Sheffield Exchange, Toy trains, music and fun!

[Clive Mortimore]

Good news on the Loco Lift matey, and glad you had a good bit of a play as well.

 

You could do with one of them there Heated Builders Jackets

https://www.google.co.uk/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=lW2hWP6jIbL38Af7hK-QBA&gws_rd=ssl#q=heated+jackets+mens&tbm=shop&spd=12097403849873973204

Hi Andy

 

The modified loco lift works a treat, photos one day.

 

As for a heated jacket sounds great, but I could always put the heater on, just I knew I would only be out for about an hour and it takes over an hour for the heater to start to take the chill out the air. Or I could put on a coat.

 

As for the play, I only had one running problem. My class 104 4 car unit was stalling so I gave it a bit of a spin up and down the layout, and it derailed at speed running wrong road. The points were working very well after I had a wiggle and oil up of the point motors last time I was out in the manshed.

[Clive Mortimore]

4th night this week I have been out to the manshed driving toy trains, it is getting addictive. For some reason tonight the point motors were not throwing the points every time, again. They seem to be firing underneath the baseboard but no movement on top. The point springs are not too tight. I may replace the Seep motors with something else.

 

I have now shortened two Peco loco lifts.

 

As for this operating session I have 12 trains made up as follows, 3 x loco hauled passenger, 1 x parcels train, 1 x 4 car DMU, 2 x 2+ 2 car DMUs, 4 x 2+ 3 car DMUS and 1 3 car DMU. This means when the fiddle yard is full there is at least one train in the station, or when the station is full there are two free sidings in the fiddle yard. I also have a single diesel parcels car. The loco hauled trains and parcels train normally have the loco on the loco siding take the train out and the one that hauled it in then moves on to the loco siding awaiting its next duty. Sometimes I send a loco from the loco shed (fiddle yard) and the ex-train loco makes its way to the loco shed not the siding when free.

 

The trains formed of two units don't always run in as full trains, I will often run just one unit in, isolating the other one on the traverser. I do this to represent the quieter periods.

 

The parcels unit is not allocated a line in the fiddle yard normally. It is placed on the track on what will be the little bit of non scenic track leading to the fiddle yard and ran in when it is its turn. When it is in the station I only run 2, 3 or 4 car DMUs in to the platform it is occupying, any thing longer and the end coaches overhang the platforms. I did use the loco sat in the siding to shunt the last van off the parcels train into another platform, then ran the parcels unit to the same platform. When it departed it had a van as tail traffic. I have also ran the parcels unit in as the lead vehicle with another DMU, On arrival the two were uncoupled and the DMU departed without the parcels unit. It really does add a variety to the in and out of the other trains.

[westerner]

Interesting Clive, it's always good to read how other people operate their layouts.

I think I will have to have another look at my Wencombe timetable. It needs some slight adjustment to make it work for Kingsbridge.

[Andrew P]

4th night this week I have been out to the manshed driving toy trains, it is getting addictive. For some reason tonight the point motors were not throwing the points every time, again. They seem to be firing underneath the baseboard but no movement on top. The point springs are not too tight. I may replace the Seep motors with something else.

 

I have now shortened two Peco loco lifts.

 

As for this operating session I have 12 trains made up as follows, 3 x loco hauled passenger, 1 x parcels train, 1 x 4 car DMU, 2 x 2+ 2 car DMUs, 4 x 2+ 3 car DMUS and 1 3 car DMU. This means when the fiddle yard is full there is at least one train in the station, or when the station is full there are two free sidings in the fiddle yard. I also have a single diesel parcels car. The loco hauled trains and parcels train normally have the loco on the loco siding take the train out and the one that hauled it in then moves on to the loco siding awaiting its next duty. Sometimes I send a loco from the loco shed (fiddle yard) and the ex-train loco makes its way to the loco shed not the siding when free.

 

The trains formed of two units don't always run in as full trains, I will often run just one unit in, isolating the other one on the traverser. I do this to represent the quieter periods.

 

The parcels unit is not allocated a line in the fiddle yard normally. It is placed on the track on what will be the little bit of non scenic track leading to the fiddle yard and ran in when it is its turn. When it is in the station I only run 2, 3 or 4 car DMUs in to the platform it is occupying, any thing longer and the end coaches overhang the platforms. I did use the loco sat in the siding to shunt the last van off the parcels train into another platform, then ran the parcels unit to the same platform. When it departed it had a van as tail traffic. I have also ran the parcels unit in as the lead vehicle with another DMU, On arrival the two were uncoupled and the DMU departed without the parcels unit. It really does add a variety to the in and out of the other trains.

Morning Clive of Essex, I had that problem with some Seep Motors a couple of years ago, it sounds like it's fired, and put your finger on it, and it feels like it's fired but seems to return from whence it came.

 

I replaced mine and have had no problems with the last lot on Pencarne.

 

Glad to see your Playing        WHOOPS Operating mate 

[Clive Mortimore]

Morning Clive of Essex, I had that problem with some Seep Motors a couple of years ago, it sounds like it's fired, and put your finger on it, and it feels like it's fired but seems to return from whence it came.

 

I replaced mine and have had no problems with the last lot on Pencarne.

 

Glad to see your Playing        WHOOPS Operating mate 

Playing and having fun :sungum:

 

 

Not really aloud as this is an adult hobby which is meant to improve your skills and knowledge.

[richard i]

Playing and having fun :sungum:

 

 

Not really aloud as this is an adult hobby which is meant to improve your skills and knowledge.

We have to be quiet? Is that because when ever we start to enjoy ourselves the other half worries we do not have enough to do and find us another job.

[Andrew P]

Playing and having fun :sungum:

 

 

Not really aloud as this is an adult hobby which is meant to improve your skills and knowledge.

Good Man,    ENJOY.

[Clive Mortimore]

We have to be quiet? Is that because when ever we start to enjoy ourselves the other half worries we do not have enough to do and find us another job.

Hi Richard

 

She has enough lined up for me to do. See faceache for my latest problem.

[richard i]

Hi Richard

 

She has enough lined up for me to do. See faceache for my latest problem.

I know and I feel for you, I was playing with the spelling of aloud/ allowed. Insert Smiley face.

Richard

[Clive Mortimore]

While I was out with my dogs this evening I was pondering the following.

 

Steam locos look naff without displaying the train headcode.

 

Diesel locos and DMUs look naff displaying the wrong headcodes.

 

The rear of trains without a tail lamp look naff.

 

Now Sheffield Exchange is a terminus which posses a slight problem. It is fiddly enough trying to get in to uncouple the loco from its train, I still haven't sorted out magnetic uncouplers. To try and change the lamps on the locos will be a nightmare, so I propose that I will have fixed lamps both ends on the locos, wrong but when viewing a train one normally does so from the front. Same goes with my hauled coaches in respect of their tail lamps, they will run with a fixed lamp each end. DMUs will not have a tail lamp. They should but a fixed one on the front when running the opposite way will look even more wrong.

 

The BIG QUESTION is will having fixed loco lamps and train tail lamps each end look too wrong?

 

If so would not having lamps at all look better or worse?

 

Thankfully I don't need many headcode variations, as a passenger station codes A or 1 for the few through portions of express trains will be needed. Most will be B or 2 for the local trains which will be the majority. There will be a small number of C or 3 headcodes covering both empty stock and parcels. Some locos will carry the light engine code or in the case of the diesels 0, these will be the ones that will trundle to and from the fiddle yard and do not use the loco siding. For the locos and DMUs with four figure headcode boxes the destination or second figure will be either a G for trains originating from the Eastern Region and an E from the LMR and NER. Trains departing will have a D for the Doncaster area or P for Grimsby and Cleethorpes where many of the ER trains are destined to go and there will be a few trains pointing towards the fiddle yard with G headcodes for places within the Sheffield district like Barnsley.  N for the NER trains and M for the LMR which makes life quite easy. There will be a couple of locos earmarked for hauling the two through portions for the WR and SR expresses and they will have a V and an O respectfully. Many local trains used the last two numbers for the route and destination, I have some old Ian Allan headcode books so will work out these numbers from those books, possibly using any blanks or repeat ones that do not go anywhere near Sheffield and the destination. Sheffield Exchange is after all a made up station and cannot have trains that are either destined for Victoria or Midland. 

 

With DMUs fitted with 2 figure heacodes the ER used the numerical train class, i.e. 2 for ordinary passenger and then the destination letter, which will be G, D or P depending on where they are going.  The LMR and NER used the old letter train classification and a destination number, so most train will have a B letter with an appropriate number. Again I will use the Ian Allan headcode books to help me.

 

All DMUs will have Sheffield on one end ( facing the station) and matching the headcode a suitable destination at the other (facing the fiddle yard). If I ever get to show this layout I will endeavor to make sure all trains are facing the correct way displaying their headcodes and destination blinds. 

Edited February 21, 2017 by Clive Mortimore

[Kelly]

You know what a mutual friend of ours would say to a missing tail lamp Clive ;-)

 

Not very easy to sort it out unless you have the uncoupling hidden and changing lamps is going to be too fiddly unless you can figure out a switch that is simple and also not visible to turn from one to other. Of course in DCC that'd be dead easy, much more tricky in DC.

 

Sounds like you have destination and diesel headcodes right. At least you don't have to worry about things like discs...

[Clive Mortimore]

You know what a mutual friend of ours would say to a missing tail lamp Clive ;-)

 

Not very easy to sort it out unless you have the uncoupling hidden and changing lamps is going to be too fiddly unless you can figure out a switch that is simple and also not visible to turn from one to other. Of course in DCC that'd be dead easy, much more tricky in DC.

 

Sounds like you have destination and diesel headcodes right. At least you don't have to worry about things like discs...

Hi Kelly,

 

In the time period I have set my layout, the early to mid 1960s, DMUs should carry tail lamps and not use tail lights. Considering the size of tail lamps and the lamp irons they fit on to trying to get them on the rear of a DMU with the station canopies physically in the way will be very difficult. As I say in the above running the train with them on both ends will look silly having a tail lamp on the leading end. I think no tail lamp is the better solution. I intend to disable any lights on my models so cannot use the tail lights. Tail lights are not too much of a problem in DC as they are on when the train is moving, and on my layout that is when you will see them. The main problem is they are set up so both lights go red, where in the few places they were used only one light would be displayed. Another slight issue is my older Hornby and Lima units do not have lights fitted. I find the "scale" lighting on models to be far to bright for 1960s diesels and electrics. Looking at photos taken even on not very bright days destination and headcode displays do not appear to have any illumination behind them.

 

The compromise is trying to get things as right as possible and at the same time keep things practical.

Edited February 22, 2017 by Clive Mortimore

[great northern]

Got it in one with the last line. I've come to the same conclusion, and to a degree have the same problem with Peterborough North, as I have the overall roof to contend with. My passenger formations that go both ways have lamps at both ends all the time, and though I do try to make sure steam locos have the correct lamps even that goes by the board sometimes when I'm operating on my own. Model lamps get smaller amd smaller, which is great visually, but not when I'm trying to get them on and off. We just can't get everything "right".

[Phil Bullock]

Ah - you need a roundy roundy Clive with a fiddle yard at the back !

 

These key issues are much more easily managed off scene

 

Just off to order some more Precison Labels headcodes......

 

Phil

Edited February 22, 2017 by Phil Bullock

[5BarVT]

Clive,

 

I will have a similar problem when I get my layout going, with the added complication that my terminus has through turn back workings (like Worcester Shrub Hill or Tilbury Riverside) so the destination blinds don't work either. I may have to revise the theoretical timetable.

On DMU tail lamps, you know and I know that DMUs carried them, but many don't so I am going to leave them off. Passenger stock I hadn't got as far as thinking about, but one on each end of fixed formation feels right (the next box is just going to send 7 bells a lot!). I am intending to shunt parcels and don't want lamps on both ends of all vehicles so will probably just leave them off.

Head codes for class 1 will be by having dedicated locos changed in the FY with 1Bnn on one end and 1Ann on the other. As you say, class 2 route numbers of that era do help.

I have an IA headcode book from early 70s and I am trying to reverse engineer some routing codes. It's interesting that LM to WR codes in the Birmingham area have different routing point references for the same route/number depending on whether you are reading the LM page or the WR page (e.g. Cutnall Green vs Hartlebury).

Just remember that only the really ancient and pedantic will know!

All the best,

Paul.

[Kelly]

I did just have an idea for the lamps. A little battery powered circuit, with magnetic changing by a control panel button, could work for changing the lamps from one to another or off. Might work for the units to some extent, headcode changing aside as that's something best left for 7mm and above. My brain works in funny ways...

 

However as stated, it is inevitable that compromise has to be made somewhere. Having the lamps fitted but not lit might be the easiest option.

[Dagworth]

If you are having tail lights on both ends of rakes make sure that they are on the side furthest from the front of the layout, at least that way they are more hidden behind corridor connections.

 

Badge

[Clive Mortimore]

If you are having tail lights on both ends of rakes make sure that they are on the side furthest from the front of the layout, at least that way they are more hidden behind corridor connections.

 

Badge

Good idea Andi, but does this mean I have to fit gangways on my non-gangway stock? :nono:

 

Most non-gangway stock had quite low down lamp irons so hopefully the lamp on the lead coach will be hidden out of view by the locomotive.

 

What I really need is a working model of the Italian porter that worked at Bedford in the days I trainspotted there. Some of the lamps were a very poor fit on the lamp irons and he would practice the new English words he had learned to help them go on. I would like to show you his acquired vocabulary but the RMweb censor will not let me..............don't know why.     

[Clive Mortimore]

Ah - you need a roundy roundy Clive with a fiddle yard at the back !

 

These key issues are much more easily managed off scene

 

Just off to order some more Precison Labels headcodes......

 

Phil

Hi Phil

 

If only I had the room for a roundy roundy. It would make life easier but what is life without a challenge. Mrs M hasn't told me what this weekends one will be, I know it won't be spend all Sunday playing trains.

[Kelly]

Hi Phil

 

If only I had the room for a roundy roundy. It would make life easier but what is life without a challenge. Mrs M hasn't told me what this weekends one will be, I know it won't be spend all Sunday playing trains.

Ear defenders needed? ;-)

[31A]

My layout is a terminus as well, and I don't like to see trains leaving with no tail lamp, or sets of coaches with tail lamps on both ends.

 

I replace moulded lamp irons with ones made from staples glued through 0.5mm holes drilled in the vehicle ends, and make slots in the bottom of Springside tail lamps.  I do this by drilling two 0.5mm holes as closely together as possible in the bottom of the lamp, then enlarge the holes to form a slot by cutting away the white metal in between with a craft knife blade.  Then I change the tail lamps on arrival from one end to the other of the rake using tweezers.  The same happens with DMUs; luckily the Bachmann Cravens units (and possibly others) already have wire lamp irons which can be used for this purpose.  Below is a BR CL (converted from a Bachmann non gangwayed coach using Comet sides) on which you can see a lamp on one lamp iron, with the other lamp iron visible nearer the camera:

 

 

Admittedly this would be difficult (or impossible) if the station had an overall roof, but it doesn't for the reason that I wouldn't be able to uncouple the incoming loco either!  I quite like the 'hand of God' action of transferring the tail lamps as it means movements don't take place too quickly - in reality there would be an interval between arrival and departure while locos are uncoupled and coupled, and passengers alight and join, crews change, etc.

 

With steam locos, I use a similar system with headlamps.  A lot of newer RTR locos now have lamp irons which can be used for this purpose; on older ones, again I make lamp irons from staples.  A problem sometimes arises with locos with continuous handrails above the smokebox door (e.g. B1s) on which it isn't always possible to fit a lamp in the 'Ordinary Passenger' position - these sometimes have to run with 'Express Passenger' headcodes instead!

 

With diesel locos however I haven't found a way of changing the headcode discs, let alone the blinds!  Thankfully since introducing a WTT and dividing the locos into 'links' I now know whether they are likely to be used for passenger or goods traffic and can fit discs accordingly.

 

I hate built in 'working' electric tail lamps on diesel locos and DMUs; they aren't really appropriate for my early '60s period, but in any case nothing jars more with me at exhibitions than diesel locos hauling trains, with two bright red lights on the end of the loco!  With most RTR locos and DMUs I just blank off the red LEDs with small pieces of black insulation tape over the LEDs.  Some are very bright, and need more than one layer of insulation tape!  Other locos (e.g. Hornby Brush 2s) can have the tail lamps isolated by putting a layer of Sellotape between the contacts; same applies for the cab lights in the Bachmann Deltic and Class 03 shunter.  I'm not keen on 'working' headlamps or blinds on model diesel locos either, they're usually way too bright but I must admit I usually leave them alone and just live with it.

 

 

 

[The Ghost of IKB]

Just remember that only the really ancient and pedantic will know!

All the best,

Paul.

Sadly that means almost all of us on here!

[Phil Bullock]

Sadly that means almost all of us on here!

 

Oh yes! And I have the relevant wtt to prove it....

 

 

Hee hee

 

Phil

[Clive Mortimore]

My layout is a terminus as well, and I don't like to see trains leaving with no tail lamp, or sets of coaches with tail lamps on both ends.

 

I replace moulded lamp irons with ones made from staples glued through 0.5mm holes drilled in the vehicle ends, and make slots in the bottom of Springside tail lamps.  I do this by drilling two 0.5mm holes as closely together as possible in the bottom of the lamp, then enlarge the holes to form a slot by cutting away the white metal in between with a craft knife blade.  Then I change the tail lamps on arrival from one end to the other of the rake using tweezers.  The same happens with DMUs; luckily the Bachmann Cravens units (and possibly others) already have wire lamp irons which can be used for this purpose.  Below is a BR CL (converted from a Bachmann non gangwayed coach using Comet sides) on which you can see a lamp on one lamp iron, with the other lamp iron visible nearer the camera:

 

P1010951.jpg

 

Admittedly this would be difficult (or impossible) if the station had an overall roof, but it doesn't for the reason that I wouldn't be able to uncouple the incoming loco either!  I quite like the 'hand of God' action of transferring the tail lamps as it means movements don't take place too quickly - in reality there would be an interval between arrival and departure while locos are uncoupled and coupled, and passengers alight and join, crews change, etc.

 

With steam locos, I use a similar system with headlamps.  A lot of newer RTR locos now have lamp irons which can be used for this purpose; on older ones, again I make lamp irons from staples.  A problem sometimes arises with locos with continuous handrails above the smokebox door (e.g. B1s) on which it isn't always possible to fit a lamp in the 'Ordinary Passenger' position - these sometimes have to run with 'Express Passenger' headcodes instead!

 

With diesel locos however I haven't found a way of changing the headcode discs, let alone the blinds!  Thankfully since introducing a WTT and dividing the locos into 'links' I now know whether they are likely to be used for passenger or goods traffic and can fit discs accordingly.

 

I hate built in 'working' electric tail lamps on diesel locos and DMUs; they aren't really appropriate for my early '60s period, but in any case nothing jars more with me at exhibitions than diesel locos hauling trains, with two bright red lights on the end of the loco!  With most RTR locos and DMUs I just blank off the red LEDs with small pieces of black insulation tape over the LEDs.  Some are very bright, and need more than one layer of insulation tape!  Other locos (e.g. Hornby Brush 2s) can have the tail lamps isolated by putting a layer of Sellotape between the contacts; same applies for the cab lights in the Bachmann Deltic and Class 03 shunter.  I'm not keen on 'working' headlamps or blinds on model diesel locos either, they're usually way too bright but I must admit I usually leave them alone and just live with it.

Hi Steve

 

I have considered a something similar to what you do. With my eyesight and manual dexterity trying to place something as small as a 4mm lamp on a short piece of wire in the confines of the space between a locomotive and a coach and on platform two (and possibly platform three) where my line of sight having a canopy in the way, could result in a pile of lamps in the 4 foot and me swearing with a Neapolitan accent. That is why I am trying to devise a way that is both practical and visually correct as I can manage.  Your solution is much better prototypically than my suggestion. I will give it a bash, no harm in having a go but regularly derailing either a coach bogie or a loco pony truck when uncoupling in the station I think I my perceived limitations could well be correct.

 

I do try when operating to make sure that there is a good time gap between the train arriving and leaving to represent the crew change, passengers joining the train, platform staff ensuring the train is safe to depart as well as the time taken to couple and uncouple locomotives etc. I never just run a loco from the loco siding straight on to its train. I stop about an inch away then after a short delay move on to the train to represent the loco being guided on to the train by the shunter. When I drive a parcels train in it remains in the platfornm for a very long time to give the impression of it being unloaded and loaded.

[Zomboid]

Can you use magnets? A little magnet in the coach, and another small one painted to resemble a lamp, and Maxwells laws ensuring that they stick together but can also be moved

Ought to be easier than faffing around with bits of wire and tiny loops.