Hornby Announce Peckett W4 0-4-0ST

[Captain Kernow]

I agree I have two L&Y Pugs which run well and in pre-Peckett days I frequently thought about "industrialising" one with a blue paint job, and every time held off because its an attractive model of any attractive type and I didn't want to ruin it. Mr Peckett saves the day and in due course I'm reminded that a B4 ended up at Backworth.

At least one ex-L&Y Pug did make it into industrial service.

[Steamport Southport]

At least six L&Y Pugs were sold to industrial owners. But I believe that a few of the others spent time on loan to industrial concerns. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%26YR_Class_21

 

 

Just found a previous thread with more details of the Pugs in industrial use. So apparently there were nine industrial ones.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/21740-ly-pugs/

 

 

Jason

Edited August 18, 2017 by Steamport Southport

[Caledonian]

At least six L&Y Pugs were sold to industrial owners. But I believe that a few of the others spent time on loan to industrial concerns. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%26YR_Class_21

 

 

Just found a previous thread with more details of the Pugs in industrial use. So apparently there were nine industrial ones.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/21740-ly-pugs/

 

 

Jason

 

I'm quite happy running my pugs as hired out ones, generally hauling ironstone tipplers, but prefer to leave them as they are without exotic liveries [although I will confess to taking off the motion covers].

 

On the wider issue of demand for industrial locomotives, I think - entirely unscientifically - that there is a growing demand for small layouts, and that industrial locomotives present an opportunity to run multiple ones.Motive power depots obviously work in this way but there's less scope for convincingly shunting goods wagons using multiple locomotives in a small space unless you turn to industry and that's where the Peckett has come in, not just as a very attractive model in its own right but one whose time has come in modelling terms.

[MarkSG]

On the wider issue of demand for industrial locomotives, I think - entirely unscientifically - that there is a growing demand for small layouts, and that industrial locomotives present an opportunity to run multiple ones.Motive power depots obviously work in this way but there's less scope for convincingly shunting goods wagons using multiple locomotives in a small space unless you turn to industry and that's where the Peckett has come in, not just as a very attractive model in its own right but one whose time has come in modelling terms.

 

I agree. Industrials are an obvious choice for micro-layouts, and I've seen some very good examples of the genre at exhibitions. But they're not all that common, and maybe one of the things that has held them back in the past has been a lack of suitable RTR motive power. A few suitable RTR industrial locos could well give a significant boost to a previously under-represented (in modelling terms) part of our railway history.

 

In this context, it's worth noting that the Sentinel 4wDM has also seemingly become a fixture in Hornby's annual release schedule (eight different liveries already, which is more than the Peckett so far), and for probably much the same reasons as the Peckett - it's cheap, it's good, and if it fits your chosen era there are many different settings in which it's appropriate.

 

Fashions in modelling come and go, of course. But it does seem to me that industrials are on the upward curve at the moment. I think Hornby have made a very slick marketing move by getting in on the beginning of it, and I think they deserve to be congratulated for it.

[Caledonian]

I agree. Industrials are an obvious choice for micro-layouts, and I've seen some very good examples of the genre at exhibitions. But they're not all that common, and maybe one of the things that has held them back in the past has been a lack of suitable RTR motive power. A few suitable RTR industrial locos could well give a significant boost to a previously under-represented (in modelling terms) part of our railway history.

 

In this context, it's worth noting that the Sentinel 4wDM has also seemingly become a fixture in Hornby's annual release schedule (eight different liveries already, which is more than the Peckett so far), and for probably much the same reasons as the Peckett - it's cheap, it's good, and if it fits your chosen era there are many different settings in which it's appropriate.

 

Fashions in modelling come and go, of course. But it does seem to me that industrials are on the upward curve at the moment. I think Hornby have made a very slick marketing move by getting in on the beginning of it, and I think they deserve to be congratulated for it.

 

Yes, I did suggest on another thread that a long term marketing strategy predicated on giving a child a roundy roundy trainset and waiting for him or her to grow up into a serious modeller might be more hopeful than realistic and that new entrants into the art might be more effectively aimed at people in their late 20s and early 30s, who are growing out of playing with pretty coloured lights. Rather than equally pretty coloured train-sets running round in circles, they might far more positively respond to well-modelled shunting planks and exquisitely realistic models such as the Peckett.

[hartleymartin]

I think that model railways has seen a gradual shift in focus over the years. From what I can tell, in previous times the aim was to more to model a main-line type where you could have big locomotives and long trains and a model railway would have several stations. Then there was a shift towards branch lines as a smaller project that could be later incorporated into a larger layout, but eventually became a complete layout in its own right. From there, shunting layouts started to grow into favour as a cheap and easy introduction to model railways, and now even to smaller micro layouts.

That is not to say that people don't still build big layouts. I think that people like small layouts because these are projects which can be seen through to reasonable completion without taking up too much time, space and money.

 

Of course, I had to shift into O gauge only a few years before the big manufacturers started to get on board with little shunting locomotives! It was not that long ago that industrial railway layouts were dominated by the J94/Austerity 0-6-0s, Terriers, Pugs and Jintys. (Oh, and the old Mainline J72 made a pretty good shunter too!)

[Dunsignalling]

Yes, I did suggest on another thread that a long term marketing strategy predicated on giving a child a roundy roundy trainset and waiting for him or her to grow up into a serious modeller might be more hopeful than realistic and that new entrants into the art might be more effectively aimed at people in their late 20s and early 30s, who are growing out of playing with pretty coloured lights. Rather than equally pretty coloured train-sets running round in circles, they might far more positively respond to well-modelled shunting planks and exquisitely realistic models such as the Peckett.

From what I've seen lately, I'd say the majority of new entrants are at least a decade older than your target group. 

 

Also, having seen the following for colourful (and frequently fictitious) "Private Owner" wagons, there are probably more adult closet train-setters out there than we imagine.  

 

Each to his own, but my intuition is that most of the early-middle-aged newcomers to the hobby are inspired by a youthful enthusiasm for the real thing more than what they did or didn't play with as children.

 

That probably won't be much help in the long term given that, within the generation who will fill that slot in twenty years time, there currently seems to be very little interest in railways other than as a means of getting around.

 

John

[Caledonian]

Ah, didn't say its a magic bullet... It probably isn't going to be easy at all to entice people in "cold", but I still think that for exactly the reasons suggested the "I had a trainset when I was a kid" re-entrants may be a shrinking market and that "designer" shunting layouts are more likely to appeal.

 

Another factor to consider here is cost. There are endless arguments over the relative cost of locomotive models now and in the golden days of Hornby Dublo, and I'm happy to accept the arithmetic telling me that twas ever thus, but while an established [and well-heeled] modeller might not balk at shelling out something in the region of £150 for a must-have passenger loco and as much again for a few carriages [and yes experienced ones will shop around], for someone coming in from the outside that can be a daunting investment, which might literally daunt him - or her.

 

A Peckett on the other hand, pretty universally described by reviewers as a modelling gem, and definitely not a toy, still comes in [just] below £100 and can be run on a plank 

[davknigh]

The whole thing with the Peckett, or any other industrial, is that you can model something that looks realistic in a small space. True it won't look like an A4 or a Deltic with 12 on but how many have the space for something like that? As an added bonus the Peckett is controllable at slow speeds so it can be run in a reasonable manner. I look forward to the day the other makers catch on and bring out a few more makes for us to enjoy!

 

Cheers,

 

David

[tomparryharry]

Our shunting plank meets all of my current requirements. It's only 4' x1' x1', and due to our home requirements, can be safely stowed away. If I want to ring the changes, I only need to change the stock, or print some new cards. I'm doing a local show in November, so one little job is to 'work up' with some perhaps some new stock, and perhaps a new locomotive or so. I won't use the MSC Peckett, because I perceive a time when Hornby turned out a first -rate model, and I applauded that. If the Lilleshall model arrives, I'll get one, and another Peckett as well. I'm awaiting the DJM 18" austerity in MSC 'Ghost Grey' , as both it, and the newer Peckett, have a home on the new setup.  

 

For operability, the 8-wagon puzzle has some 40,000+ permutations. The 24-wagon puzzle has some 20 million plus permutations. That should keep me going for an hour or so!

 

Happy modelling!

 

Ian.

[Jenny Emily]

Just ordered Pecketts from Arcadia. I could only get two of the three, because Tim had been on holiday when the extra two were announced and they sold out in 48 hours. Luckily the local rep managed to snag him some of one, so he wasn't left high and dry. It seems odd if Hornby don't enlarge the production runs given that there must be a lot of demand from actual model shops wanting to buy the models that Hornby aren't filling.

[Caledonian]

Just ordered Pecketts from Arcadia. I could only get two of the three, because Tim had been on holiday when the extra two were announced and they sold out in 48 hours. Luckily the local rep managed to snag him some of one, so he wasn't left high and dry. It seems odd if Hornby don't enlarge the production runs given that there must be a lot of demand from actual model shops wanting to buy the models that Hornby aren't filling.

 

Seemingly its down to the availability of production slots in China. Hornby themselves haven't commented but a possible reason for the delay in releasing the Lilleshall one is that they may have exchanged their original slot for a bigger one later in the year.

[Gerald Henriksen]

Ah, didn't say its a magic bullet... It probably isn't going to be easy at all to entice people in "cold", but I still think that for exactly the reasons suggested the "I had a trainset when I was a kid" re-entrants may be a shrinking market and that "designer" shunting layouts are more likely to appeal.

 

Another factor to consider here is cost. There are endless arguments over the relative cost of locomotive models now and in the golden days of Hornby Dublo, and I'm happy to accept the arithmetic telling me that twas ever thus, but while an established [and well-heeled] modeller might not balk at shelling out something in the region of £150 for a must-have passenger loco and as much again for a few carriages [and yes experienced ones will shop around], for someone coming in from the outside that can be a daunting investment, which might literally daunt him - or her.

 

 

Lionel Strang, who has a podcast, believes that a lot of what is bringing people into the hobby these days is YouTube, because people can spend hours watching videos on YouTube getting sidetracked onto topics suggested by YouTube.  Watching of videos of model trains (or perhaps real ones), can then spark the interest of something to do.

 

As for the cost, while I don't want to dismiss it as irrelevant, its worth noting that any hobby (photography, drones, model cars, golfing, music, etc.) are all expensive and when looked at from that viewpoint model trains aren't unusual.

[Caledonian]

Lionel Strang, who has a podcast, believes that a lot of what is bringing people into the hobby these days is YouTube, because people can spend hours watching videos on YouTube getting sidetracked onto topics suggested by YouTube.  Watching of videos of model trains (or perhaps real ones), can then spark the interest of something to do.

 

As for the cost, while I don't want to dismiss it as irrelevant, its worth noting that any hobby (photography, drones, model cars, golfing, music, etc.) are all expensive and when looked at from that viewpoint model trains aren't unusual.

 

As to the first, although I don't indulge myself, I would have thought that the kind of stuff to appeal on You Tube would be the up close and detailed stuff which shunting planks [and Pecketts] can provide. rather than big roundy roundy layouts.

 

As for the cost; this is never going to be a cheap hobby but when it comes to the start-up costs a small tank engine and a few wagons provides a more viable entry point that a pacific. Of course once sucked in...

[Jenny Emily]

Funnily enough, the most watched model railway videos on Youtube are all pretty much how-to guides for building aspects of model railways. If I look at all the videos that I've done, my most watched ten videos are pretty much all of this ilk. After that, people really like to watch box opening and review videos, especially of big ticket locomotives. It has been said to me that this comes from a need by some to experience in the opening up of a new toy without the expense of having to buy it. Similar videos featuring rolling stock gets far less in the way of views. Videos of cab rides and even trains running on layouts often struggle to get the same number of views as these box openings and reviews, and never obtain the kind of views that how-to guides get. 

[tomparryharry]

As to the first, although I don't indulge myself, I would have thought that the kind of stuff to appeal on You Tube would be the up close and detailed stuff which shunting planks [and Pecketts] can provide. rather than big roundy roundy layouts.

 

As for the cost; this is never going to be a cheap hobby but when it comes to the start-up costs a small tank engine and a few wagons provides a more viable entry point that a pacific. Of course once sucked in...

 

As to the first, although I don't indulge myself, I would have thought that the kind of stuff to appeal on You Tube would be the up close and detailed stuff which shunting planks [and Pecketts] can provide. rather than big roundy roundy layouts.

 

As for the cost; this is never going to be a cheap hobby but when it comes to the start-up costs a small tank engine and a few wagons provides a more viable entry point that a pacific. Of course once sucked in...

I'd respectfully suggest that getting 'sucked in' is the new direction in railway modelling. I would dearly love a 72xx, with it's attendant 65+ wagons, but it's perhaps not so commonplace as might have been before. However....The pretty little Peckett, in a high fidelity guise, will undoubtedly please most viewers, and probably in an indoor domestic situation as well. Once the locomotive arrives, then a wagon or two, and then another, perhaps a point and a length of track.... Where's the controller? And so it goes.

 

In our domestic situation, the allowance of the ratio of locomotives/wagons is just about right. This means I can stow kit away, unobtrusively. Mrs Smith might baulk about a 'Duchess & 16 on', however much I'd want to do it. In real terms, a full length train is pushing towards £1,000. Why wouldn't, or shouldn't, be any different? So for now, it's the smaller layout, possibly less stock as well, but much higher quality and fidelity. Hornby, and other producers, have seem to have tapped into the market at just the right time. I can 'drop in' a locomotive or a wagon or two, without too much fuss.  

 

I look forward to seeing more industrial & shunting plank layouts. The domestic scenario is taking the market that way. For me, it's a bit of a no brainer.

 

Ian.

[SDJR7F88]

Peckett's really are perfect for Little Layouts. Here's a video of my Micro Exhibition Layout, "Compton Quay", which stands on top of the family Iron Board (no ironing can be done when I'm out displaying the layout)  , made from an old book shelf. It features my MSC Peckett, along side my MSC Sentinel, plus a number of other visiting Locomotives, which a few friends brought along to the show. I normally only need about 5 to 7 wagons on the layout at events, and it keep me busy for hours    

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol2sLx4sV80

Edited August 27, 2017 by SDJR7F88

[Caledonian]

Exactly so.

 

The Peckett or equivalent plus shunting plank works on so many levels. Big trains need big layouts which generally means the loft or a club, time, patience, money and commitment. 

 

Middle Engine Lane, my stretched Minories sits unobtrusively downstairs fitting with domestic life all around it and according to mood I can ring the changes between various industrial/colliery set-ups and Caledonian/LNER goods; each just requiring a couple of tank engines and a box-file of wagons.

 

My only problem is a sentimental reluctance to dispose of the now redundant tender locomotives and extensive coaching stock.

[Mark Saunders]

Exactly so.

 

The Peckett or equivalent plus shunting plank works on so many levels. Big trains need big layouts which generally means the loft or a club, time, patience, money and commitment. 

 

Middle Engine Lane, my stretched Minories sits unobtrusively downstairs fitting with domestic life all around it and according to mood I can ring the changes between various industrial/colliery set-ups and Caledonian/LNER goods; each just requiring a couple of tank engines and a box-file of wagons.

 

My only problem is a sentimental reluctance to dispose of the now redundant tender locomotives and extensive coaching stock.

 

It is not that hard to dispose of after a few years of storage and as you look at them with the benefit of hindsight you wonder why you bought them in the first place!

 

Mark Saunders

[PaulRhB]

Unfortunately from some comments I suspect quite a few bought Pecketts in the frenzy without really asking why

The second batch selling so fast is great but I do suspect a lot of chancers in there too. Still as long as they sell so Hornby makes more in the future I don't mind if their second hand value crashes

Slowly collecting the bits to finish my Peckett layout and just enjoying a super little model.

[John M Upton]

Isn't it technically third batch?  The black one was announced for the 2017 catalogue which makes that one the second batch as far as I am concerned, all be it that it is starting to look like all three newbies may now turn up together.  

 

I am still sticking with my black one on pre-order, I seem to be getting sucked into the idea of a wharf line on my layout with a couple of industrials running around....

[gz3xzf]

Are there any dates for the release of these models, I am particularly interested in the new black liveried one (R3550)?

 

I have had a look on the Hornby website and forum and couldn't find anything about expected dates.

[MarkSG]

Are there any dates for the release of these models, I am particularly interested in the new black liveried one (R3550)?

 

I have had a look on the Hornby website and forum and couldn't find anything about expected dates.

 

Hattons are suggesting March 2018 for the black one (Lilleshall livery), May 2018 for the works green number 560 and December 2018 for the works green "Niclausse". But they're also showing the black one as already sold out on pre-order, so if you haven't already ordered it you may struggle to get one. The other two are still available, at least at Hattons.

 

I'm mildly surprised by that, because I would have thought that a works livery is more suitable for a generic freelance layout (which is why I've ordered a number 560), and so would sell better than one in a more specific livery. But I suppose that, in this case, the Lilleshall livery is pretty generic anyway - it doesn't have the name anywhere on it - and maybe people prefer their small industrial locos to be black. The Lilleshall livery is also a good base for customisation, as you could easily add some additional lettering without needing to change much, whereas customising the works livery versions would require a more extensive repaint.

[Steamport Southport]

The black one was announced well before the others. I think everyone panicked and ordered them so they wouldn't lose out. But then again, many of us like black engines.

 

 

Still some available for order if you shop around the slightly smaller retailers.

 

 

 

Jason

[Porcy Mane]

I think everyone panicked and ordered them so they wouldn't lose out. But then again, many of us like black engines.

 

and then there was probably those that thought, Ooo, I'll have a few of those and make a pretty penny dribbling them out  every now and then on Ebay looking at the silly prices some were fetching at shows and auction.

 

Hopefully Hornby announcing further runs and Hattons saying their planned AB will be here in January with plenty to go around will have firmly pi$$ed on the speculators chips.

 

Serves the bassa's right!

 

P