well filled baps The Sheep Chronicles : These are the adventures of a Sheep, the Works Forecat and Naughty George,

[JustinDean]

Forgive my ignorance @NHY 581but what is SWAG!?

 

Jay

[Oldddudders]

South Western Area Group, a set of like-minded modellers who had - until Covid - a series of highly successful annual weekends culminating in an exhibition in Taunton, to which we ordinary folk might be invited if we'd been good. 

[Gilbert]

12 minutes ago, JustinDean said:

Forgive my ignorance @NHY 581but what is SWAG!?

 

Jay

 

[Nick C]

On 18/12/2021 at 06:03, NHY 581 said:

 

 

 

Merry Christmas Rob!

[NHY 581]

3 hours ago, Stubby47 said:

That wagon looks good, but.....

 

where the newer planks are I'd expect to also see newer boltheads.

 

Just sayin'.

 

Oh, and a Merry Xmas to you and yours, hope Tom gets his start date sorted soon. 

 

 

Morning Stu. 

 

Thank you. Hope you have a lttle something from Santa. 

 

Tom's now starting on March 7th. Had the paperwork through last week so all good. 

 

 

Rob. 

 

 

 

 

 

[NHY 581]

2 hours ago, AdeMoore said:

Merry Christmas and a prosperous New Year to you and your family Rob, excellent modelling skills always on show in your thread here.

I don’t know how you find time to read all the replies here never mind reply to many! I had to drop to one notification a day otherwise my emails go mental! Great stuff here though always good humoured and supportive.

You intending to go to Edington? We may be in lockdown so maybe not!

Cheers

Ade

 

2 hours ago, Gilbert said:

Ade - according to UK Model shops site the show is off due to Covid - great shame - its an annual post holiday treat for me.

Chris

https://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/event/22878-SomersetandDorsetRailwayTrust_Exhibitio

 

 

Morning both, 

 

Yes, it's off. I had a message from Alex (Wiggoforgold) this morning. Signage to that effect is displayed on the Village Hall. A shame but inevitable given what's going on in the world at present. 

 

Hopefully SWAG is far enough removed from the current situation which I'm confident it is. 

 

Rob. 

 

 

[NHY 581]

1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

South Western Area Group, a set of like-minded modellers who had - until Covid - a series of highly successful annual weekends culminating in an exhibition in Taunton, to which we ordinary folk might be invited if we'd been good. 

 

We are of course keeping an eye on the more naughty types...........

[JustinDean]

Any plans to exhibit Northwards next year Rob?

[NHY 581]

1 hour ago, JustinDean said:

Any plans to exhibit Northwards next year Rob?

 

Not as yet, Jay. 

 

As alluded to above, I made it to Staffordshire in 2018 & 2019 but nothing is on the cards as of yet. 

 

All are either West Country or South Wales at present. 

 

If anything was mentioned, I would certainly look at it. 

 

Rob. 

[JustinDean]

2 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

 

Not as yet, Jay. 

 

As alluded to above, I made it to Staffordshire in 2018 & 2019 but nothing is on the cards as of yet. 

 

All are either West Country or South Wales at present. 

 

If anything was mentioned, I would certainly look at it. 

 

Rob. 

Hmmm, maybe I need to take a trip into the southern territories next year. 

Edited December 19, 2021 by JustinDean
No idea which year we’re in.

[Stubby47]

3 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

 

We are of course keeping an eye on the more naughty types...........

 

If you mean Spams, then just say it.

[Stubby47]

3 hours ago, JustinDean said:

Hmmm, maybe I need to take a trip into the southern territories next year. 

Edited 55 minutes ago by JustinDean
No idea which year we’re in.

Oh, you'll fit right in.

[bgman]

1 hour ago, Stubby47 said:

 

If you mean Spams, then just say it.

 

[NHY 581]

On 24/11/2021 at 22:47, PMP said:

They did all end up on the GE lines at Stratford. I think they stayed close to home base though.

Heljan mechanisms are normally pretty good. Check the wiper pickups and wheel treads/backs are clean from paint overspray, and as they’re spoked wheels that no wires etc are fouling at low speeds. If no improvement comes from those checks/cleaning and a running in period, My next port of call would be the motor. I’m not aware of any reliability issues with this model from the past releases.

 

 

Morning all, 

 

Update on the Class 16 saga using Paul's helpful post above. 

 

Pick ups/wheels etc checked and loco given time to run in. No change. 

 

Each bogie/gearbox was stripped, any white grease removed and all then re-assembled with light oiling. Everything rotated freely. No change to the running. 

Each bogie was then stripped and rolled about the place. Initially checked without worm gear in place. Free rotation but some expected slight resistance. Removal of gears and everything ran freely when gently pushed. 

 

Re-assembled and each bogie was re-connected to the motor in turn. That is to say one the loco was run with only one bogie connected at a time to the motor, then disconnected and the other bogie connected. No change. 

 

Both bogies disconnected and the motor observed. It was somewhat sticky at low rpm with uneven rotation to start. One direction noticibly tighter at low rpm than the other. 

 

Light oil was applied on the bearings and left to run on medium power but disconnected from the bogies for about 2hrs each direction. 

 

Bogie reconnected. Smoother bonnet forwards but working cab first very uneven at low rpm smoothing out as the power was applied. 

 

Conclusion.............

 

Replace motor. Problem is removing and replacing the flywheel/ integral plastic UJ assembly on the new motor......once I work out if I need a 43 or 48mm example or even a non-Heljan alternative if I can find a cylindrical equivalent with correct size shafts. 

 

Worth doing but a post Christmas job methinks.........

 

Rob. 

[Dunsignalling]

A late pal of mine had one of these that behaved much the same, and only did about a scale 40mph flat out. IIRC, this wasn't uncommon with the first batch of the Class 16s and later ones were sorted...

 

We recently disposed of it on behalf of his widow, and it's OK now, but I don't know if the motor had been replaced or it had just seen many hours of running on a continuous layout. 

 

If you want to keep the job simple, see if you can get a complete motor/flywheel assembly from Heljan.

 

John

[sb67]

On 18/12/2021 at 06:03, NHY 581 said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You've certainly had an eventful year! have a happy and safe Christmas and new year too Rob, I'm looking forward to the continuing adventures and their foray into East Anglia. 

Many thanks for taking us on the journey.

 

Steve. 

[NHY 581]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

A late pal of mine had one of these that behaved much the same, and only did about a scale 40mph flat out. IIRC, this wasn't uncommon with the first batch of the Class 16s and later ones were sorted...

 

We recently disposed of it on behalf of his widow, and it's OK now, but I don't know if the motor had been replaced or it had just seen many hours of running on a continuous layout. 

 

If you want to keep the job simple, see if you can get a complete motor/flywheel assembly from Heljan.

 

John

 

Morning John,

 

Absolutely however, if only it were that simple. Only Heljan motors I've found online thus far are sans flywheels. 

 

Gaugemaster ( spares distributor)  show no spares for this model (or the Class 15 incidentally). 

 

So it seems any replacing of the motor, either by way of a Heljan motor or otherwise has the same issues re flywheels etc. 

 

The Mashima 1626 seems a good replacement but it has 2mm shafts and would need the flywheels opening up to accept, which I don't see as a drama just time consuming. 

 

The top speed of the loco is not a concern as my layouts are small, shunty types. It just needs to be smooth,  slow and  creepy. 

 

 

Rob. 

 

 

[Izzy]

There seems to have been issues with these Heljan motors (made I believe by Buhler) that made them less than wonderful at times, but very hit and miss as to whether they were okay. Luckily mine are, 15 & WM Rb. I’ve read over on the 1970’s EM site that they tried replacing their duff motors with the cheap and easily obtained Mitsumi d/s type currently around. But apart from being a flat sided can needing some adaptation I’m not sure how well that worked out. 
 

Not sure if the 16 is currently DCC fitted, but if it isn’t then that would be my first port of call. Fitting a Zimo might mean it would ‘persuade’ the motor to run decently in both directions at any speed thanks to the BEMF and superior Zimo motor control. Could be the less hassle route. 
 

Bob

Edited December 21, 2021 by Izzy
Auto correct grrrr…

[Donw]

On 16/12/2021 at 08:18, NHY 581 said:

Morning Izzy. 

 

Sound on more locos may well follow. The Bachmann 24 is good fun but for now it will remain the only noisy loco. 

 

I had a bit of a chuckle the other day when I was playing with, sorry, operating the trainset with the noisy 24 whilst playing a recording of tweety birdies in the background. 

Quite mesmerising letting the loco tick over with a bit of background tweeting, meadow sounds etc............

 

Of course the Memsahib thought I'd finally lost it..........

 

 

Rob. 

 

I have a Zimo sound decoder in my Steam Railmotor I love the way you get random noises from it just as you would expect.

 

Don

[2ManySpams]

On 19/12/2021 at 16:27, Stubby47 said:

 

If you mean Spams, then just say it.

 

Shocked face!

[2ManySpams]

51 minutes ago, NHY 581 said:

 

Morning John,

 

Absolutely however, if only it were that simple. Only Heljan motors I've found online thus far are sans flywheels. 

 

Gaugemaster ( spares distributor)  show no spares for this model (or the Class 15 incidentally). 

 

So it seems any replacing of the motor, either by way of a Heljan motor or otherwise has the same issues re flywheels etc. 

 

The Mashima 1626 seems a good replacement but it has 2mm shafts and would need the flywheels opening up to accept, which I don't see as a drama just time consuming. 

 

The top speed of the loco is not a concern as my layouts are small, shunty types. It just needs to be smooth,  slow and  creepy. 

 

 

Rob. 

 

 

 

Sheepy, given the size of the layout and trains being run, do you need both bogies powered? Just powering one might increase the options for replacing the motor.

[NHY 581]

3 hours ago, Izzy said:

There seems to have been issues with these Heljan motors (made I believe by Buhler) that made them less than wonderful at times, but very hit and miss as to whether they were okay. Luckily mine are, 15 & WM Rb. I’ve read over on the 1970’s EM site that they tried replacing their duff motors with the cheap and easily obtained Mitsumi d/s type currently around. But apart from being a flat sided can needing some adaptation I’m not sure how well that worked out. 
 

Not sure if the 16 is currently DCC fitted, but if it isn’t then that would be my first port of call. Fitting a Zimo might mean it would ‘persuade’ the motor to run decently in both directions at any speed thanks to the BEMF and superior Zimo motor control. Could be the less hassle route. 
 

Bob

 

 

Hi Bob. 

 

Thank you. 

 

I'm convinced this is a motor issue which is why I ran the motor disconnected from the bogies. It is definately tighter at low rpm in one direction. You can see it hesitating as the flywheels revolve even after light lubing.

 

Connect the motor to either bogie and the result is the same. Install a decoder, no change. 

 

I firmly believe DCC needs a loco to run well to start with. Yes, Zimo decoders are good and the Class 15 definately runs better with one than it did with the DCC Concepts Zen. But the Class 15 ran well to start with and the loss in slow speed control was down to the zen decoder, not the loco. 

 

As I mentioned earlier, the bogies seem fine. It has to be the tightness of the motor. 

 

I'll leave it running for a bit longer and see if it improves but given the time spent doing this already, I'm not overly confident of this making any difference. 

 

If as expected there is no change then I'll explore the motor options and take it from there. 

 

Updates will follow. 

 

Rob. 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by NHY 581

[bgman]

1 minute ago, NHY 581 said:

I firmly believe DCC needs a loco to run well to start with

 

Quite correct Rob, if it doesn't run well in DC and it's a duff then no amount of time spent trying with a decoder is likely to improve it.

 

May I suggest trying to find another motor replacement for peace of mind, I hope you manage to fix it though.

 

G

[NHY 581]

2 hours ago, 2ManySpams said:

 

Sheepy, given the size of the layout and trains being run, do you need both bogies powered? Just powering one might increase the options for replacing the motor.

 

 

Mange Tout, PC. 

 

Indeed, that is the way I will go initially. Looks like I may have sourced a Mashima but I'm continuing to look at alternatives. I have a selection of small Hornby motors and will try a couple for fit........

 

SB

[NHY 581]

1 minute ago, bgman said:

 

Quite correct Rob, if it doesn't run well in DC and it's a duff then no amount of time spent trying with a decoder is likely to improve it.

 

May I suggest trying to find another motor replacement for peace of mind, I hope you manage to fix it though.

 

G

 

 

Afternoon Grahame, 

 

Firstly Merry Christmas to you. Your card arrived safe and well this morning. 

 

Thank you. 

 

Regarding the motor, yes doing one thing at a time will allow things to be ticked off. I do hope to sort it. I really like the loco. 

 

Best wishes, 

 

Rob.