Karhedron Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 I would also be happy with this being opened up to trade. I am keen to get a quality King, I am not really fussed about perceived "exclusivity". Just my tuppence worth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellseasoned Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 I agree that opening the King up to the trade should be considered. DJM Mermaids are getting really positive reviews and selling out quickly. This should instill confidence in some of those dithering on whether to order a King. A lot of us have shown confidence in the King, but not quite enough as yet. It would be a real shame if options to get it over the line (no pun intended) were not considered and taken if feasible. The one option voiced that I am a bit sceptical about is increasing the price, as much as £20 was suggested. If the King were to fail to make it my money will go on a couple of Castles. One online shop was offering a version at £104, and others may follow suit in the future. Increasing the price of the King could see some interest fall away, especially from those who have said yes although it's not really their region or interest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnlambert Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 No problem here with you offering models to the trade, which sounds like the least risky option. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed-farms Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 The one option voiced that I am a bit sceptical about is increasing the price, as much as £20 was suggested. If the King were to fail to make it my money will go on a couple of Castles. One online shop was offering a version at £104, and others may follow suit in the future. Increasing the price of the King could see some interest fall away, especially from those who have said yes although it's not really their region or interest. Thats my worry about increasing the price, how far do you take it? The higher the price rises the more people will drop out - presumably there would have to an offer to withdraw if the price went higher as Hattons do with models. So will more people dropping out push the price higher until 1 person has to buy 1000ish Kings. It does seem the retail trade is the best option and this would surely have to be King George V so places like Swindon (where the real one is) and York/Shildon (owners) would take a bundle to sell Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gedlee Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 If models are offered to the trade, they will probably only pay a third of the amount that the crowdfunders will have to pay. Then the trade will make a significant profit on the back of the crowdfunders. There is also a danger that some signed up for crowdfunding will withdraw and wait to buy from the trade, hoping for a discount. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_7820 Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 I've put my name down for three Kings. Well, I think I have, but I've never received any acknowledgement at all from Dave, despite sending two emails as per his post a few pages back. I therefore don't know whether I'm on his list or not, and whether the percentage he has quoted includes my three or not. DaveB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted July 4, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 4, 2017 (edited) Surely trade price isn't as little as 1/3 of retail?! Edited July 4, 2017 by njee20 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium NWJ Posted July 4, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 4, 2017 I've put my name down for three Kings. Well, I think I have, but I've never received any acknowledgement at all from Dave, despite sending two emails as per his post a few pages back. I therefore don't know whether I'm on his list or not, and whether the percentage he has quoted includes my three or not. DaveB I have also ordered 2 without acknowledgement, but am hopeful that these are in the figures. However, with reference to the question in hand, I too feel that it is worth trying to offer something to the trade. The timely release of the Mermaids may well drum up a few more orders as they really do show the quality that we could expect from Dave with the new King, but realistically will that interest transform into 200 or so orders? Offering something to the trade could hopefully close that gap. It is a risk for those of us who have signed up that, somewhere down the line, a dealer may sell off stock at a lower price than we have paid: for many of us the prospect of a high quality model to match the recent Castles, and earlier Granges, Halls and Manors outweigh this. I would agree with most of the others here and say yes, open it up to the trade. Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris M Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 Trade would expect to pay just under 70% of retail price and discounter add around 25% mark up on what they have paid the manufacturer. So make the list price £155, sell to the trade at £110 and the trade will discount it down to £138, all very roughly speaking. Obviously VAT needs to be removed from these figures. The list price of the Farish Castle is £139.95 at the moment so maybe the maximum viable rrp for the king is going to be £149.95. I am of course speaking as a customer who knows bu&&er all about the model railway manufacturing business so the above is probably nonsense. Or more succinctly, if support from shops is required to make to the project happen then that is a whole lot better than a dead project. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 Is there a trade outlet interested in an exclusive (extra) version of the King? Or is there a trade outlet (or two) that would take a number at full price wanting to sell them on at a higher price than the subscription price? I know Dave's feelings about Revolution Trains but this seems to be the way they cover shortfalls in subscription numbers. Either way, these bear investigating, phone calls to find out wouldn't in themselves break the bank..... Just a thought Les - sorry but ONE king as a rule loco is as much as I can afford. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 Hi everyone, A quick update on this project. We are very close to giving the green light on this, as although slow, the take up is trickling on, although not to the extent it was, with only single figure orders each week now, which is a shame, but happens. The latest advertising is about to hit the news stands so i hope we get a 'push' from that, and i am sending out press releases again to all the magazines......isn't it amazing how you send out press releases and they have rarely gotten used for this project? One magazine even used space for a project potentially going ahead to announce some that weren't by another manufacturer. Anyway, after the weekend i'll give you all some figures again to show just how close we are, and again invite discussion on progress and thoughts. cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellseasoned Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Hi everyone, A quick update on this project. We are very close to giving the green light on this, as although slow, the take up is trickling on, although not to the extent it was, with only single figure orders each week now, which is a shame, but happens. The latest advertising is about to hit the news stands so i hope we get a 'push' from that, and i am sending out press releases again to all the magazines......isn't it amazing how you send out press releases and they have rarely gotten used for this project? One magazine even used space for a project potentially going ahead to announce some that weren't by another manufacturer. Anyway, after the weekend i'll give you all some figures again to show just how close we are, and again invite discussion on progress and thoughts. cheers Dave Failure to print details that have been given to magazines in good time is infuriating. I have had this happen a few times over the years with fishkeeping mags, when a club's publicity officer. With D.J.models it is all the more surprising given your C.V. / background. Can ommisions be put down to slopiness on the part of editorial staff, or is there maybe another reason ? Personally I feel that the NGS should afford you some greater recognition,when it comes to commisions. I cannot be the only one who has thought this? I'll leave it there or some may think I'm a conspiracy theoryist...especially if I asked which magazine/s failed to print details. To be honest, given you latest post D.J. it makes me keener than ever to show my faith and support through my 2 ordered Kings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeharvey22 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Is there a trade outlet interested in an exclusive (extra) version of the King? Or is there a trade outlet (or two) that would take a number at full price wanting to sell them on at a higher price than the subscription price? I know Dave's feelings about Revolution Trains but this seems to be the way they cover shortfalls in subscription numbers. Either way, these bear investigating, phone calls to find out wouldn't in themselves break the bank..... Just a thought Les. My take on Revolution Trains is that since the Pendolino, if there is a shortfall, the project is cancelled. Retailers who subscribe to sell through their normal channels recognise that there will always be those people late to the party who are prepared to pay a higher price. The Pendolino shortfall was very small at £16k out of 210k. And less than the margin that Kickstarter would have taken out of the project. Collaboration with Rapido Trains on a different crowdfunding basis resulted in abandoning the Kickstarter route altogether. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/840142652/pendolino-uk-n-gauge?ref=discovery Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Personally I feel that the NGS should afford you some greater recognition,when it comes to commisions. I cannot be the only one who has thought this? I'm not sure what is meant by this. What sort of recognition and support are you suggesting? The NGS did print press release details (including CAD image and contact details) of the DJM King project in their magazine (the Journal) which is sent to nearly 6000 members. In fact an announcement about it was made in issue 2/17 (page 17) and further details in issue 3/17 (page 13). The NGS initiates it's own 'commissioned' projects and promotes those. It also looks to recognise all N gauge manufacturers and support enthusiasts. However, it doesn't financially support manufacturers to produce commercial product and the DJM King is not a commission but rather a commercial crowdfunded venture. G. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Mind you, if a magazine has already published in the past that DJM is doing a crowdsourced N gauge King, then they are not going to say the same thing twice unless Dave has something major to announce (like a CAD drawing completed, or other milestone reached etc). News which will get published is something that has not been shared here yet! I have not seen the press release, but "nearly there - just need a few people more and it is a go" may not be chosen for publication. Likewise "Sign up quick or the project dies" would obviously have negative impact. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted July 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) Failure to print details that have been given to magazines in good time is infuriating. I have had this happen a few times over the years with fishkeeping mags, when a club's publicity officer. With D.J.models it is all the more surprising given your C.V. / background. Can ommisions be put down to slopiness on the part of editorial staff, or is there maybe another reason ? It happens to us all and sometimes it can be mystifying why some things get covered and others don't. I'd put it down to time constraints or lack of space rather than any malice. Or is there a trade outlet (or two) that would take a number at full price wanting to sell them on at a higher price than the subscription price? I know Dave's feelings about Revolution Trains but this seems to be the way they cover shortfalls in subscription numbers. Hi Les - yes and no. Retailers have come to us asking to stock our products but they haven't made the difference between a project going ahead or not ie they are a nice to have but they are not making up a potential shortfall. Happy to answer any questions about this but probably better on one of our threads. One point of clarity in relation to something that Dave mentioned - Revolution does not have a factory underwriting any of our projects with the exception of the Pendolino (where we are clear that Rapido took some of the risk). Cheers, Mike Edited July 13, 2017 by red death 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) A magazine will fill itself with features that sell the magazine or bring in money (like advertising). They have to cram the info and images into a predefined space. Articles are generally restricted by size. When two of my articles were published in Warship, I had to keep to 10000 words. You write both to make the article enjoyable to read, coherent and economic on space. You must also complete the story. Mine was on fire control and my research threw up lots of silly ideas which had no influence on development so space was best served explaining things which did. Images were selected that convey additional information. Writers and editors of magazines certainly go through the same thought processes and more. This preparation takes time and once the page looks pretty, late potential additions need to weighed against what is there and whether or not it is blinding news which may have buyers gasping to read it. The internet gets news out quick these days, but magazines can add a quality expertise on top, especially if you have exclusive picks or news for them, or allow them to handle advanced prototypes. Edited July 13, 2017 by JSpencer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris M Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Dave, if you post a suitable advert on here say A5 size, anyone taking a layout to an exhibition before the cut off date could print it off and attach it to their layout. My next exhibition isn't until end of August but would be happy to display one if the crowdfunding is still open. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Dave, if you post a suitable advert on here say A5 size, anyone taking a layout to an exhibition before the cut off date could print it off and attach it to their layout. My next exhibition isn't until end of August but would be happy to display one if the crowdfunding is still open. Good thinking. I'm out with Hawthorn Dene at Ruddington in a couple of weeks and would be willing to do likewise. Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jthjthjth Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 Hi Dave, Any news on how close the project is getting to the required number of sign ups? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted July 26, 2017 Author Share Posted July 26, 2017 Hi everyone, Sorry for the slight delay, but here is the position on the N gauge king project as of today 26th July 2017 So far we are still short of the required numbers, and 10 model sales short of going to tooling. I have today written to all editors of the main magazines that cover steam and N gauge with a press release, so hope that this will help along with the advertising, push the project over the line. However, today i have decided to use what little monies i have available and authorise the start of the N gauge cad/cam conversion from the OO Hattons one. I do this with hope that this will push the project along, and over the line. It is worth noting that all this comes from only 444 modellers, so is rather astounding to correlate this against numbers of reserved models. Where are these N gaugers i ask? Well, maybe once they see the cad? Next update in 1 week. Cheers Dave 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Really excited you are going ahead with this Dave, I have already expressed my interest and I will be backing this to the hilt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 It is worth noting that all this comes from only 444 modellers, so is rather astounding to correlate this against numbers of reserved models. Where are these N gaugers i ask? Well, maybe once they see the cad? Possibly buying up N gauge Desiros and waiting on their Pendolini That was said in jest, you'd think if there was a market for a Castle in N then the same modellers would also want a King, I mean, what sort of GW mainline only needs a Castle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Pilotman Posted July 26, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 26, 2017 So far we are still short of the required numbers, and 10 model sales short of going to tooling. Make than 9, I've just ordered another one 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted July 26, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 26, 2017 Possibly buying up N gauge Desiros and waiting on their Pendolini That was said in jest, you'd think if there was a market for a Castle in N then the same modellers would also want a King, I mean, what sort of GW mainline only needs a Castle. Any one based on Cornwall. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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