More model ideas

[The Stationmaster]

35 minutes ago, BR Blue said:

Exactly. I am sure Accurascale could make a great model of a 20 but the current one on the market is being updated. It is similar to people suggesting the 60, there is not too much wrong with the existing model on the market (lighting functions could be upgraded). Suggestions should be commercially viable and not just wish-listing. There are other lower hanging fruit, e.g. Class 50 and many steam engines, that make more commercial sense and are much more likely to appear.

 

 

 

Think simple and think costs.  So think development time/costs, design time/costs, and production methodology.  So if you have already got an EE three axle bogie plus two developed examples of models and mechanisms which use that bogie what would you do next?

 

Equally if you already have two versions of GWR tenders what would you think about next?

[Hal Nail]

53 minutes ago, BR Blue said:

Suggestions should be commercially viable

Now that really is wish-listing. 

 

I saw a thread discussing a 7mm GWR toad where a manufacturer said even the most common diagram probably wouldn't cover the tooling cost. A couple of posts later someone suggested they do an obscure open ended thing which was unique, "because lots of people will like it". 

 

[McC]

3 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

Now that really is wish-listing. 

 

I saw a thread discussing a 7mm GWR toad where a manufacturer said even the most common diagram probably wouldn't cover the tooling cost. A couple of posts later someone suggested they do an obscure open ended thing which was unique, "because lots of people will like it". 

 

 

Generally if we can make 20-30k of it, if its a wagon, 15-20k of it if its a coach and at least 5-8k of it if its a loco, it's 'viable' in our eyes. 

[97406]

4 minutes ago, McC said:

 

Generally if we can make 20-30k of it, if its a wagon, 15-20k of it if its a coach and at least 5-8k of it if its a loco, it's 'viable' in our eyes. 

There’s so many potential projects to choose from. I for one look forward to looking back in 5 or 10 years’ time, seeing how you’ve developed, and the next items. All going well, I’ll have a lot more layout ‘real estate’ to run them on, too!

[choo1choo]

On 09/06/2022 at 08:59, Wickham Green too said:

 

 

...... anyway, has anyone mentioned a Brighton D1 or Southern W recently ?

 

 

 

I'll certainly mention the LBSCR D1 again....and a BI Gladstone just for the heck of it. 

 

Craig.

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

So if you have already got an EE three axle bogie plus ... two versions of GWR tenders what would you think about next?

The mind boggles ! 🙄

[BR Blue]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

Think simple and think costs.  So think development time/costs, design time/costs, and production methodology.  So if you have already got an EE three axle bogie plus two developed examples of models and mechanisms which use that bogie what would you do next?

 

Equally if you already have two versions of GWR tenders what would you think about next?

 

Trying to think of what loco had EE 3 axle bogies and 2 GWR tenders. This really sounds more like a KR models project :) They managed to merge different versions of the Fell into the one model so I am sure they are up for the challenge.

 

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, McC said:

 

Generally if we can make 20-30k of it, if its a wagon, 15-20k of it if its a coach and at least 5-8k of it if its a loco, it's 'viable' in our eyes. 

No wonder your pricing is very marketable and you're keeping going in developing  your range.  Especially so when you consider that some folk are only doing runs of 2,000 -2,500 of a loco - including all livery variants - and probably far smaller runs of wagons and coaches than your target area.

[The Ghost of IKB]

5k locos?  Well I will happily buy 4 class 40s, so that only leaves you 4996 others to sell! 

[reddragon]

12 minutes ago, The Ghost of IKB said:

5k locos?  Well I will happily buy 4 class 40s, so that only leaves you 4996 others to sell! 

1 from me, so 4995 to sell

[97406]

16 minutes ago, reddragon said:

1 from me, so 4995 to sell

 

I have 7 Class 40s so far, so that leaves 193 left to get.

[Banger Blue]

Mrs Doyle has something to say about a Class 40:

 

[Torbay Express]

6 hours ago, McC said:

 

Generally if we can make 20-30k of it, if its a wagon, 15-20k of it if its a coach and at least 5-8k of it if its a loco, it's 'viable' in our eyes. 

There must be tears in Barwell and Margate of such figures.......At least you were kind and put K so they didn't see the zeros!  Just shows what is possible if offer a highly detailed product and you price things sensibly.  (I hope St.Simon is reading this, pretty much answers all his issues on the model market!  Competition works and if you cannot handle the heat - jump out of the fire!)

 

Clearly there must be the odd 'sexy' exception - thinking the KUA!  Suppose they are more justifiable if you have products it compliments and if you can get a partner for N to share the research costs with (even though a low part of development cost compared to tooling).

 

[wombatofludham]

On 08/06/2022 at 23:09, Colin_McLeod said:

 

Back on topic. How about an NIR Hunslet and an NIR 80 class. Or maybe a GNR(I) 4-4-0.

I'm sure the NIR Hunslets ran on bogies similar to Class 20s.  So, if the Hunslets are done, you might as well do a Whistling Wardrobe.  Soundfiles would be similar too.

[paulbb]

I would love AS to do an early Metrovick Co-Bo with the early wrap around windows, No livery variations possible ( a bogus CIE?) but a nice link up with their Irish Crossley machines. Smoke units would be de rigeur of course, and an ear splitting sound chip...lovely

[TomScrut]

On 13/06/2022 at 14:32, The Stationmaster said:

No wonder your pricing is very marketable and you're keeping going in developing  your range.  Especially so when you consider that some folk are only doing runs of 2,000 -2,500 of a loco - including all livery variants - and probably far smaller runs of wagons and coaches than your target area.

 

That depends though I think.

 

Surely the figures @McC is quoting there are also to cover off tooling costs?

 

I'm sceptical that the other players will be looking at those smaller runs and expecting the tooling to pay off? OTOH maybe they are and that's where the price difference comes from.

[The Stationmaster]

12 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

That depends though I think.

 

Surely the figures @McC is quoting there are also to cover off tooling costs?

 

I'm sceptical that the other players will be looking at those smaller runs and expecting the tooling to pay off? OTOH maybe they are and that's where the price difference comes from.

Yes but no doubt nowadays anyone would be looking to cover, or try to, amortise tooling costs on the first run to avoid having the debt hanging round their accounts?

 

When you consider that some Hornby runs are smaller than that figure - although it looks as if they are trying to address that by offering more variants in Year 1 -  you can start to see where the differences lie.  I'm sure Hornby have advanced beyond one new model some years back where the first run was only 750 units (followed by over-production in Year 2 with stock sold off cheaply).   So I reckon Hornby might be learning but according to something I heard from a person in the trade there is at least one retailer commission which has in total outsold a number of Hornby models by a considerable margin.  Comes back down to knowing the market and making the right things which then enables economy of scale which in turn holds down the end price.

[wombatofludham]

Here's a thought...

I mentioned earlier in the thread that you might consider going into the DMU market by utilising a common 64ft underframe under a family of units, the 114, 116 and 119, giving you a two car low density, a three car high density suburban and a three car cross country unit which could share a lot of mechanical kit.  Now you've announced the King's Cross suburban Mk1 and 31s, up until 1977 a fleet of DMUs called Class 125 also worked alongside them - they were essentially a Class 116 suburban unit, fitted with more powerful diesel hydraulic transmission.  Knowing how you like range "synergy" a Class 116/125 might now be worth a look given they ran alongside the Mk1 sets!

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, wombatofludham said:

Here's a thought...

 

Whilst not for me as it's out of era that does sound like quite a decent amount of combinations

[TomScrut]

On 16/06/2022 at 11:56, The Stationmaster said:

Yes but no doubt nowadays anyone would be looking to cover, or try to, amortise tooling costs on the first run to avoid having the debt hanging round their accounts?

 

If the 47 has cost Bachmann £1m then I doubt they'll be reaping that back in one run. Although that also doesn't mean to say that it is just tooling either. The tooling could be a quarter of that.

[atom3624]

I reckon that by the time we finish the countdown of the Class 40 5,000, it'll be on sale!!

I'll be in for at least one ... I started the 40 fan page anyway!!  🙂

 

Al.

[dj_crisp]

14 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

Here's a thought...

I mentioned earlier in the thread that you might consider going into the DMU market by utilising a common 64ft underframe under a family of units, the 114, 116 and 119, giving you a two car low density, a three car high density suburban and a three car cross country unit which could share a lot of mechanical kit.  Now you've announced the King's Cross suburban Mk1 and 31s, up until 1977 a fleet of DMUs called Class 125 also worked alongside them - they were essentially a Class 116 suburban unit, fitted with more powerful diesel hydraulic transmission.  Knowing how you like range "synergy" a Class 116/125 might now be worth a look given they ran alongside the Mk1 sets!

 

There's lots of common features across the heritage DMU range which I'm just learning.

 

I've been looking at doing a 116 and havent Bachmann pretty much done the underframe for that with the 117 release? (I'm basically trying to understand differences so any help is appreciated).

[wombatofludham]

6 hours ago, dj_crisp said:

 

There's lots of common features across the heritage DMU range which I'm just learning.

 

I've been looking at doing a 116 and havent Bachmann pretty much done the underframe for that with the 117 release? (I'm basically trying to understand differences so any help is appreciated).

More or less, and they may yet decide to do a 116 although I'd be surprised if they did, especially as there are still a number of livery/body combinations for the 117 to be released, such as overall blue and Regional Railways.  Dapol have also got a long underframe chassis under the bubble cars which could also be used on some of the long underframe DMU types although if they do I would hope they would fit more robust drive mechanisms, I've already had one Dapol bubble lose drive following the well documented drive shaft issues.

I think the point I was making is there is the possibility for Accurascale to launch a range of DMUs which would cover key uses without directly competing with Bachmann's range of heritage DMU by duplicating designs, using some common mechanical and electrical engineering which would be both an entry into a market segment many would think is already provided for whilst growing the overall market.

[adb968008]

On 13/06/2022 at 14:32, The Stationmaster said:

No wonder your pricing is very marketable and you're keeping going in developing  your range.  Especially so when you consider that some folk are only doing runs of 2,000 -2,500 of a loco - including all livery variants - and probably far smaller runs of wagons and coaches than your target area.

trade off being at that volume, repeating that level of demand will be hard for a while. I bought my fill of Deltics, just as I did 66’s assuming it might be a while before more follow, and those that do are less likely to be big hitters in big hit liveries as most have been done.

[Dunsignalling]

5 hours ago, adb968008 said:

trade off being at that volume, repeating that level of demand will be hard for a while. I bought my fill of Deltics, just as I did 66’s assuming it might be a while before more follow, and those that do are less likely to be big hitters in big hit liveries as most have been done.

Given the number of identities being covered in the initial batches, I'm certainly not expecting Accurascale to follow Hornby's practice of making additional releases in Year 2, and quite possibly not Year 3, either.

 

The total numbers produced by both companies are likely to be fairly similar eventually, but the way they get produced/released looks like being different and anyone expecting Year 2 models from Accurascale may be disappointed.

 

John