Rapido/Locomotion Models GNR Stirling Single

[chris p bacon]

Out of interest, I’ll be handling mine with kid gloves once I get it here, because I can’t afford a second one, but is anyone looking at one of these with a view to taking a knife to it?

 

Oh yes, but I think I need it in front of me with the only known photo of the one I prefer. If not then more research is needed.

 

 

Doubt it. Crew, weather, proper couplings and lamp irons, but I'd be surprised if I end up doing more than that.

 

 

Go on. . get the knife out  .. . . . .you know you want to. . .

[Phil Parker]

To return to the Single, I borrowed the model from Andy (I have to give it back. Booo) and gave it a quick blast on my 1980s H&M rolling road. I even gave it some DCC flavoured power:

 

http://philsworkbench.blogspot.com/2018/06/putting-stirling-single-through-its.html

 

Nothing fell off, I didn't need to repair anything Mr York had broken and it looks very nice.

[jwealleans]

Go on. . get the knife out  .. . . . .you know you want to. . .

Depends what I see when I look at the pictures and film I've accrued (and what Mr. King's gimlet eye picks out) but up to now I'm quietly confident I'm going to be impressed.

[Guest spet0114]

Out of interest, I’ll be handling mine with kid gloves once I get it here, because I can’t afford a second one, but is anyone looking at one of these with a view to taking a knife to it?

I'm going to convert mine into Emily from the Thomas cartoons.....

[stewartingram]

I've got an unmade Kitmaster, & thinking of swopping tenders to get the correct one.

 

Stewart

[Guest spet0114]

I've got an unmade Kitmaster, & thinking of swopping tenders to get the correct one.

 

Stewart

You could convert the Rapido tender into a sludge carrier (or whatever it was that the current Stirling tender was used for)...

[Jeff Smith]

Last try at getting my point understood.

1.This or any other forum is not being criticised and is a valuable source of information and discourse.

2. The hobby would be dead in the water with very few adherents without ready to run box openers.

3. The expert modellers are as valuable as new starters.  

4. New starters are as valuable as experts

5. Not trying to provoke an argument simply stating a point

I return to my undeniable point that without RTR box openers the hobby would have almost disappeared by now.!

 

Sorry, can't let these statements remain unchallenged.

 

Without RTR and people to buy it the hobby would be smaller but definitely not dead in the water. There will always be ingenuity and people who create models from whatever is available. Modern RTR has eclipsed and replaced some of the cottage industry; this together with aging and retirement has somewhat reshaped the modelling landscape.

 

RTR is obviously a great help for those that are happy for whatever variety of reasons to go that route, many of whom would be doing something else otherwise, but some might be driven enough to dabble with kits and develop some skills.

[adb968008]

As us older members can remember there have been a number of RTR manufacturers over the years. Many have ceased trading or been bought out. It is difficult to know how the manufacturers decide on level of detail and thus price level; there is obviously some level of competition but this can only go so far or prices will be so high that they will not sell.

 

 

As long as i've known the hobby, the price of the model has never gone down.

At best the quality increased whilst the price remained static..

but it's never gone down.

 

It would be interesting to speculate what would happen if Hornby and/or Bachmann ceased production.

 

 

 

 

Companies come and go, but the tooling always survive.

Someone will buy then and start using them.

 

I am fascinated that Peco has managed to survive, and seemingly thrive on it's mostly made in the UK range of kits, RTR stock and track. Years ago it dabbled with a RTR N gauge loco (Black Five I think) but did not follow up, I wonder why?

 

 

If you look at their annual accounts going back to 2010 every year is a copy paste of the previous, flatlines of sales & costs (Admin and distribution), around the £6-7m mark with a profit of around £400k. A couple of years sees profits dip either to new investment or the economy. Looking back at year 2000 the figures (inflation adjusted) are largely the same, even 1995 was a company with £250k profit (which is there about £400k todays money).

 

They stuck to bread and butter stuff.. track is an essential, they make it and raise the price inline with inflation and costs.

 

Add to that they provide a distribution channel for hundreds of other smaller kit makers.

Chances are if you've ever bought a bunch of kits from different manufacturers at least one of them will have been shipped to your shop of choice by Peco.

 

They are the safe consistent company of the industry, with records going back to 1950... if they fail the hobby fails.

Edited July 2, 2018 by adb968008

[MarkSG]

Companies come and go, but the tooling always survive.

Someone will buy then and start using them.

 

 

Particularly in the case of Hornby; the brand alone is highly valuable and, if Hornby PLC ever did go under, the name would almost certainly be taken up by another company. Bear in mind that the model railway part of Hornby's business is profitable (it's their other divisions which are the cause of their recent, and widely publicised, financial problems), so if the company as a whole failed then that division would probably be picked up as a going concern by another toy/hobby manufacturer.

[Andy Hayter]

 

 

 

Companies come and go, but the tooling always survive.

Someone will buy then and start using them.

 

 

 

 

 

Usually - but not always.

Kitmaster - several moulds were smashed to make the metal more easy to handle back to the scrap merchant

Jouef - a number of earlier moulds were lost, never to be seen again.  In many cases a good thing, but some treasures were lost.

[Edwardian]

Today I had the privilege, not a word I use lightly, of handling the Stirling Single, and was able to photograph the model on my layout, Castle Aching.  My guests expressed a kind interest in some of my Pre-Groupery, which explains what’s going on in the background, and I could not resist placing the Single next to the Locomotion GNR Atlantic.  Both front rank express locos on the ECML, but 30 years apart.  As you see, Rule No.1 was fully in force, though perhaps the mix of GN, NE and GE motive power, and the presence of the LNW, suggests York!

 

The model is stunning.

 

Even the box it comes in merits a word.  It’s a nice thick card with a lift off lid and glossy finish.  Inside is a little booklet and a generous amount of foam, nestling inside of which is the familiar clear plastic sleeve containing the clear plastic fold-over assembly moulded to hold the model.

 

On first handling the model I am struck by the satisfying weight, and the long, thinness of the loco.  It lacks the bulk of later locomotives.  It is low and slim like an 1870s loco should be. You can tell that its immediate parents were the sort of locomotives Mike Sharman modelled; a world away from locomotives we are used to. 

 

The finish, not quite gloss or satin, gives an excellent impression of a polished locomotive at scale; it’s not at all plasticky and one of the best, probably the best, and most convincing RTR finishes I’ve seen.  It really could be a kit finished to the very highest professional standard and only a few people could make anything that looks this good.  So, its overall ‘presence’ is very convincing.

 

This one has done the rounds.  We didn’t have time to fit the bogie splashers, it’s donated its front coupling hook to a previous venue, and the blemish to the front right of the smoke box (as you view it) is due to it not being packed as ordered in transit.  I understand that those arriving on a slow boat from China will not be at risk of this.

 

Nevertheless, this is an object of beauty and desire. We knew that the concerns over the front of the loco had been addressed, but it was great to assess the solution at close hand.  In the revised design the front foot plate sits at the correct height relative to the front of the cylinders, and the top of the crosshead is flush to the base of the valance.  This latter refinement was achieved by moulding the top slide-bar to the bottom of the funning plate; tip the model up, and you can see this bit of ingenuity. Where the smoke box wrapper and the cylinder cases were originally designed as separate components, now they are the same component and the beautifully flowing curved sections are smooth and free of any joint line. Consummate engineering. This is also an example of a commissioner and manufacturer being willing to listen to constructive comment, and to decide to reappraise. As a result, a different approach was identified and we have a model that captures the proportions and characteristic of the prototype perfectly.

 

More fine detail and technical cleverness lies beneath the foot plate. The brake rigging alone is a work of art and much finely detailed motion is visible.  Much has already been said of the cleverness of using the trailing wheel as an additional driver, but I had not appreciated the fact that there are pick-ups on every wheel, including the tender, and that you can’t see them!  The connection between the loco and tender is well thought out.  There is a socket connection.  The sockets are mounted, not suspended from dangling wires.  This makes connection far easier to accomplish.  I gripped the valance firmly but gently amidships with one hand, and the tender with the other, and simply pushed them together.

 

The level of detail, the fineness of the lining and the quality of the finish speak for themselves.  The work around the slotted splasher is very fine indeed.

 

We did not run the model, as it’s the sound version. Although I am told that the model will run on a DC layout, and with the basic sound, even without a blanking plug, Castle Aching is currently wired up to another museum piece in the form of an H&M Duette that’s almost as old as I am.  I was advised that running the loco on this would be to court disaster, and I suspect that it could have resulted in a very expensive smell of burning.  Not that this appears to have bothered Phil Parker in the slightest!  Returning it in one piece does not mean by fusing the body to the loco, apparently, so possibly a lucky escape there.

 

It is hard not to succumb to hyperbole when confronted with this model. It was a courageous choice for anyone’s first UK steam-outline model. It’s got to be the first serious attempt at a prototype of this vintage in RTR. It’s a single. Ultimately, though, it will not be judged on the extent to which it was an ambitious choice, but on how it turned out. I am apt to be cynical when exposed to hype, as it’s seldom deserved, but, really, this is a model that deserves the highest praise.

 

The magazines have asked if this is the model of the year. I think that understates what we have here.  It’s pushed boundaries and shown what can be done. For the next ten years at least, manufacturers will have their work cut out equalling this release, let alone surpassing it. I’d say, then, that this is the model of the decade.

 

I must thank Brian and Tom for an excellent time today, and for the chance to see this model and to study it in the flesh. It’s always a pleasure to see a model for which there is really nothing but praise (you do know where to send the cheque, yes?), but, it really isn’t easy or straightforward to produce such a good model of such a challenging subject, and, from what I gathered today, the road was long with many a winding turn, but Locomotion and Rapido stuck at it and have certainly delivered a triumphant conclusion to their odyssey.   

 

[chris p bacon]

 

Even the box it comes in merits a word.  It’s a nice thick card with a lift off lid and glossy finish.  Inside is a little booklet and a generous amount of foam, nestling inside of which is the familiar clear plastic sleeve containing the clear plastic fold-over assembly moulded to hold the model.

 

Please tell me there isn't a box opening video already. . . 

[JCL]

That’s brilliant Edwardian, thanks for posting your findings. It’s all really positive stuff.

Edited July 3, 2018 by JCL

[Edwardian]

Please tell me there isn't a box opening video already. . . 

 

First ten minutes of the forthcoming video review will feature the box.

 

From the outside.

 

Then we open it!

 

[JSpencer]

Brilliant Edwardian. One additional thing to note, this is Rapido's first ever choo choo (steam locomotive) and the fact they set the highest standard ever in RTR (is that just British RTR? or does it beat continental models too?), is saying something about the company.

 

(NRM D class or Gladstone next for me please.....).

[No Decorum]

Particularly in the case of Hornby; the brand alone is highly valuable and, if Hornby PLC ever did go under, the name would almost certainly be taken up by another company. Bear in mind that the model railway part of Hornby's business is profitable (it's their other divisions which are the cause of their recent, and widely publicised, financial problems), so if the company as a whole failed then that division would probably be picked up as a going concern by another toy/hobby manufacturer.

 

It wouldn’t be the first time it has happened. Hornby’s history has been difficult and there has been little continuity between the original Hornby and the Hornby of today.

[G-BOAF]

First ten minutes of the forthcoming video review will feature the box.

 

From the outside.

 

Then we open it!

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who is annoyed by the fact that so many online reviews require about half the video before the model comes out of the box...

[Steamport Southport]

As long as i've known the hobby, the price of the model has never gone down.

At best the quality increased whilst the price remained static..

but it's never gone down.

 

 

 

 

Can't have been around long then.

 

If so you will remember when the newcomers such as Airfix, Mainline and Lima appeared in the 1970s and their prices were well below what Hornby and Wrenn were charging. For vastly better models.

 

Then there was the heavy discounting in the 1980s when stock was being flogged of for buttons. RRP prices even went down. Look at magazines from the time if you don't believe me.

 

 

 

Jason

[Methuselah]

I suggest a separate thread for the politics and philosophy of modelling (Who knew there was such a chimera..?).....meanwhile...   

 

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

...back to the actal subject of this thread, namely the Stirling Single. 

 

     I am happy to admit to a general paucity of knowledge about the GNR (I'm more centred on the GWR.), and was attracted to this model as it's that great rarity - a single - and a prodigiously handsome one at that. I'm glad that the model is supplied with the correct larger tender that seems to feature in all the original photos I've seen of the machines in service. However - I have noted that this basic design of the loco' underwent a number of variations and modifications, such as solid splashers, filled-in splashers, and the later addition of domes etc. 

     My question then, for the more informed here is ;- Of the 53 built, how many were identical to No.1...and where can I view an original image for verification? Armed with this knowledge, I will then be able to renumber without any further modification. I'd prefer one that had some interesting history or event included in it's antecedents - other than No.1 itself. Thus far, I've managed to find images of a few below. My current favourite is No.5, as it's the simplest to renumber. Any suggestions gratefully received ;-

 

5;-      https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4341/36653098815_170dd79468_b.jpg

5;-      https://www.mediastorehouse.com/mary-evans-prints-online/national-archives/gnr-stirling-single-locomotive-7402203.html

 

22;-    https://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=AwrJ7B1LSDtbTdUAbyxNBQx.;_ylu=X3oDMTIzbDAwcWNpBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1nBG9pZAM0ODQxYTUzNmUzYzcyODhiYjEwNTI2YzgxZTcyZjMyZARncG9zAzk1BGl0A2Jpbmc-?.origin=&back=https%3A%2F%2Fuk.images.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3DGNR%2BStirling%2BSingle%26fr%3Dyfp-t%26fr2%3Dpiv-web%26nost%3D1%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D95&w=1024&h=645&imgurl=farm6.static.flickr.com%2F5110%2F5674005032_51d2f3b2ef_b.jpg&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fhiveminer.com%2FTags%2Flocomotive%2Cpregrouping%2FRecent&size=286.9KB&name=The+World%26%2339%3Bs+most+recently+posted+photos+of+locomotive+and+...&p=GNR+Stirling+Single&oid=4841a536e3c7288bb10526c81e72f32d&fr2=piv-web&fr=yfp-t&tt=The+World%26%2339%3Bs+most+recently+posted+photos+of+locomotive+and+...&b=61&ni=21&no=95&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=11oh9fg98&sigb=13kjrrmv4&sigi=11ou4jo44&sigt=121j208sr&sign=121j208sr&.crumb=4mUpaygj6e3&fr=yfp-t&fr2=piv-web

93;-    https://www.gnbooks.co.uk/product/the-golden-age-of-yorkshire-railways/

 

221;- GNR_221_KX_(Bird,_1910).jpg

 

548;- GNR_548_(Bird,_1910).jpg

 

1001;- https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:4-2-2_GNR_1001.jpg

 

1003;- https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/4-2-2_GNR_1003.jpg

 

Thanks in anticipation...    

Edited July 4, 2018 by Methuselah

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... is anyone looking at one of these with a view to taking a knife to it?

 The photographs I have seen so far suggest that it can use a little work to further gild the lily. Prototypical spacing between engine and tender dragboxes, and the fall plate fallen to a horizontal position are already on the 'to be assessed' list. Typically necessary on most RTR OO models of tender locomotives, and the adjustment(s)required generally not accomplished by use of a knife...

[Methuselah]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who is annoyed by the fact that so many online reviews require about half the video before the model comes out of the box...

 

 

...and then it will be revealed that the twerp opening the box hasn't got the foggiest idea what they are talking about....

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...so many online reviews require about half the video before the model comes out of the box...

 It's a major element of the hobby. Nobody else see this ad.?

 

 

"Following a merger between The Deft Unboxer and Box Purchaser Monthly, there are positions for new writers to join our team to develop fresh perspectives on the approach to what’s inside. You will be working alongside established authorities such as the challenging Rip Front (“straight to the contents”) the much admired Prudence Gently, and the widely imitated O. Leavit-Intbocks

Successful applicants will enjoy all the benefits of employment in an ambitious multimedia platformed consumer communications specialist group, with opportunity for continuing career development via our sister publication Future Reports Of The Hobby; and our many other leisure titles ranging from Amateur Competitive Cakemaker Commentator to TV Watcher Posture Digest "

 

...

 

Edited July 3, 2018 by 34theletterbetweenB&D

[G-BOAF]

and don't get me started on people going on about great 'ice block' packaging....

This said there is a funny video of some kid who decided to litterally freeze a model in Ice. I suspect it has been taken down as I can't find it.

[adb968008]

Can't have been around long then.

 

If so you will remember when the newcomers such as Airfix, Mainline and Lima appeared in the 1970s and their prices were well below what Hornby and Wrenn were charging. For vastly better models.

 

Then there was the heavy discounting in the 1980s when stock was being flogged of for buttons. RRP prices even went down. Look at magazines from the time if you don't believe me.

 

 

 

Jason

I recall them from day 1..

Never saw there prices fall (outside of a sale), the RRP only went up afaik.

They might have started lower than Hornby, but i didn’t see them go down further.

 

Mainline warship I recall was £9.99 new, never went down less than that.

Wasn’t 45691 a market entrant at £14.95 ?

 

If they went down, i’m off back to Egerton st, Farnworth (Moses Gate model store I think it was called) to get a refund from the old model shop there on the corner as he promised me I wouldn’t find them cheaper...

(I’d need Good luck on that.. shop closed c1983, demolished 5 years later, and the industrial unit built afterwards has also since been demolished, not to be confused with Ronnie’s FRMC near the A666 also gone).

Edited July 3, 2018 by adb968008

[JCL]

Hi methuselah

 

I think Dave (Chris P Bacon) can help there, he’s bought 2 with a view to renumbering one. I asked him if he was going to add a dome - paraphrasing the reply, he said no (but with more words)

Edited July 3, 2018 by JCL