Class 800 - Updates

[St. Simon]

If it’s similar spec to 800/1 then it’s a no brainier for Hornby to produce one in the stunning TPE livery. I’d be tempted, assuming it goes round corners

The TPE units are Class 802s rather than 800s, which are different enough that Hornby can't use their tooling.

 

Simon

[Coryton]

The TPE units are Class 802s rather than 800s, which are different enough that Hornby can't use their tooling.

 

Simon

 

The differences can't be that major - different arrangement of stuff on the roofs presumably...what else?

 

I'd be surprised if the tooling hasn't been designed to allow 802s to be made. 

 

Or they could just make 800's in TPE livery and hope nobody notices...

[159220]

If it’s similar spec to 800/1 then it’s a no brainier for Hornby to produce one in the stunning TPE livery.

 

The class 800/1 is 9-car, being delivered to Agility Trains East for the East Coast franchise holder within the Intercity Express Programme. The TPE Hitachi AT-300 is a class 802/2, which is 5-car and funded by Angel Trains. 

 

Note. The TPE and Hull Trains 802s are being funded by Angel trains and do not form part of the previous Eversholt order of 802s for GWR. Often people mistake these additional units being part of the options on the original order. 

 

19 Angel Trains units for TPE were ordered, as this was the max. output Newton Aycliffe could deliver TO the clients (TPE) timeframes. Ironic it is now, these AT-300s shall be built in Italy. Could of ordered more and saved the need to have micro-batches of CAF units....

 

The differences can't be that major - different arrangement of stuff on the roofs presumably...what else?

 

 

Exactly, the difference are not 'major' at all. The two key differences for a MODEL (as there are many on the prototype!) are:

 

- Dynamic Braking Radiator Grills on the roof, only on MC/MS coaches.

- Kitchen is shorter (c.6 metres) on the TPE 802/2s and thus only take two window panels. Currently Hornby hide the motor behind three window panels on the DPTF, though unique to TPE 802s, as GWR 802s have full kitchens.

 

Previously, the increased fuel tank has been accommodated into the Hornby tooling. 

 

I did take a MS coach of my GWR 800 apart to see if the roof allows increased braking grills. Both the grills, Wi-Fi modules and air-conditioning units are separately fitted parts, yet they clip into square holes in the roof. If they were round, it would be clear the 802 roof can easily be modelled by Hornby, but as square, it must be cut into the tooling. Thus, lets hope they have accommodated different roof slides to allow the 802 model. It would be in my mind, for a flagship model, be unacceptable to paint up a 800/0 in TPE colours. Especially when with other models they take the time to adjust the tooling to accommodate differences eg. the HST roof exhaust deflectors. 

[Coryton]

- Kitchen is shorter (c.6 metres) on the TPE 802/2s and thus only take two window panels. Currently Hornby hide the motor behind three window panels on the DPTF, though unique to TPE 802s, as GWR 802s have full kitchens.

 

The answer to that one might be that a bit of the motor ends up showing.

[Barry Ten]

I'm a semi-regular traveller between Paddington and Cardiff (and vice versa), and I've had 800s on the last three occasions I've been out of London. I have to say I've not been that impressed with the quality of service. On two of the three occasions, a 10-unit set was reduced to a 5-unit, leading to unacceptable over-crowding and problems with seat reservations and catering trolley access. How GWR think it's acceptable to run a 5-unit train all the way to Swansea or beyond beggars belief. On the third occasion, the full 10-unit set was available but only had catering in the rear half of the train, due to staffing problems. This was worse than it sounded as the unit was diverted around Bath and BTM to avoid Didcot, leading to a 3 hour journey to Cardiff.

 

Hopefully these issues will be smoothed out as the units continue in service, but at the moment I'm not all that wowed.

 

(edited to remove stupid error re: Severn Tunnel)

Edited April 24, 2018 by Barry Ten

[Coryton]

I'm a semi-regular traveller between Paddington and Cardiff (and vice versa), and I've had 800s on the last three occasions I've been out of London. I have to say I've not been that impressed with the quality of service. On two of the three occasions, a 10-unit set was reduced to a 5-unit, leading to unacceptable over-crowding and problems with seat reservations and catering trolley access. How GWR think it's acceptable to run a 5-unit train all the way to Swansea or beyond beggars belief.

 

 

I don't suppose they particularly wanted to run it as 5 coaches, but the alternative would presumably have been to cancel the service entirely.

 

A trolley is a bit hit and miss though, compared to a buffet - you never know when, or if, a trolley will turn up.

[Barry Ten]

I don't suppose they particularly wanted to run it as 5 coaches, but the alternative would presumably have been to cancel the service entirely.

 

 

 

 

More than likely, but now that they've got the option to split the unit, I wonder how commonly it will happen. Time will tell, I suppose.

[jamie92208]

There is a mention in either Rail or Railway Mag this month that NR are still considering partial electrification from Newton Abbott to Plymouth to save thrashing the IET's over that stretch.   No mention of dates though.

 

Jamie

Edited April 25, 2018 by jamie92208

[Coryton]

More than likely, but now that they've got the option to split the unit, I wonder how commonly it will happen. Time will tell, I suppose.

 

On the other hand, unlike an HST I don't suppose we'll see IETs turned out one coach short. (Or, sadly, as has happened on a few memorable journeys, with a de-classified first class coach in place of a standard class one).

[jamie92208]

There is a mention in either Rail or Railway Mag this month that NR are still considering partial electrification from Newton Abbott to Plymouth to save thrashing the IET's over that stretch.   No mention of dates though.

 

Jamie

I've now found the news item. It's in the current Railway Magazine (April issue) on Page 80. Apparently the DfT and Network Rail are studying the possibility of partial electrification and track realignments between Totnes and Plymouth. To precis this would allow class 800's and 802's to take advantage of their 25Kv capability over Hemerdon, Denton and Rattery banks and reduce stresses on their MTU power packs.

 

Jamie

[Siberian Snooper]

I've now found the news item. It's in the current Railway Magazine (April issue) on Page 80. Apparently the DfT and Network Rail are studying the possibility of partial electrification and track realignments between Totnes and Plymouth. To precis this would allow class 800's and 802's to take advantage of their 25Kv capability over Hemerdon, Denton and Rattery banks and reduce stresses on their MTU power packs.

 

Jamie

 

One assumes from that, that the 802s will also be carp on diesel, when shown a decent bank.

[jamie92208]

One assumes from that, that the 802s will also be carp on diesel, when shown a decent bank.

I suspect that they may have had their slide rules out on current test results and realised that they have a problem.

 

Jamie

[4630]

More class 800 testing through Leeds on 25th & 26th April, and as far as I know the first time they've ventured east of Leeds to access Neville Hill T&RSMD.

 

Here is Virgin Azuma 800101 with 09.47 Doncaster Carr IEP Depot to Neville Hill T&RSMD departing Leeds on 26th April.

 

 

[eastwestdivide]

Are they still looking at December 2018 for introduction to the Kings Cross services?

[4630]

Are they still looking at December 2018 for introduction to the Kings Cross services?

 

 

That's a very good question.  One to which I don't have an answer, unfortunately.

Edited April 26, 2018 by 4630

[Mallard60022]

More class 800 testing through Leeds on 25th & 26th April, and as far as I know the first time they've ventured east of Leeds to access Neville Hill T&RSMD.

 

Here is Virgin Azuma 800101 with 09.47 Doncaster Carr IEP Depot to Neville Hill T&RSMD departing Leeds on 26th April.

800101 5X21 Leeds 26042018 3 - RMweb.jpg

Apologies for a possibly dumb question, but how can I identify the Azumas on Realtime Trains as I'd like to see some more at Retford.

Many thanks.

[eastwestdivide]

Apologies for a possibly dumb question, but how can I identify the Azumas on Realtime Trains as I'd like to see some more at Retford.

Many thanks.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K97191/2018/04/26/advanced

 

They normally have an X in the reporting number as per 5X21 above.

Ignore the bit that says "Timed for 125mph max / High Speed Train (HST125)", that's just the timings not the traction

 

Edited for clarity/spelling/recalcitrant fingers.

Edited April 26, 2018 by eastwestdivide

[jamie92208]

Apologies for a possibly dumb question, but how can I identify the Azumas on Realtime Trains as I'd like to see some more at Retford.

Many thanks.

It's quite easy to do an advanced search on "Doncaster Carr IEP" as a location as all the test trains work from there and see what they have scheduled for the day.

 

Jamie

[4630]

Apologies for a possibly dumb question, but how can I identify the Azumas on Realtime Trains as I'd like to see some more at Retford.

Many thanks.

 

 

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K97191/2018/04/26/advanced

 

They normally have an X in the reporting number as per 5X21 above.

Ignore the bit that says "Timed for 125mph max / High Speed Train (HST125)", that's just the timings not the traction

 

Edited for clarity/spelling/recalcitrant fingers.

 

 

 

It's quite easy to do an advanced search on "Doncaster Carr IEP" as a location as all the test trains work from there and see what they have scheduled for the day.

 

Jamie

 

 

Probably worth adding that it appears the test workings are only added to the schedule a few days in advance.  There's nothing in for next week yet for example.  I don't recall many, if any, over a weekend.  That's not to say it won't happen of course.  

 

Even once added there's some fluidity to the plans.  The 5X21/5X22 Leeds runs on the 25th & 26th for example must have been added quite late on - they certainly weren't in the schedule when I checked earlier this week, which is why I didn't photograph it when it ran on the 25th.

 

They certainly seem to be venturing a bit further now having visited Harrogate and Skipton recently.  I would guess over the coming weeks they'll also venture onto some of the more common diversionary routes.  Leeds to the ECML via the Hambleton Junctions, to name just one.  

[royaloak]

One assumes from that, that the 802s will also be carp on diesel, when shown a decent bank.

I am sure they will be better than the 800s but whether they get close to HST timings up the hills we will have to wait and see.

 

I am looking forward to an 802 being stopped at E100 signal (the one after Totnes on the down) to see how it climbs from there up to Marley tunnel, I have done it with every other type of train I sign and the slowest was 36mph with a 153, an 800 was 2mph better than that.

[PenrithBeacon]

Saw an Azuma unit on the Bushey Arches at around 1945 this evening. Up line towards Euston.

[Kris]

I've now found the news item. It's in the current Railway Magazine (April issue) on Page 80. Apparently the DfT and Network Rail are studying the possibility of partial electrification and track realignments between Totnes and Plymouth. To precis this would allow class 800's and 802's to take advantage of their 25Kv capability over Hemerdon, Denton and Rattery banks and reduce stresses on their MTU power packs.

 

Jamie

 

I would have thought that it would be sensible to electrify between Newton Abbot and Plymouth if they are looking seriously at this. 

[jamie92208]

I would have thought that it would be sensible to electrify between Newton Abbot and Plymouth if they are looking seriously at this.

I agree totally but that is what the article said. Totness to Plymouth.

 

Jamie

[eastwestdivide]

Saw an Azuma unit on the Bushey Arches at around 1945 this evening. Up line towards Euston.

Nothing immediately obvious on Real Time Trains around then - might it have been a reliveried Pendolino (e.g. https://twitter.com/VirginTrains/status/908318588288868353)?

[PenrithBeacon]

I didn’t know the Pendalinos were being re-liveried, thanks