, all with subtle qualities better or worse than others but ultimately, all quickly superseded by a newer product. The older chips were normally loksound 3.5s with I think a 60 second long sound file and limited playability. These appeared from Howes, SWD etc and were in the original Bachmann locos. Newer chips are loksound 4 and Zimo. Both have longer recordings and much more variability in how they can be set up and used. New retailers such as Legomanbiffo (via DC kits), RE and to some degree SWD and Howes ( there are others just no tones that I have used) have taken these new chips and written new files to make use of their capabilities. Some of the results are outstanding with the RE Zimo class 47 being widely acclaimed but equally so are many of Legomanbiffos Loksound chips. Some clever people (not me) even write their own sound files. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjnewitt Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Lets not forget that the class 14, class 28, class 76 and class 77 were commissions by outside companies, therefore any errors are the fault of the comissioners as they signed off the EP's as being correct and fit for production. Heljan simply produced them......... Errors in the CAD drawings are down to the people who drew them up, in these cases Heljan. We do not know the details of these comissioning arrangements, they may have been left with little realistic choice in signing off on the EPs as changes may have been made prohibitively expensive or have resulted in long delays as production slots may have been missed. We're back to building down to a price again. The models should have been right to begin with and as Heljan produced them they should be resposible for that. Justin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 ....it must be a difficult concept for them to release fewer but more accurate models. Mr Shron probably won't have the same issues. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Lets not forget that the class 14, class 28, class 76 and class 77 were commissions by outside companies, therefore any errors are the fault of the comissioners as they signed off the EP's as being correct and fit for production. Heljan simply produced them......... Which is fine....until you put your CAD drawings out in the open for a free appraisal by knowledgeable modelmakers, who point out in the sincerest of methods that there is an issue, so you take that back to your manufacturer, only to be told that it is too late/expensive/not worth making the changes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Accurascale Fran Posted November 25, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2013 Errors in the CAD drawings are down to the people who drew them up, in these cases Heljan. We do not know the details of these comissioning arrangements. Justin I'm sorry, but your second sentence negates your first. So Heljan did the CAD, but we don't know if they did or not? I guess you'll just say I'm putting words in your mouth again but that doesn't make sense to me. Anyway, while I'm starting to sound like a Heljan apologist (I am not btw, I just think they have strengths and weaknesses like all other manufacturers) I believe a system is only as good as the information that's fed into it. In this situation of shop commissions we do not know how good the reference material is/was, whose responsibility research was and I would hope that while the CAD drawer might not have the expert knowledge of the prototype that some here might have that there was someone overseeing the project that would. I would hope that they would get someone who knows the prototype inside out (and is highly regarded, like the man who helped Bachmann and Rails do the LMS diesels, not some persona on a forum who shouts loudest but has not got the CV to back it up) to run the eye over it and sign off. After all, if some internet persona says 'that's wrong' and is mistaken themselves, then wouldn't the manufacturer look even more stupid? We all know that Heljan has ignored CAD feedback before, some from knowledgeable people too. However, this seems to have changed with the likes of Brush Veteran on board and the 16 is a testament to that. The new unrefurb Baby Deltics look like they may be backing that argument too. However, I'm sure someone will be along to tell me that I'm wrong on that score too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 ... It will also be interesting to see what they make of the chassis for the 2-8-0s. The Teddy Bear's, which in model terms is essentially a steam loco chassis, is very sloppy... Never forget, Heljan is an European HO outfit, and that's going to inform their design decisions. European HO set track still has very small radius curves in many systems. (Superior exterior appearance and mechanisms as compared to OO long the norm; but more toy-townish set track persists. Go figure!) If a chassis is sloppy side to side, surely this is a fault on the right side? A little work to control or limit the sideplay to just what is required for the owner's layout, secures better running appearance. I end up making this sort of alteration on many models, after some operation to see what the dynamic performance is like. Sometimes all it needs are the pick up wipers bending outward to increase the centering force; sometimes a wheelset or two needs washers to be kept near centred at all times for the optimum result. Yet to find any hard and fast predictive rule for set up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjnewitt Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I'm sorry, but your second sentence negates your first. So Heljan did the CAD, but we don't know if they did or not? I guess you'll just say I'm putting words in your mouth again but that doesn't make sense to me. Appologies for my poor phrasing. There should be a line between the first and second sentences and a comma at the end of the second. I'll amend my posting and hopefully it will make more sense to you. Never forget, Heljan is an European HO outfit, and that's going to inform their design decisions. European HO set track still has very small radius curves in many systems. (Superior exterior appearance and mechanisms as compared to OO long the norm; but more toy-townish set track persists. Go figure!) If a chassis is sloppy side to side, surely this is a fault on the right side? A little work to control or limit the sideplay to just what is required for the owner's layout, secures better running appearance. I end up making this sort of alteration on many models, after some operation to see what the dynamic performance is like. Sometimes all it needs are the pick up wipers bending outward to increase the centering force; sometimes a wheelset or two needs washers to be kept near centred at all times for the optimum result. Yet to find any hard and fast predictive rule for set up. Side to side (where necessary) and up and down (a bit) are fine shouldn't the axles remain parallel to each other? Those in the class 14 didn't. Justin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
truffy Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 The MR/LT Bo-Bo electric could be of interest. I vaguely recall seeing this loco when I were a mere slip of a lad, but I can't for the life of me think where. Anyhow, she's unusual and historic, which is enough for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 The MR/LT Bo-Bo electric could be of interest. I vaguely recall seeing this loco when I were a mere slip of a lad, but I can't for the life of me think where. Anyhow, she's unusual and historic, which is enough for me. Not being familiar with RTR product cycles, what are the best guesses as to when the BoBo is likely to hit the shelves? Phil Radley has already stopped offering his kit! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45609 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 My post #195 has been amended in light of new information. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 25, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2013 Not being familiar with RTR product cycles, what are the best guesses as to when the BoBo is likely to hit the shelves? Phil Radley has already stopped offering his kit! I would think that if it's here before 2015 it will be a bonus - but you never know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 ...Side to side (where necessary) and up and down (a bit) are fine shouldn't the axles remain parallel to each other? Those in the class 14 didn't... Hope you sent that back. The only example I have had hands on, (not mine) I followed an excellent thread on here with pertinent advice on limiting sideplay (of the flycrank shaft especially) and ensuring the keeper plate wasn't screwed on tight. That completely fixed the less than smooth starts and stops and a slight once per rotation hesitation in one direction. The mech layout of the Garratt motor units seen in photos is recognisably similar to that in the class 14; and that was a smooth motor and driveline combination. If there is anything much amiss, a twin chassis unit will surface the problems in half the time... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Did anyone take any pictures of the Heljan stand? Has any of the display material subsequently been published? What was the surprise loco? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted November 26, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 26, 2013 AFAIK retooled class 33 Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjnewitt Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Hope you sent that back. No I gave it a new chassis but I would have done this whatever had turned up from Hattons. Justin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted November 27, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 27, 2013 Itemn 3412 class 33/0 green syp is not listed by retailers. What am I missing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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