For those who like Aircraft pictures

[Rugd1022]

I came across these recently whilst looking at historical FIAT stuff...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[KeithMacdonald]

2 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

April 9th, DL0176.  The on-board flight tracker was indicating exactly 50,000ft for most of the flight......

 

Is that the correct flight number? Flight Tracker doesn't recognise it.

 

[55020]

2 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

April 9th, DL0176.  The on-board flight tracker was indicating exactly 50,000ft for most of the flight......

 

Sadly it must have been telling porkies, as the actual cruising altitude from offshore Eastern Canada until decent into Dublin was FL400, with a "GPS altitude" of about 40,500'.   

[Jeff Smith]

Ok, going back on a Virgin A350 on Tuesday so will monitor.....

[jjb1970]

I like the A350, I think the 787 is a nicer looking aircraft but maybe because the A350 is a relatively young type I find they're fitted out to a consistently good standard inside. This is probably one of the most boring liveries in the sky, which is a shame as in general I like Chinese airline liveries and whenever I've flown China Eastern I have found them pretty good. White liveries do tend to get criticised by enthusiasts but an attractive tail fin and or a nice font/style for the company name can do quite a bit. With this livery I just find everything about it painfully dull. Taken from a Turkish A350 next in line for take off, it's quite unusual for this runway to be used for take off, it's usually used for landing 

 

 

 

Edited April 21 by jjb1970

[55020]

1 hour ago, KeithMacdonald said:

Is that the correct flight number? Flight Tracker doesn't recognise it.

 

If you try DL176 you'll find it.

[rob D2]

I like the 350 design , it’s like a slightly melted 787 ;)

you can tell all these things come off similar design aerodynamic cad whatnots …they all look fairly similar , wasn’t the case years ago ..

 

I’ve just purchased this mug in recognition of my time on the plastic jet …it’s an engine mug ..Boeing do some good merch 

[Ron Ron Ron]

6 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

I recently flew from Atlanta to Dublin on a Delta A350 and was surprised that we cruised at 50,000ft!

 

4 hours ago, 55020 said:

 

I hope not, as the service ceiling (the highest density altitude where a small rate of climb is still possible) of an A359 is 43,100 feet.

What was the date and flight number, as FR24 replay will let you check what Flight Level you ended up at?

 

 

Aircraft don't cruise at Altitudes, but at Flight Levels, based on the standard altimeter pressure setting.

Flight levels remain constant, but vary in altitude (both geographically and with time), depending on the local atmospheric pressure setting at any one particular position.

 

Assuming the A350 could find conditions to get up that high, the nearest cruising levels available are FL490 and FL510, which approximate to (+ or -) 49,000 and 51,000 ft.

There is no cruising level analogous with 50,000ft.

 

Normally, you would expect to see long haul flight A350's cruising between FL350 and FL430.

Above that, the only civil aircraft will (normally) be high performance business jets.

 

If you're interested, Mickey Mouse FR24 has a filtering option that allows you to filter out aircraft above (and/or below) a selectable altitude.

Set it to show only aircraft above 43,500ft and see if you can spot any civil airliners.

 

 

.

Edited April 21 by Ron Ron Ron

[Ron Ron Ron]

7 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

......I’ve just purchased this mug in recognition of my time on the plastic jet …it’s an engine mug ..Boeing do some good merch 

 

 

I bought a 737 MAX mug, on my visit to the Everett visitor centre a few years ago.

The handle fell off in the dishwasher !

 

 

 

.

[298]

Not my video of VP-BDA landing at Kemble yesterday, delivered new to Basel 9 years ago but never completed as a business jet as intended. The airframe has less than 20 hours flying time and is likely to be parted out for spares.

 

 

[KeithMacdonald]

2 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

If you're interested, Mickey Mouse FR24 has a filtering option that allows you to filter out aircraft above (and/or below) a selectable altitude.

Set it to show only aircraft above 43,500ft and see if you can spot any civil airliners.

 

Just played with that. Nearly everything above FL400 is private business jets, most at FL410. Just a very small handful of BA flights at FL410 to FL430.  Most of what I can see at FL450+ is a Gulfstream.

 

It reminds me of a story from a friend of a friend on traffic control at Prestwick, perhaps 30+ years ago. One transatlantic flight requested permission to descend from FL600 feet to FL400 . "Say again?" was said twice. Might be an urban myth? Or a U2/SR71?

[rob D2]

36 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Just played with that. Nearly everything above FL400 is private business jets, most at FL410. Just a very small handful of BA flights at FL410 to FL430.  Most of what I can see at FL450+ is a Gulfstream.

 

It reminds me of a story from a friend of a friend on traffic control at Prestwick, perhaps 30+ years ago. One transatlantic flight requested permission to descend from FL600 feet to FL400 . "Say again?" was said twice. Might be an urban myth? Or a U2/SR71?

Dunno how high Concorde went . I think both U2 and the blackbird could manage that high ?

 

[The Pilotman]

4 hours ago, rob D2 said:

I like the 350 design , it’s like a slightly melted 787 ;)

you can tell all these things come off similar design aerodynamic cad whatnots …they all look fairly similar , wasn’t the case years ago ..

 

I’ve just purchased this mug in recognition of my time on the plastic jet …it’s an engine mug ..Boeing do some good merch 

I like the speed tape round the top.

[St Enodoc]

12 hours ago, Night Train said:

Been to the Cosford ATC tower a few times for work related purposes. Always guaranteed a good mug of tea there. I always thought this Jaguar looked partiucularly splendid.

 

My memories of Jaguars are from the early 1980s. They made an excellent 0800 alarm call when we were moored in Shepherd's Marina, Gibraltar...

[newbryford]

7 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Just played with that. Nearly everything above FL400 is private business jets, most at FL410. Just a very small handful of BA flights at FL410 to FL430.  Most of what I can see at FL450+ is a Gulfstream.

 

It reminds me of a story from a friend of a friend on traffic control at Prestwick, perhaps 30+ years ago. One transatlantic flight requested permission to descend from FL600 feet to FL400 . "Say again?" was said twice. Might be an urban myth? Or a U2/SR71?

 

 

Truth or myth?

 

 

 Several pilots are on with ATC, each asking for a higher altitude as they try to out-do each other. Then an SR-71 comes on, requesting FL600. The controller says "If you can reach it, you can have it". The pilot responds "... descending FL600".

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

9 hours ago, rob D2 said:

Dunno how high Concorde went ……

 

Concorde crossed the Atlantic in what is known as a “cruise climb”.

A gradual increase in cruising level through the duration of the cruise phase of the flight.

 

After departure from London or Paris and being threaded through the regular traffic, it climbed out to an initial subsonic cruising level (FL280), following special designated routes, to reach the start of the dedicated Concorde oceanic tracks.

Because of the supersonic “bang”, it wasn’t allowed to fly at supersonic speeds, until over the sea.

On reaching the “acceleration point” beyond the coastline, they hit the reheat and began climbing rapidly and accelerating past Mach 1 towards supersonic cruising speed.

IIRC, they levelled off and began the gradual cruise climb somewhere between FL470 and FL500, reaching between FL580 and FL600, by the end of the supersonic part of the flight, on the other side of the ocean.

 

Unlike the normal Oceanic tracks, which change on a twice daily basis, to take into account the jet stream and other significant weather, the Concorde tracks were fixed.

They were obviously operating much higher and separated from all the other ocean air traffic.

There were 3 parallel tracks, SM, SN and SO.

Normally Westbound, Eastbound and an alternative overflow track, respectively; although the routes were bi-directional if needed.

BA and AF Concorde departures were timed so they would follow one another, but if the minimum separation at the track entry point was being eroded once they became airborne, the following aircraft would be re-cleared to the overflow track.

 

Coming off the oceanic Concorde tracks, they would request descent from the top of the cruise climb (whatever they had reached by the end of the cruise) and then carried out quite a speedy decent passing through a transonic phase, before achieving stable subsonic flight and eventually levelling off at (IIRC) FL290, as they arrived over land.

The inbound routing fed them into the regular airway system.

 

Some of you might remember stories about Concorde supersonic booms being heard in the West Country (Devon and Somerset) and the Channel Islands.

The supersonic shock wave would travel ahead of the aircraft and if the atmospheric conditions were right (or wrong, depending how you look at it), Concorde’s boom would continue forward towards landfall in the Bristol Channel (for London), or the Channel Islands and northern Brittany (for Paris ), even after the aircraft had decelerated through subsonic transition long before crossing the coast.

 

The Paris outbound route crossed the French coast near Le Havre, where they would begin supersonic acceleration and a rapid climb.

The route took them to the north of the Cherbourg peninsula in UK airspace, before turning SW down the middle of the English Channel, until passing abeam Lands End, where they would turn westwards towards the entry point of their cleared oceanic Concorde track.

 

Paris inbounds normally hit landfall as they passed directly over Jersey eastbound, crossing over the French coast just east of there.

However, there was an alternative, extended route that followed the track of the outbound route, eastbound up the Channel towards Dieppe.

This allowed the AF Concorde to stay supersonic for a bit longer, but it was only used occasionally.

 

London outbounds passed over the Bristol area before crossing the coast near Weston-super-Mare, prior to reaching the acceleration point out over the Bristol Channel, heading towards the Oceanic track entry.

Inbounds followed a similar route after leaving the eastbound track and descending to the subsonic flight level before crossing the coast and merging into the regular route structure.

 

.

 

[5944]

On 20/04/2024 at 19:22, Ron Ron Ron said:

BA377 is a full size model Spitfire IX

 

 

.

 

https://iconic-ww2aircraft.co.uk/mark-ix-spitfire-1

 

That would make it more original than a lot of the Spitfires flying today! 

 

Regarding the Jaguars at Cosford, a lot have moved on and aren't operational. Cosford have got three Hawks and the Typhoon prototype that was previously on display at Duxford for training. 

 

Talking of Typoons, ZJ913 was rolled out this morning for the cameras, ready for the 2024 airshow season...

 

 

Oooh....! Appears ZJ914 "Blackjack" will be the spare jet this season.

[Flying Pig]

10 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

London outbounds passed over the Bristol area before crossing the coast near Weston-super-Mare, prior to reaching the acceleration point out over the Bristol Channel, heading towards the Oceanic track entry.

 

They used to pass just south of me in North Wilts and if conditions were right I could follow them westbound all the way to the turn onto a southwesterly heading down the Bristol Channel. It was particularly dramatic just after a late autumn sunset if a Concorde was leaving a sunlit contrail.

 

 

 

[rob D2]

1 hour ago, 5944 said:

 

https://iconic-ww2aircraft.co.uk/mark-ix-spitfire-1

 

That would make it more original than a lot of the Spitfires flying today! 

 

Regarding the Jaguars at Cosford, a lot have moved on and aren't operational. Cosford have got three Hawks and the Typhoon prototype that was previously on display at Duxford for training. 

 

Talking of Typoons, ZJ913 was rolled out this morning for the cameras, ready for the 2024 airshow season...

 

 

Oooh....! Appears ZJ914 "Blackjack" will be the spare jet this season.

Think I prefer the black one. They should make it gloss black 

[Flying Pig]

18 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Some of you might remember stories about Concorde supersonic booms being heard in the West Country (Devon and Somerset) and the Channel Islands.

The supersonic shock wave would travel ahead of the aircraft and if the atmospheric conditions were right (or wrong, depending how you look at it), Concorde’s boom would continue forward towards landfall in the Bristol Channel (for London), or the Channel Islands and northern Brittany (for Paris ), even after the aircraft had decelerated through subsonic transition long before crossing the coast.

 

 

I've read claims by Hunter pilots that they used that effect to fake supersonic overflight of US bases.  The Hunter would go supersonic in a dive, but was firmly subsonic in level flight.

[Barry Ten]

On 22/04/2024 at 02:14, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

 

Some of you might remember stories about Concorde supersonic booms being heard in the West Country (Devon and Somerset) and the Channel Islands.

The supersonic shock wave would travel ahead of the aircraft and if the atmospheric conditions were right (or wrong, depending how you look at it), Concorde’s boom would continue forward towards landfall in the Bristol Channel (for London), or the Channel Islands and northern Brittany (for Paris ), even after the aircraft had decelerated through subsonic transition long before crossing the coast.

 

 

.

 

 

The "9 0'clock bump" was a well-known phenomenon in South Wales in the late 70s/early 80s - someone will correct me but I believe it was always around 9 in the evening. when there'd be a general muffled thud in the neighborhood. About a decade earlier, when we were living in Cornwall, we'd get a similar effect on garage doors during Concorde's test flights, but they happened at random times of the day.

 

[Andy7]

On 22/04/2024 at 02:14, Ron Ron Ron said:

Concorde crossed the Atlantic in what is known as a “cruise climb”.

A gradual increase in cruising level through the duration of the cruise phase of the flight.

 

After departure from London or Paris and being threaded through the regular traffic, it climbed out to an initial subsonic cruising level (FL280), following special designated routes, to reach the start of the dedicated Concorde oceanic tracks.

Because of the supersonic “bang”, it wasn’t allowed to fly at supersonic speeds, until over the sea.

On reaching the “acceleration point” beyond the coastline, they hit the reheat and began climbing rapidly and accelerating past Mach 1 towards supersonic cruising speed.

IIRC, they levelled off and began the gradual cruise climb somewhere between FL470 and FL500, reaching between FL580 and FL600, by the end of the supersonic part of the flight, on the other side of the ocean.

 

Unlike the normal Oceanic tracks, which change on a twice daily basis, to take into account the jet stream and other significant weather, the Concorde tracks were fixed.

They were obviously operating much higher and separated from all the other ocean air traffic.

There were 3 parallel tracks, SM, SN and SO.

Normally Westbound, Eastbound and an alternative overflow track, respectively; although the routes were bi-directional if needed.

BA and AF Concorde departures were timed so they would follow one another, but if the minimum separation at the track entry point was being eroded once they became airborne, the following aircraft would be re-cleared to the overflow track.

 

Coming off the oceanic Concorde tracks, they would request descent from the top of the cruise climb (whatever they had reached by the end of the cruise) and then carried out quite a speedy decent passing through a transonic phase, before achieving stable subsonic flight and eventually levelling off at (IIRC) FL290, as they arrived over land.

The inbound routing fed them into the regular airway system.

 

Some of you might remember stories about Concorde supersonic booms being heard in the West Country (Devon and Somerset) and the Channel Islands.

The supersonic shock wave would travel ahead of the aircraft and if the atmospheric conditions were right (or wrong, depending how you look at it), Concorde’s boom would continue forward towards landfall in the Bristol Channel (for London), or the Channel Islands and northern Brittany (for Paris ), even after the aircraft had decelerated through subsonic transition long before crossing the coast.

 

The Paris outbound route crossed the French coast near Le Havre, where they would begin supersonic acceleration and a rapid climb.

The route took them to the north of the Cherbourg peninsula in UK airspace, before turning SW down the middle of the English Channel, until passing abeam Lands End, where they would turn westwards towards the entry point of their cleared oceanic Concorde track.

 

Paris inbounds normally hit landfall as they passed directly over Jersey eastbound, crossing over the French coast just east of there.

However, there was an alternative, extended route that followed the track of the outbound route, eastbound up the Channel towards Dieppe.

This allowed the AF Concorde to stay supersonic for a bit longer, but it was only used occasionally.

 

London outbounds passed over the Bristol area before crossing the coast near Weston-super-Mare, prior to reaching the acceleration point out over the Bristol Channel, heading towards the Oceanic track entry.

Inbounds followed a similar route after leaving the eastbound track and descending to the subsonic flight level before crossing the coast and merging into the regular route structure.

 

.

 

I grew up in mid Cornwall and around 1700 ish most days we would hear Concorde go supersonic over the Bristol Channel (a long way from us). I am 43 now so around 1995 we are talking, lovely memories. Thanks for the reminder.

[KeithMacdonald]

On 21/04/2024 at 16:51, rob D2 said:

Dunno how high Concorde went

 

I didn't know either, so I looked it up.

 

Quote

Concorde's maximum cruising altitude was 60,000 feet

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concorde#Flight_characteristics

[woodenhead]

Bit of low level flying by bombers in WW2.

 

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

1 hour ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

I didn't know either, so I looked it up.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concorde#Flight_characteristics

In normal operation, Concorde reached its maximum altitude at the end of its Atlantic crossing (see my post above about the “cruise climb”), before starting its descent and deceleration to subsonic flight.

 

Eastbound, it rarely ever reached FL600 and would normally start its descent from somewhere between FL570 and FL590 at the end of the cruise phase, before descending to subsonic flight at FL290 as it approached landfall.

 

 

.