New brand, new model - Rails Limited - LNER Dynamometer car

[JhornG201]

Is there still an opportunity to pre-order a Dynamometer Car or have I missed the chance?

[Bucoops]

Over the last several days Adam and Oliver at Rails have been diligently searching for information that will either verify or refute our decision regarding lining - or the lack of it - on the Dynamometer car. Yesterday they provided me final and - I think all will agree - irrefutable proof that our decision was correct. The discussion can stop now. 

 

Bill

 

Ah but the coach design in that set didn't run on the speed run (which also has the wrong colour lining amongst other things), so I don't think that can be submitted as accurate evidence

[Steamport Southport]

Is there still an opportunity to pre-order a Dynamometer Car or have I missed the chance?

 

It's still available to order, I believe.

 

 

https://railsofsheffield.com/exclusive

 

 

I think they need to declutter that webpage though. Makes browsing a bit difficult having to scroll through things.

 

 

 

Jason

[JSpencer]

Over the last several days Adam and Oliver at Rails have been diligently searching for information that will either verify or refute our decision regarding lining - or the lack of it - on the Dynamometer car. Yesterday they provided me final and - I think all will agree - irrefutable proof that our decision was correct. The discussion can stop now. 

 

Bill

Finally a look inside Locomotions new 80th Mallard anniversarie set. An extra coach that no one knew anything about....

[Edwardian]

See earlier post http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/121800-new-brand-new-model-rails-limited-lner-dynamometer-car/page-16&do=findComment&comment=3198965

More examples here: https://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12161&start=45#p127701

 

That is helpful, Mike, insofar as it shows how the LNER lined non-LNER/GN constituent coaches, which I found an interesting point.

 

The pictures of the Dynamometer Car in that earlier post, you would maintain, show that style of lining.  I can quite believe that is indeed what we are seeing, but that was in 1927.

 

Was the vehicle not repainted in 1928?

 

Just to be clear, before Coach gets over excited, I have never claimed it wasn't lined in '38 or '48, but have simply said why I have found the photographs inconclusive. There are manufacturers and commissioners I wouldn't trust to conclude that the colour of coal was black, let alone research a vehicle such as this, but here we seem to be in better hands, and I am keenly aware that I have not the knowledge or material to gainsay those who have researched this.  

 

If, and I stress, if, there is no definitive evidence it was lined in '38 or '48, I stand by my comment that the sensible position to adopt is not to line the production model.

 

It's not my period, so I approached this rather from the point of view of having experienced for myself the difficulty of interpreting photographs and distinguishing light effects from livery detail.  In a world plagued by fanatical certainty, I cherish my agnosticism!

[Edwardian]

the coach ... in that set ... has the wrong colour lining

 

Sure that's not a trick of the light?

[Clearwater]

Finally a look inside Locomotions new 80th Mallard anniversarie set. An extra coach that no one knew anything about....

I trust the extra coach has DCC opening doors, passengers that alight and a refillable toilet tank that you can empty onto the track by pressing F9!

[Edwardian]

a refillable toilet tank that you can empty onto the track by pressing F9!

 

So that was where I was going wrong on the LNER last week!

[MikeTrice]

Was the vehicle not repainted in 1928?

Based on what?

 

It was certainly renumbered but whether it had a full repaint or not is not known but given only one panel per side was affected I would suggest it is unlikely. Given both before and after images show lining does it matter?

Edited July 6, 2018 by MikeTrice

[Edwardian]

Based on what?

 

It was certainly renumbered but whether it had a full repaint or not is not known but given only one panel per side was affected I would suggest it is unlikely. Given both before and after images show lining does it matter?

 

I bow to your greater persistence!

[loickebros]

These really must be on a slow boat from china

[Garethp8873]

These really must be on a slow boat from china

 

I won't complain...

[Andy Y]

Via email from Rails this morning.

 

 

We can confirm that the first batch of Dynamometer cars are due in stock next week. The initial batch contains the 1938 version 1 "Mallard Run". Pre-Orders will be processed in date order so customers who ordered at first announcement and at York Model Railway exhibition 2017 will be receiving them first. The remaining stock of version 1 and version 2 stock is due to Port towards the end of next week. We anticipate these will be with us the week commencing 23/07/18. All advanced pre-orders will then be processed and despatched. Please note due to the high volume of sales there maybe a slight delay in despatching as each one needs to be carefully packed up ready for the postal journey.

 

For people who have yet to see a model in the flesh you are in for a real treat. We believe this is the best OO ready to run teak coach (probably coach full stop) ever produced. With outstanding interior and exterior detail you really will be amazed. The order book is almost full on this! Pre-ordering is advised before its to late.

[Dominion]

Would anyone by any chance know where I can reference the make-up of the rest of the train when Mallard broke the speed-record....? I think only six Coronation coaches aside from the Dyno' Car.....?

 

In the "Mallard the Drakes's progress" video referred to earlier there is a shot of the train. 

I think that shows that the Kitchen third - open third pair was the pair dropped.

This left the make up being dynamometer car, then the 5 bay brake - kitchen third pair, then the FO - FO pair, then the third open - 4 bay brake pair.

 

The shot is visible from 7.34 to 7.41 in this version of "Mallard the Drake's Progress" video

You have to play and pause repeatedly to be able to make sense of the images.

 

Tom

[MikeTrice]

Do these photos help? https://collection.sciencemuseum.org.uk/objects/co8052664/hoather-collection-photographs

[JCL]

Do these photos help? https://collection.sciencemuseum.org.uk/objects/co8052664/hoather-collection-photographs

 

Clicking on the 4th photo and then use this image, and then download shows the full sized image rather than the compressed one. It really does illustrate the lining very well. There's no sunlight bouncing off the bevel confusion there.

[adb968008]

Clicking on the 4th photo and then use this image, and then download shows the full sized image rather than the compressed one. It really does illustrate the lining very well. There's no sunlight bouncing off the bevel confusion there.

I agree, looking at the windows, you can see the dark side aspects where no sunlight hits the frames (top edge & left edge), consistent with a southwards facing train in the afternoon.

similarly the “lining” effect is only present on a few sides, which is really just reflection of the wood curves. But the panels above and below the windows show lining on all four sides very clearly, at least to my eyes.

 

Unless the sun only reflects certain angles of wood but not others equally, to me, this is lined.. the lining effect on the curves is consistently strong along the panels of the coach, but consistently not strong on the window frames which are most likely unlined.

 

Additionally note the dull effect on the clearly unlined parts.. the duckets, and the bottom of the lower most panel edge that runs length of the coach, unlike the rest of the panels.

Edited July 13, 2018 by adb968008

[Colin_McLeod]

Regarding the lining on the DC, is there an elephant in the room?

 

Maybe no one wants to say that "they" got it wrong.

[Ian Hargrave]

Regarding the lining on the DC, is there an elephant in the room?

Maybe no one wants to say that "they" got it wrong.

"No one" and his pachyderm have addressed this issue in post 483.I read little sign of evasion in his post.

[micklner]

Well his thick skin has little or nothing to do with the question was the Dyno Car lined yes or no ????.

 

The reference to the Banks site he quotes is vague, as to what photo(s) he is referring too? If its the Steel Coach were they even beaded ? It doesn't appear to be in the photos. The LNER "Teaked" post war Steel non beaded Coaches without any lining, I wouldn't have thought they were lined out pre war either, as without beading there isn't anything to place a line thereon.  Wrong info see below edits re lining.

 

We still don't know who the experts were who were consulted are, or the evidence they have used for their decision/advice.

 

 

 

 

 

Edit

 

I have now had a further look at better photos and I was wrong relating to pre war Corridor Steel Coaches they were lined out.

Edited July 14, 2018 by micklner

[Ian Hargrave]

Well his thick skin has little or nothing to do with the question was the Dyno Car lined yes or no ????.

 

The reference to the Banks site he quotes is vague, as to what photo(s) he is referring too? If its the Steel Coach were they even beaded ? It doesn't appear to be in the photos. The LNER "Teaked" post war Steel non beaded Coaches without any lining, I wouldn't have thought they were lined out pre war either, as without beading there isn't anything to place a line thereon. 

 

We still don't know who the experts were who were consulted are, or the evidence they have used for their decision/advice.

 

So we have a right to demand that all the material and personnel available to NRM/Rapido are placed before all members of this forum for their rigorous inspection before the model goes into production ?  Inevitably this would mean that it would be light years before it got off the drawing board and finally into production.This forum is not a select committee sitting in the House of Commons and expert though some of us undoubtedly are there is a limit necessarily on its influence on a commercial organisation.

 

Besides which.....it's a bit late now isn't it ? We have a simple choice.Buy or pass it by.

[chris p bacon]

"No one" and his pachyderm have addressed this issue in post 483.I read little sign of evasion in his post.

 

Bill's reply was actually a little 'inconclusive' with no actual definitive information as it referenced other stock rather than the actual coach being produced. 

 

Do these photos help? https://collection.sciencemuseum.org.uk/objects/co8052664/hoather-collection-photographs

 

And yet Mikes Post clearly shows the lining (it is not a 'trick of the light') on photographs held by the NRM.

 

As I've said before I was on the fence with some of the 'evidence' provided, but seeing this and other source material within the NRM itself, I'd say it was quite clearly lined.

 

So we have a right to demand that all the material and personnel available to NRM/Rapido are placed before all members of this forum for their rigorous inspection before the model goes into production ?  Inevitably this would mean that it would be light years before it got off the drawing board and finally into production.This forum is not a select committee sitting in the House of Commons and expert though some of us undoubtedly are there is a limit necessarily on its influence on a commercial organisation.

 

Besides which.....it's a bit late now isn't it ? We have a simple choice.Buy or pass it by.

 

 

Of course we don't have a 'right' to demand what evidence there is, but this is touted as the best coach produced so far and to the highest standard. And yet a lot of members here and elsewhere with a vast and authoritative knowledge of the LNER have pointed out that they do not think it is correct and have provided evidence to the contrary.

 

Whilst it's true that members may have little influence with a commercial organisation, Rapido prides itself on its accuracy and attention to detail and yet here we are with a 'flagship' model that has a glaring deficiency. 

 

It is of course a bit late, and those that have ordered will no doubt take delivery, but I can't help feeling that the next time a special edition similar to this is mooted there may not be the same eagerness to order until the final design is shown and pinned down. 

[micklner]

So we have a right to demand that all the material and personnel available to NRM/Rapido are placed before all members of this forum for their rigorous inspection before the model goes into production ?  Inevitably this would mean that it would be light years before it got off the drawing board and finally into production.This forum is not a select committee sitting in the House of Commons and expert though some of us undoubtedly are there is a limit necessarily on its influence on a commercial organisation.

 

Besides which.....it's a bit late now isn't it ? We have a simple choice.Buy or pass it by.

 

No one is demanding anything , we are talking on a Forum about a r.t.r Coach !!.

 

As said above in the last above post made, in the future perhaps , makers will seek advice from as many people as possible, when a subject is being considered for future manufacture .

Any relevant further information gathered will ensure the item will be far more saleable to the customer, and the Company taking the risk and finance needed, for the item to be made.

 

I doubt if would even add more than a couple of weeks to the overall production time, and any further information would cost them zero.

[Ian Hargrave]

Bill's reply was actually a little 'inconclusive' with no actual definitive information as it referenced other stock rather than the actual coach being produced. 

 

 

 

And yet Mikes Post clearly shows the lining (it is not a 'trick of the light') on photographs held by the NRM.

 

As I've said before I was on the fence with some of the 'evidence' provided, but seeing this and other source material within the NRM itself, I'd say it was quite clearly lined.

 

 

 

 

Of course we don't have a 'right' to demand what evidence there is, but this is touted as the best coach produced so far and to the highest standard. And yet a lot of members here and elsewhere with a vast and authoritative knowledge of the LNER have pointed out that they do not think it is correct and have provided evidence to the contrary.

 

Whilst it's true that members may have little influence with a commercial organisation, Rapido prides itself on its accuracy and attention to detail and yet here we are with a 'flagship' model that has a glaring deficiency. 

 

It is of course a bit late, and those that have ordered will no doubt take delivery, but I can't help feeling that the next time a special edition similar to this is mooted there may not be the same eagerness to order until the final design is shown and pinned down.

 

 

 

Yes,I have looked at Mike Trice's enclosed images.I am afraid that for me they certainly do not clearly show that it was lined.It did not convince Bill's research into the issue either.That is a personal opinion and one I abide with.These images were taken a very long time ago.They are open to a wide degree of interpretation.....maybe too wide.

[JCL]

Hi Ian, this is the best I can do

 

The image is creative commons, and from the Hoather Collection on the NRM website.

 

Personally speaking, I think that in the main, this part of the conversation has been pretty civilized. You want to read some of the posts on the more specialized forum that has been talking about this; one poster on there has been particularly rabid! On here, most people have taken part in the mystery simply to find out the truth and have enjoyed chasing down the information. I doubt anyone was really hoping the evidence indicates that the Dynamometer car had been lined.

 

People are saying we are in a post-truth, post-fact world, so I think it's good to see people taking the time to search out the information and follow it no matter where it led them. That said, everyone can interpret the above image as they wish - personally I have no doubts, but if you don't agree with me, then that's fair enough.

 

I do agree with you that it's too late to worry about it now. And I am still in awe of Jason and the rest of the staff at Rapido with regards to the models that they put out.

 

It's still a beautiful model.

 

Even without it's make-up on.

 

cheers

 

Jason