Hornby Class 87 - Confirmed Newly Tooled Version for 2017 !

[MGR Hooper!]

The blue one had a good finish - the blue looked correct and the yellow faces had good density. I couldn't see any blemishes in any of the paintwork. The roof well hada matt cream or off-white finish, which we all commented would very soon have weathered down to an overall gunge colour.

 

I did forget to mention that the nameplates are printed on and actually looked quite convincing to me, but there were also etched plates in the detail pack.

My friend did not have the Intercity version with him, so I cannot comment on that one apart from passing on what he said about the pantograph.

Thanks! And agreed, even the Bachmann Class 85 in BR Blue seems to have a bright roof but that's what it was when in pristine condition

[MGR Hooper!]

In this case with mine, it would have the head lights on if pushing, which is probably worse than having the tail lights on.

I actually don't mind the tail lights being on even when there's a rake behind it (I like that effect of the tail lights on the ends of the coach). But the headlight being on when pushing s rake will look a bit silly.

Edited August 19, 2018 by MGR Hooper!

[gazwire]

It looks a fantastic model. Just one thing, does it have/or is it missing the orange stripe around the top?

[Mad McCann]

It looks quite absent in the above photograph which would be correct for circa 1978. They only seemed to appear about 1987.

 

D

[caradoc]

I actually don't mind the tail lights being on even when there's a rake behind it (I like that effect of the tail lights on the ends of the coach). But the headlight being on when pushing s rake will look a bit silly.

 

That's your choice of course but having loco taillights lit when hauling a train is totally unprototypical, and there should be a means of switching them off on a model on both DC and DCC operation.

[newbryford]

In this case with mine, it would have the head lights on if pushing, which is probably worse than having the tail lights on.

 

 

 

I actually don't mind the tail lights being on even when there's a rake behind it (I like that effect of the tail lights on the ends of the coach). But the headlight being on when pushing s rake will look a bit silly.

 

It's not difficult to have switched tail lights in this day and age of 21 pin decoders. (It was proposed as far back as the Dapol Class 22 but never happened)

 

(I've used the colour codes as that should make it clearer than F0f F0r, AUX1, AUX2 etc)

 

The default for decoders is headlights front and rear with direction using the F0 key. These are the white wire and yellow wire outputs. (if the opposite tails are wired in then, they come on also)

The green wire and purple wire are operated by the F1 and F2 buttons.

 

So if the tails are wired separately - it's really quite simple.

Use F0 if the loco is hauling the train. F1/F2 are off.

If the loco is pushing, F0 is off and the relevant F1 or F2 is on.

 

For non-DCC users - the 21 pin blanking plug connects the headlight to the correct taillight and then have a fuel tank mounted switch in the tail lamp circuit (as Bachmann do on their locos). I've modified a few for switched tails and simply left the tail switch on.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[MGR Hooper!]

It looks a fantastic model. Just one thing, does it have/or is it missing the orange stripe around the top?

Not necessarily

 

http://www.railphotoarchive.org/rpc_zoom.php?img=0140020381000&aid=&_FACT=100&_UP=25&InFrame=&_PAGE=

 

http://www.railphotoarchive.org/rpc_zoom.php?img=1234020417000&aid=&_FACT=100&_UP=25&InFrame=&_PAGE=

[ThaneofFife]

the orange cant rail stripe came in earlier than 1987.

 

and I believe these are 8 pin dcc sockets not 21 pin.

[newbryford]

 

 

and I believe these are 8 pin dcc sockets not 21 pin.

 

Edited August 19, 2018 by newbryford

[Andrew F]

the orange cant rail stripe came in earlier than 1987.

 

and I believe these are 8 pin dcc sockets not 21 pin.

 

The orange stripe came in early 1979 I think; not sure if any were without at the end of 1980.

[BR(S)]

and I believe these are 8 pin dcc sockets not 21 pin.

This is confirmed on the Hatton's, Kernow and DB Models' product pages. Does seem amazing for a new tooling product!

Edited August 19, 2018 by BR(S)

[Wild Boar Fell]

Wasn't there something about Hornby standardising (where possible) with 8 Pin decoders on another thread, even modifying some 21 pin locos to 8 pin on latest release. Think it was something to do with TTS being 8-Pin. May be wrong.

[No Decorum]

The model looks fantastic, my personal disappointment comes with the lights however. I am really hoping Hornby have put included an option on 87010 to turn off the lights completely at one end. Reason being, I intend to have her on a rake of matching Oxford Rail Mk3's with a Hornby IC DVT on the other end. So to have an option where the end of the loco that's facing the coaches isn't illuminated would be a massive help. All hope is not lost I suppose as with some hard wiring & tinkering I imagine such a thing could be achieved. Many thanks for the photos. 

 

The way I approach it is to cover the contacts of the unwanted lights with tape. With a functional coupler at one end and pipes and a cosmetic coupler at the other, I’m only going to run the thing in one direction anyway (apart from reversing onto a train). If topping and tailing, the tail lights are blanked off on one loco and the headlights are blanked off on the other. Although I agree that It would be much better if the lights were to be fully switchable on DCC. Dapol’s 68 is exemplary in this respect.

[Crewlisle]

Never mind the lights, the most important omission is a proper usable BW high speed metal sprung pantograph.  Where do you think it gets its power from?  Why concern yourself with nitty gritty details when its description is a '25 Kv Class 87 loco' but it cannot draw any power from the OLE?

 

Lovely model & I would buy one but it does not have a useable pantograph.  I would love to buy one with Executive Livery but I will now have to wait for the Bachmann Class 90.

 

Peter

[PrestburyJack]

Never mind the lights, the most important omission is a proper usable BW high speed metal sprung pantograph. Where do you think it gets its power from? Why concern yourself with nitty gritty details when its description is a '25 Kv Class 87 loco' but it cannot draw any power from the OLE?

 

Lovely model & I would buy one but it does not have a useable pantograph. I would love to buy one with Executive Livery but I will now have to wait for the Bachmann Class 90.

 

Peter

I thought Hornby models used 12v DC; surely 25kv AC would melt it?

[dogbox321]

I thought Hornby models used 12v DC; surely 25kv AC would melt it?

 

I once politely advised a gentleman on a station with what must have been an 8ft+ length of copper pipe to be very careful at Kidsgrove station because of the 25Kv overheads.  He told me not to worry as his shoes had rubber soles so he would be insulated, and it wouldn't touch him!  It was nothing personal, but being a mere mortal - I just stood as far away from him as I could!  

 

Regards,

 

C.

[MGR Hooper!]

Never mind the lights, the most important omission is a proper usable BW high speed metal sprung pantograph.  Where do you think it gets its power from?  Why concern yourself with nitty gritty details when its description is a '25 Kv Class 87 loco' but it cannot draw any power from the OLE?

 

Lovely model & I would buy one but it does not have a useable pantograph.  I would love to buy one with Executive Livery but I will now have to wait for the Bachmann Class 90.

 

Peter

Simples...Hornby went down the road for an accurate looking pantograph and not functional.

 

- Most people don't even have OHE. A majority are going to run the loco on track that doesn't have OHE.

- Some people will just have OHE masts (sprung pantographs aren't recommended here).

- Most other also have many accessories that may be too low (tunnels, signal gantries, bridges etc).

- A poseable pantograph is the best one in terms of accuracy and realism as one can raise it to the desired height, thus suiting a majority of people.

- There is always the unrealistic Bachmann one if you wish to have some apparent realistic working pantograhs.

- Unless DCC controlled a normal sprung pantograph still requires "the hand of God" to operate it.

 

So thank you Hornby for adopting the better approach....

[MGR Hooper!]

Wasn't there something about Hornby standardising (where possible) with 8 Pin decoders on another thread, even modifying some 21 pin locos to 8 pin on latest release. Think it was something to do with TTS being 8-Pin. May be wrong.

I also recall reading that somewhere.

 

And as backward as it may see, I think we can take it as a sign that TTS is a success (especially for diesels and hopefully electrics). You get what you pay for and I don't think DCC sound can get any cheaper. It's not all that bad as people make it seem and the easiest upgrade is a better speaker.

[298]

Simples...Hornby went down the road for an accurate looking pantograph and not functional.

No, regardless of their decision they went down the road of not giving the consumer a choice, and once again it's up to the aftermarket to supply the necessary parts to correct this.

[ThaneofFife]

picard-facepalm.jpg

 

As per the review in Hornby magazine Issue 132 - 8 pin socket, yes unless Pickard is simply annoyed that its not 21 pin?

[MGR Hooper!]

No, regardless of their decision they went down the road of not giving the consumer a choice, and once again it's up to the aftermarket to supply the necessary parts to correct this.

No, they went down the most sensible path. The most cost effective and most sensible path. I listed reasons above which you didn't include in your quote of my post.

 

Giving the customer's a choice would simply cost more. If people really want a sprung pantograph, why not start a poll and gather as many signatures as you can and pass on the results to Hornby. It won't even cross 500. If it does maybe Hornby can make a drop in replacement unrealistic sprung pantograph.

 

And as far as I see it, using aftermarket supplies isn't a bad thing, especially if a small supplier or cottage industry comes up with one, you'll be supporting a small business. Why not ask Judith Edge to design a drop in replacement sprung pantograph kit?

[ThaneofFife]

im going to have to not go along with the train of thought that most buyers will run the model without OHE.   I bet it was rife in the Lima or even more recent Limby days for the average at home layout modeller or train set runner (of which I was one) but my view is that we have turned a corner for AC electrics in this country with the introduction of brand new models (85, 86, 87, 90, 92, so far) along with Dapol and Peco catenary ranges plus the excellent N Brass gantry kits.  Those crying out for the new models for years like me will want to see the locos in the correct setting although a tiny proportion might purchase the model for mock "dragging" on a diesel only layout.  

 

So maybe it would be more accurate to say many may run the model without actual wires. Many who can afford such expensive AC models and are prepared to pay for the new detail and features will I predict at least go halfway house and equip their layouts with masts, headspans or gantries etc to give as near as damn it the look of an overhead electrified railway.  Then youll get a layer of buyer above that who will go the whole hog and have the contact wires (or already have full catenary on an existing layout) but who knows the growth in AC locos might even spur people on to install wires. 

[Mike at C&M]

For those of you looking to re-number 87.035 when it is released, Railtec transfers have just announced a sheet of locomotive numbers suitable for BR Blue electrics.

 

http://www.railtec-models.com/showitem.php?id=3480 

[JSpencer]

Looking at photos of the new Blue 87, is it's pantograph made from plastic or metal please?

(I have an impression it is plastic from the pics - but that could be just my failing eyesight).

[Legend]

im going to have to not go along with the train of thought that most buyers will run the model without OHE. I bet it was rife in the Lima or even more recent Limby days for the average at home layout modeller or train set runner (of which I was one) but my view is that we have turned a corner for AC electrics in this country with the introduction of brand new models (85, 86, 87, 90, 92, so far) along with Dapol and Peco catenary ranges plus the excellent N Brass gantry kits. Those crying out for the new models for years like me will want to see the locos in the correct setting although a tiny proportion might purchase the model for mock "dragging" on a diesel only layout.

 

So maybe it would be more accurate to say many may run the model without actual wires. Many who can afford such expensive AC models and are prepared to pay for the new detail and features will I predict at least go halfway house and equip their layouts with masts, headspans or gantries etc to give as near as damn it the look of an overhead electrified railway. Then youll get a layer of buyer above that who will go the whole hog and have the contact wires (or already have full catenary on an existing layout) but who knows the growth in AC locos might even spur people on to install wires.

 

I’m not too sure about this . The problem with installing catenary is that it then limits your period of operation. It is quite clear on here that there are some people who buy everything . Running your Stirling Single or latest SE&CR loco doesn’t quite look right under catenary . For the modern enthusiast , yes , I think there are a lot more catenary layouts around , but for the general enthusiast I don’t think so .

 

It is good to have scale pantographs , and I think for the reasons above for most a poseable panto is OK. However Years ago Triang managed to deliver conducting pantos, not very much more expensive than other locos. Their EM2 is still relatively well though of. Non conducting pantos do seem a step back. Those that go up and down are just another DCC frivolity that drives price up

Edited August 20, 2018 by Legend