New brand, new model - Rails Limited - LNER Dynamometer car

[teaky]

I fail to see why questioning a few details constitutes "ripping apart".  It seems to me that the points have been raised in a reasonable manner and we await a response from the manufacturer or commissioner.  There is sometimes too much criticism and perhaps an element of jumping in too soon but I can't see evidence of this on this occasion.

 

This is an expensive item, in the region of double the cost of a typical coach, and none of the questions would seem ridiculous to me on an ordinary coach let alone a "game changer".

 

 

I have an LNER version on order and so this topic is of interest to me.  My feelings so far are as follows.

 

- Over all impression - Looks great.

- Half tone overprinting - Dreadful in close up.  Rails video shows at over twice actual size and at normal viewing distance.  I am glad the question has been asked because I was particularly struck by how bad it looked in the video (I suspect the video maker was trying to show how good the fine lettering is).  I concluded that at normal viewing distance it looks fine and I'm happy.

- Recording wheel - Clearly out of register.  For £125 plus postage I'm disappointed but this fault is easily corrected.

- Lining - The evidence presented convinces me that the coach should be lined.  This is an important question and one which I feel Rapido and/or Rails ought to answer.

- Roof - I haven't searched for the answer but I think Rapido Bill dealt with this one (possibly in the Rapido newsletter).  It is easier to make a white roof dirty than to paint a grey roof white, so a white roof on the model seems like the best compromise to me.

 

I don't regret placing my order and do not plan to cancel it but at present the lack of lining has taken the shine off things a little.

[Roy Langridge]

I fail to see why questioning a few details constitutes "ripping apart".  It seems to me that the points have been raised in a reasonable manner and we await a response from the manufacturer or commissioner.  There is sometimes too much criticism and perhaps an element of jumping in too soon but I can't see evidence of this on this occasion.

 

This is an expensive item, in the region of double the cost of a typical coach, and none of the questions would seem ridiculous to me on an ordinary coach let alone a "game changer".

 

 

I have an LNER version on order and so this topic is of interest to me.  My feelings so far are as follows.

 

- Over all impression - Looks great.

- Half tone overprinting - Dreadful in close up.  Rails video shows at over twice actual size and at normal viewing distance.  I am glad the question has been asked because I was particularly struck by how bad it looked in the video (I suspect the video maker was trying to show how good the fine lettering is).  I concluded that at normal viewing distance it looks fine and I'm happy.

- Recording wheel - Clearly out of register.  For £125 plus postage I'm disappointed but this fault is easily corrected.

- Lining - The evidence presented convinces me that the coach should be lined.  This is an important question and one which I feel Rapido and/or Rails ought to answer.

- Roof - I haven't searched for the answer but I think Rapido Bill dealt with this one (possibly in the Rapido newsletter).  It is easier to make a white roof dirty than to paint a grey roof white, so a white roof on the model seems like the best compromise to me.

 

I don't regret placing my order and do not plan to cancel it but at present the lack of lining has taken the shine off things a little.

 

You hit my point exactly regarding the dots when you state "I concluded that at normal viewing distance it looks fine and I'm happy.". Why therefore, are some people demanding answers from the manufacturer and Rails as to why the dots are there? For Christ's sake, it is not an issue.

 

Other points, which I deliberately did not comment upon, are more significant and I agree clarity would be nice. That said, just because we live in an age where communications are easier than they once were, it does not give us the right to expect a reply to all questions. Once upon a time a model was released and we bought it, or not, based on what we saw. Why is it expected to be so very different now?

 

Roy

Edited June 15, 2018 by Roy Langridge

[rprodgers]

Other than the question raised about lining for the earlier version which needs clarifying.

 

I am extremely pleased I have ordered one

Edited June 15, 2018 by rprodgers

[micklner]

I made no mention of the black areas - so I am unsure why you bring them into your reply.

 

Does the model look right at normal running  / viewing distances or not? To my mind, and it appears many others, the answer is yes. Therefore, the pixilation is irrelevant, it has been used to achieve the right look.

 

Our models are full of compromises which, if we study them at close range or in enlarged photos, make them look horrendous. I don't see demands of manufacturers to explain the use of screws to hold coupling rods in place etc. Very obvious in zoomed photos and not at all prototypical.

 

There were lots of comments regarding how good the model looked, then somebody spotted the dots, since then there have been many posts on the dots - some being very critical.

 

Roy

 

Post 386 and 388 mention the Black areas. As said before they are not needed as not on the prototype. They look like a very poor afterthought attempt at weathering or a bad mistake at the factory.

 

I take no pleasure in these comments as I said before. I have one on order and await photos of the production version as usual, I will then decide if it worth £125.00.

[Bucoops]

I fail to see why questioning a few details constitutes "ripping apart".  It seems to me that the points have been raised in a reasonable manner and we await a response from the manufacturer or commissioner.  There is sometimes too much criticism and perhaps an element of jumping in too soon but I can't see evidence of this on this occasion.

 

This is an expensive item, in the region of double the cost of a typical coach, and none of the questions would seem ridiculous to me on an ordinary coach let alone a "game changer".

 

 

I have an LNER version on order and so this topic is of interest to me.  My feelings so far are as follows.

 

- Over all impression - Looks great.

- Half tone overprinting - Dreadful in close up.  Rails video shows at over twice actual size and at normal viewing distance.  I am glad the question has been asked because I was particularly struck by how bad it looked in the video (I suspect the video maker was trying to show how good the fine lettering is).  I concluded that at normal viewing distance it looks fine and I'm happy.

- Recording wheel - Clearly out of register.  For £125 plus postage I'm disappointed but this fault is easily corrected.

- Lining - The evidence presented convinces me that the coach should be lined.  This is an important question and one which I feel Rapido and/or Rails ought to answer.

- Roof - I haven't searched for the answer but I think Rapido Bill dealt with this one (possibly in the Rapido newsletter).  It is easier to make a white roof dirty than to paint a grey roof white, so a white roof on the model seems like the best compromise to me.

 

I don't regret placing my order and do not plan to cancel it but at present the lack of lining has taken the shine off things a little.

 

These represent my thoughts too - my only concern is the lining, although it would be nice for the 5th wheel to be painted correctly as well,but I'm certainly not planning to cancel my order.

[teaky]

You hit my point exactly regarding the dots when you state "I concluded that at normal viewing distance it looks fine and I'm happy.". Why therefore, are some people demanding answers from the manufacturer and Rails as to why the dots are there? For Christ's sake, it is not an issue.

 

Other points, which I deliberately did not comment upon, are more significant and I agree clarity would be nice. That said, just because we live in an age where communications are easier than they once were, it does not give us the right to expect a reply to all questions. Once upon a time a model was released and we bought it, or not, based on what we saw. Why is it expected to be so very different now?

 

Roy

It was the implication that those who had expressed an opinion were accused of ripping into a manufacturer that stirred me to comment.  I hadn't interpreted the earlier comments in that context and, after re-reading them once more, I still don't.  I don't want to prolong this trivial point, so perhaps it's better left there.

 

Your second comment raises an interesting point.  We do live in an age where communication is better facilitated even if some elements of the media/public appear determined to demonstrate this is a disadvantage.  RMweb though is generally a good example.  I don't see any evidence of people demanding answers from the manufacturer or commissioner but given that communication channels are there it seems reasonable to either expect a response or at least suggest a response might be appropriate.  The option of not responding is there and if Rapido and/or Rails choose not to do so then that's their choice and we can draw our own conclusions.  It is early days yet and waiting a day or two before an "official" response is fine with me especially since Rapido Bill in particular has been so open and thorough with responses in the past.

[Oliver Rails]

Take a look at some of our shots of the Version 2 1948 exchange trails model: 

 

 

And yes just to confirm like Andy said Halftone over-printing is how the teak effect is achieved. The dots are only visible with close up photography and is not visible with the naked eye. The video showed REAL close up image of the model.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Oliver Rails

[GreenGiraffe22]

Man, that is one incredible looking carriage, I'm almost tempted to order one but I don't think my 2001 Hornby Mallard would do it justice. Maybe I could pretend one ended up behind a Merchant Navy on the South Coast during the war... For whatever reason

[Andy Y]

Man, that is one incredible looking carriage, I'm almost tempted to order one but I don't think my 2001 Hornby Mallard would do it justice. Maybe I could pretend one ended up behind a Merchant Navy on the South Coast during the war... For whatever reason

 

ECML 27 May 1948, hauled by SR Merchant Navy Class 35017 Belgian Marine in the down direction

ECML 28 May 1948, hauled by SR Merchant Navy Class 35017 Belgian Marine in the up direction

 

Close enough?

[JSpencer]

It was also pulled by Leader.

[Bucoops]

Take a look at some of our shots of the Version 2 1948 exchange trails model: 

 

IMG_8850.jpg

IMG_8851.jpg

IMG_8852.jpg

IMG_8853.jpg

IMG_8854.jpg

IMG_8855.jpg

IMG_8856.jpg

IMG_8857.jpg

 

And yes just to confirm like Andy said Halftone over-printing is how the teak effect is achieved. The dots are only visible with close up photography and is not visible with the naked eye. The video showed REAL close up image of the model.

 

 

It's good to see the measuring wheel black is in line. Can you comment on the lining for the early version?  Thank you

[Ian Hargrave]

ECML 27 May 1948, hauled by SR Merchant Navy Class 35017 Belgian Marine in the down direction

ECML 28 May 1948, hauled by SR Merchant Navy Class 35017 Belgian Marine in the up direction

 

Close enough?

Coupled to a Stanier tender...

[Colin_McLeod]

ECML 27 May 1948, hauled by SR Merchant Navy Class 35017 Belgian Marine in the down direction

ECML 28 May 1948, hauled by SR Merchant Navy Class 35017 Belgian Marine in the up direction

 

Close enough?

 

Unfortunately my layout is set in June 1948 so out of my period unfortunately. Lol :)

 

 

Edit to quote the correct post.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Colin_McLeod

[GreenGiraffe22]

 

ECML 27 May 1948, hauled by SR Merchant Navy Class 35017 Belgian Marine in the down direction

ECML 28 May 1948, hauled by SR Merchant Navy Class 35017 Belgian Marine in the up direction

 

Close enough?

Oh lordy don't tell me that...!

[Oliver Rails]

The question has been raised about whether the Dynamometer car was lined. The answer is that after extensive research of the vehicle records and archive photographs at the NRM, there is no evidence that it was lined and the model accurately represents it’s condition in the periods presented. The photographs which have been presented to the contrary on this forum have all been seen and reviewed previously by experts, along with many other pictures. Expert opinion is conclusive that what is being seen is a trick of the light reflecting on varnished beading. Other pictures have been examined where light and shadow come from different angles and show that no lining is evident even on pictures where in some areas it looks as though it is lined. LNER policy on coach livery and lining is also capable of being researched by those sufficiently interested and this suggests that the coach would not have been lined for this type of vehicle at the period modelled.

 

Questions have also been raised about the colour of the roof, which is light grey on the model (not white). Again records show that the canvass roof was painted with white lead paint which quickly turned to a dark grey (almost black) as it reacted with the sulphurous atmosphere of steam days. Of course the coach was also always immediately behind the locomotive which added to its ability to get black as any of you who have hung out of the window behind a steam loco will know (in the days when you could of course!). It did not get cleaned. So a weathering opportunity for those of you are keen modellers! Or Rails can weather it for you if you are so minded! Interestingly Terrence Cuneo, who was a stickler for researching accuracy with colour and form, also rendered the roof light grey in his famous painting commissioned for the 50th anniversary of the record run. When the coach was restored after being withdrawn, it is believed that the roof was painted with red lead and then grey which is why it is a different colour presently in the NRM.

 

Next!?

[Bucoops]

Thank you Oliver

[stonetown]

Thank you Oliver for clearing that up!

 

Next!?

 

Well, there is still the question why the wheels don´t have their white rims.

[PaulG]

It was also pulled by Leader.

See On Southern Metals by Les Elsey for photo of Leader and dynamometer car dated 23td August 1950. Unfortunately unclear view of car livery, presumably in BR livery.

 

Paul

[Steamport Southport]

Man, that is one incredible looking carriage, I'm almost tempted to order one but I don't think my 2001 Hornby Mallard would do it justice. Maybe I could pretend one ended up behind a Merchant Navy on the South Coast during the war... For whatever reason

 

Graham Muz answered that question in Post #13. 

 

Knock it forward a bit to 1948 and you can have it being pulled by an A4, Duchess, Scot, etc. on the Southern.

 

 

 

Jason

[JSpencer]

See On Southern Metals by Les Elsey for photo of Leader and dynamometer car dated 23td August 1950. Unfortunately unclear view of car livery, presumably in BR livery.

 

Paul

 

In Kevin Robertson's book, The Leader Project Fiasco or triumph?, there are 10 photos of the Dynamometer car.

 

The roof is definately not white. The LNER branding/lettering/numbering has gone, but she retains the teak sides.

[Godfrey Glyn]

It was also pulled by Leader.

 

With that piece of information fully aired it can't be long before someone announces a model of the Leader!

all the best and in hope, Godfrey

[No Decorum]

With that piece of information fully aired it can't be long before someone announces a model of the Leader!

all the best and in hope, Godfrey

 

Should it have two-wheel pick up, a tiny, coreless motor, no flywheels, a fragile gear train and a fireman hanging out of the window of the centre cab? For realism.

[JSpencer]

Should it have two-wheel pick up, a tiny, coreless motor, no flywheels, a fragile gear train and a fireman hanging out of the window of the centre cab? For realism.

 

I want it with scale working sleeve valves. Bulleid put so much novelty into her, no wonder she failed. This monster was intended to replace the likes of the H class or M7s!

 

Rails/Rapido could do Leader with another version of the Dynamometer car for release in August 2020, in time to celebrate 70 years of the famous runs.

[micklner]

Loveless O gauge Post war version for comparison. 

 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/232809398998?ul_noapp=true

 

The actual Dyno Cat at the NRM, has a very muddy brown/red oxide similar colour roof.

 

 

Golden Age 

 

http://www.goldenagemodels.net/lner-coaches-gallery.html

 

Their pre war version has the lining. A similar Roof colour and Brown roof vents.

Edited June 18, 2018 by micklner

[gr.king]

.....been seen and reviewed previously by experts,

 

 

I wonder who these experts were? The lining is very strongly indicated by the recently posted prototype images - there are pale coloured lines of clearly defined width, not just soft-edged reflected highlights, and the lower edges of the beading (which would not catch the light in the same way as upper edges or sides) show the same evidence of lining in the relevant places.

 

Fortunately, I haven't ordered one of these, so I cannot suffer the disappointment of a paying a substantial price for what very much appears to be an incorrectly finished item.