New brand, new model - Rails Limited - LNER Dynamometer car

[Bucoops]

e) run it so fast you can't tell.

[teaky]

Dare I suggest a scale 126mph or would that start an argument about scale speed? 

[Ian J.]

I ordered the 1948 one anyway, so I don't think it would have lining so it's a non-issue for me.

[Steamport Southport]

Dare I suggest a scale 126mph or would that start an argument about scale speed? 

 

Or zero when it ground to a halt a few minutes later after it had failed. 

 

 

 

Jason

[MikeTrice]

I am almost loathe to mention this but shouldn't the toilet window be opaque/obscure glass? In the preserved vehicle the window is plain glass, presumably so people can see in - the exact opposite of what you would want when in use. Fairly easily rectified when you know.

Edited June 22, 2018 by MikeTrice

[jukebox]

Theyve been made and are on their way. Why the continued bleating over something that wont be changed is tiresome.

 

But then we've nothing to froth about....

[Methuselah]

Would anyone by any chance know where I can reference the make-up of the rest of the train when Mallard broke the speed-record....? I think only six Coronation coaches aside from the Dyno' Car.....?

[jwealleans]

Six of the eight cars of one of the Coronation sets, but I don't know for certain which pair was removed. You could probably work it out if the weight of the train were recorded (which I'm fairly sure it must have been).

Edited June 23, 2018 by jwealleans

[Edwardian]

Would anyone by any chance know where I can reference the make-up of the rest of the train when Mallard broke the speed-record....? I think only six Coronation coaches aside from the Dyno' Car.....?

 

Six of the eight cars of one of the Coronation sets, but I odn't know for certain which pair was removed. You could probably work it out if the weight of the train were recorded (which I'm fairly sure it must have been).

 

Hadn't realised they'd cheated!

 

Hat .. Coat ...

[MikeTrice]

Would anyone by any chance know where I can reference the make-up of the rest of the train when Mallard broke the speed-record....? I think only six Coronation coaches aside from the Dyno' Car.....?

https://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=12747

[lochlongside]

I am almost loathe to mention this but shouldn't the toilet window be opaque/obscure glass? In the preserved vehicle the window is plain glass, presumably so people can see in - the exact opposite of what you would want when in use. Fairly easily rectified when you know.

There is a word for that ..... and you aren't loathe to do it all   !!

(and perhaps it was only at a 100 plus in a wagon (apologies coach) built before WW1 that it was occupied anyway    )

[K Hatton]

Separate to all the bickering over lining/colours of roof/dotty effect is there any update as to when these are likely to be delivered?

[richard i]

I decided to clear up the debate on colour and lining. I went to the national railway museum (green bay Wisconsin) and it turns out dynamometer cars are red.

Glad I could help clear up the debate.

Richard

[MikeTrice]

Seems to suffer the same black dot problem   

[jukebox]

Worse still, those window surrounds look...  lined!

[polybear]

Not to mention the wrong number of rivets...

[Edwardian]

Having had a chance to inspect the RAILS Dynamometer Car, I can attest to the fineness of the model.

 

It is beautifully modelled, and some of the details are really very impressive indeed.  The patterned glass in the clerestory lights and the reproduction of the painted or scumbled teak effect are incredibly fine and brilliantly executed.

 

The fully detailed interior looked very impressive, though I think it will only be fully appreciated when the coach lighting shows it to full effect.

 

Like the Single, you get the impression of something done better than you've seen it done before.

 

It was a little sad, for me, because I kept imagining what a fine basis this would be for a set of NER clerestories in lake and reflecting that to do them to this standard would probably not be commercially viable!     

 

Not really my period in the guises modelled, but I notice there has been something of a debate on lining.

 

I think I am right in saying that it is established that, apart from a single panel, there was no record of a repaint between 1928 and 1948.  Golden Age models have produced a 1938 version with lining, I have seen on the web. NRM/RAILS seem to think it wasn't lined, at least after 1928. Of course, I don't have the benefit of the research they have done, but I would be inclined to trust that it was thoroughly researched and that there is no documentary evidence to suggest the vehicle was lined at the times in question. 

 

I do struggle with interpreting photographs, because reflected light and lining are so often indistinguishable. One thing I look at is how the bolections appear, because these were never lined, but often look 'lined' due to the light effects. This tends to be true of the various black and white shots posted in this topic.

 

Even apparent lining to the lower edges might be reflected light.  This is a curved profile and can still catch the light.  Look at the 'lined' coach side below.        

 

I don't presume to say it wasn't lined, I simply don't know, but, on the basis of the photographs I'm inclined to be agnostic regarding claims that it was. If there is no positive evidence of lining, it would seem sensible not to line the model.  With evidence, IMHO, at best inconclusive, it would be a shame if the accuracy-conscious modeller was put off what is another very fine model from the impressive Rapido stable.

 

EDIT, one further thought.  Assuming the LNER lined any ex-NER coaches, how would it have gone about it?  LNER/GNR lining suited its style of beading and was applied to the face of the beading.  NER, like most others, had a curved edge to its beading, and applied the lining to that.  Would the LNER have lined where the NER had, on the curved face, or would it have lined on the face of the beading, outside the curved edge?  That issue might be worth bearing in mind when tying to decide what you see on those black and white pictures. 

Edited July 5, 2018 by Edwardian

[Methuselah]

I've got one ordered, and although I'm now convinced that it was lined, it appears to have been too fine to really model. Any attempts with oversized lines would have looked awful. If it could have been lined, it'd probably not even have been noticeable, so I'm happy, and look forward to seeing it in the flesh.

[coachmann]

 

Edited by Edwardian, Yesterday, 18:39 .

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White sticks at the ready....  

Edited July 6, 2018 by coachmann

[chris p bacon]

 I don't have the benefit of the research they have done, but I would be inclined to trust that it was thoroughly researched and that there is no documentary evidence to suggest the vehicle was lined at the times in question. 

 

 

EDIT, one further thought.  Assuming the LNER lined any ex-NER coaches, how would it have gone about it?  LNER/GNR lining suited its style of beading and was applied to the face of the beading.  NER, like most others, had a curved edge to its beading, and applied the lining to that.  Would the LNER have lined where the NER had, on the curved face, or would it have lined on the face of the beading, outside the curved edge?  That issue might be worth bearing in mind when tying to decide what you see on those black and white pictures. 

 

 

 

The first rule of research is not to trust implicitly what has gone before, in the case of the NRM their numbering of Mallard is not correct but has been seen by others that if the NRM does it, it must be right, which it isn't. I also wonder who the 'researchers' are,  those I know of (through the line societies) with vast knowledge of the LNER don't seem to have been consulted.

 

Re the lining -  It looks to me to be the inside edge of the bead where it intersects the reveal of the window. This has a practical purpose apart from making it look pretty as it gives a paint seal over the bead/panel joint where water collects. 

 

I was a bit on the fence over this one, but having recently seen some pictures the NRM have in their own archive, I'd say it does have lining. 

[Ian Hargrave]

The first rule of research is not to trust implicitly what has gone before, in the case of the NRM their numbering of Mallard is not correct but has been seen by others that if the NRM does it, it must be right, which it isn't. I also wonder who the 'researchers' are,  those I know of (through the line societies) with vast knowledge of the LNER don't seem to have been consulted.

 

Re the lining -  It looks to me to be the inside edge of the bead where it intersects the reveal of the window. This has a practical purpose apart from making it look pretty as it gives a paint seal over the bead/panel joint where water collects. 

 

I was a bit on the fence over this one, but having recently seen some pictures the NRM have in their own archive, I'd say it does have lining.

 

At least one member of this forum and of others who is also an authoritative and much respected source did in fact assist at some stage.

Given that this IS a Rails/NRM commission,whether one has views to the contrary or not,as our illustrious Rapido source informs us,exhaustive research was undertaken both in the NRM archives and elsewhere and a decision on the matter was reached.

 

As one of the first to place an order,I must accept that decision.Expert opinion was consulted.Where else would the joint commissioners look if not material evidence within the NRM? After all they are in the position of "primus inter pares".

[Lambton Coaler]

If Rapido and Rails were releasing the Dynamometer car with lining then I suspect that we would still be having a discussion of the point, but from the reverse viewpoint.

 

Such is the nature of modellers, modelling and the difficulty of verifying issues from a distant black and white past.

 

Either way, I think both models look fantastic and I’m very happy with my order for the 1948 version. If the pictures are accurate, we are very lucky to have such a detailed, well put-together model - lined or not.

[MikeTrice]

EDIT, one further thought.  Assuming the LNER lined any ex-NER coaches, how would it have gone about it?  LNER/GNR lining suited its style of beading and was applied to the face of the beading.  NER, like most others, had a curved edge to its beading, and applied the lining to that.  Would the LNER have lined where the NER had, on the curved face, or would it have lined on the face of the beading, outside the curved edge?  That issue might be worth bearing in mind when tying to decide what you see on those black and white pictures. 

See earlier post http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/121800-new-brand-new-model-rails-limited-lner-dynamometer-car/page-16&do=findComment&comment=3198965

More examples here: https://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12161&start=45#p127701

[coachmann]

See earlier post http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/121800-new-brand-new-model-rails-limited-lner-dynamometer-car/page-16&do=findComment&comment=3198965

More examples here: https://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12161&start=45#p127701

 

H o o r a y....!

Edited July 6, 2018 by coachmann

[rapidobill]

Over the last several days Adam and Oliver at Rails have been diligently searching for information that will either verify or refute our decision regarding lining - or the lack of it - on the Dynamometer car. Yesterday they provided me final and - I think all will agree - irrefutable proof that our decision was correct. The discussion can stop now. 

 

Bill