Accurascale Class 55 Deltic - 4mm scale

[McC]

24 minutes ago, Going2theDogs said:

Hi All,

I am looking for some clarification.

Did the first batch of Deltics come supplied with etched nameplates?
And will the second batch?

Thanks in advance.

Where relevant, yes, to both

[Matt C]

11 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Still prototypical tho - same happened to 55 009 when Network Rail put 25000 volts through it! 🤣

Bet the repair bill was higher though 🤣

[Matt C]

5 hours ago, Accurascale Fran said:

Hi everyone,

 

It's very hard for us to give a definitive 'Go' and 'No-Go' list of controllers given the sheer amount of controllers and transformers that are out there.

 

When it comes to older DC controllers, the key issue we face is impure DC voltage. The controller is tacking 230V AC from the mains and converting it to 12V DC. Modern controllers do this quite neatly with minimal (but not perfect!) AC bleed. An older controller will do this less cleanly - the 'bad' H&M Clipper in the office will throw out 33V AC whilst also supplying up to 12V DC. So, it will control your loco but there's a huge amount of AC current also being thrown at it. At one time, this killed the Mk.5 lighting boards which were tested up to around 24V, but our testing program caught it. The best advice we can give is for people to test the AC voltage their DC controller is giving out using a multimeter, you may be in for a surprise.

 

This may help explain further: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripple_(electrical)

 

Also note that if we publicly advise against a controller manufactured by a competitor it could be construed as "sour grapes" or "sticking the boot in". It's a tricky situation which requires ones own common sense and research. 

 

For info, the H&M control unit I referred to earlier is from the 1960s and is DC. 

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

I think all you should be expected to do is say " our modern motors may not survive voltage spikes above 'X' in either AC or DC - DC or DCC so please make sure your power supply/ controller is suitable ". It's then up to the customer to check their own equipment and make sure it is suitable or accept the risk ? 

[newbryford]

14 minutes ago, Matt C said:

I think all you should be expected to do is say " our modern motors may not survive voltage spikes above 'X' in either AC or DC - DC or DCC so please make sure your power supply/ controller is suitable ". It's then up to the customer to check their own equipment and make sure it is suitable or accept the risk ? 

 

Not quite sure how that would work.

Most modellers will not have the ability/equipment to check for spikes.

[PieGuyRob]

Er, this topic has gone from Deltics to controllers. Should there not be a separate thread for controllers? I don't think it's Accurascale's problem to work out what controllers we should use. Er, though I presume the DC controller I got with my 1988 Hornby train set won't be good enough?

Edited January 31, 2023 by PieGuyRob
Just asking for a friend

[McC]

2 minutes ago, scumcat said:

It is if they admit they know of a problem with a certain type of controller but do not pass that information on to the consumer.

 

That’s a rather unfair misrepresentation?

 

What we have said is that certain controllers are simply not compliant which can cause issues for ALL modern locomotives (and stock). 

 

Until we supply a controller it’s not our responsibility to tell you which one to use but we will draw up a list  of ‘recommended’ 

Edited January 31, 2023 by McC

[McC]

14 minutes ago, scumcat said:

I am not sure it is misrepresentation. I received a DM from one of your senior team on this very subject. Basically the Elite is old tech. But haven’t said anything because Hornby are a competitor and you don’t want to rock the boat, In your experience causes power spikes so you don’t use them. How is that misrepresenting your stand point.

What we have said is that certain controllers are simply not compliant which can cause issues for ALL modern locomotives (and stock). 

 

Until we supply a controller it’s not our responsibility to tell you which one to use but we will draw up a list  of ‘recommended’ 

 

we are moving rather away from the topic at hand. 

[spamcan61]

22 minutes ago, McC said:

What we have said is that certain controllers are simply not compliant which can cause issues for ALL modern locomotives (and stock). 

 

Not compliant in what way though, specifically? 

People can't be expected to go out and spend a three figure sum on a new controller on the basis their current one  might damage some products from some manufacturers. I've not seen widespread (or any for that matter) reports over the years of the Elite damaging DCC chips / locos, unlike the early Selects. Given the Elite is still a current product retailing at over 300 quid I would say it's entirely reasonable for anyone buying one expecting it to be compatible with current products from Hornby and other manufacturers.

Edited January 31, 2023 by spamcan61

[AY Mod]

33 minutes ago, scumcat said:

I am not sure it is misrepresentation. I received a DM from one of your senior team on this very subject. Basically the Elite is old tech. But haven’t said anything because Hornby are a competitor and you don’t want to rock the boat, In your experience causes power spikes so you don’t use them. How is that misrepresenting your stand point.

 

18 minutes ago, McC said:

Until we supply a controller it’s not our responsibility to tell you which one to use but we will draw up a list  of ‘recommended’ 

 

Please just accept that there are some things that can be said and not said. It is not the responsibility of any manufacturer to test all their products with every controller out there; if there was a black and white list there would be a hundred people on here with everything from 'abc works fine for me' through to 'you said xyz was fine but mine isn't' arguing the toss and clouding the waters. If they can draw up a list of recommendations that's more than other manufacturers will do, aside from one of their own products.

 

I see too many Clippers, Duettes and even handmade contraptions on my travels and I'm astonished what people expect from them.

[No Decorum]

16 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

I think it unreasonably to put the onus on manufacturers to identify poor controllers. Accurascale have been great at supporting us, often going beyond what is the norm, but this seems to go too far. 
 

As an analogy, if I by a car, I don’t expect Ford to tell me what roads have got pot-holes that might break it. 
 

Roy

However, we do expect models to run on track from different manufacturers and the latter do specify minimum radius. It would seem reasonable to expect model manufacturers to produce models which run on Peco, Hornby and Bachmann track and perhaps Kato as well. It is unreasonable to expect Accurascale to test its models on every controller there has ever been but on the other hand it’s reasonable to expect testing on the commonly available controllers except, perhaps, Hornby because Hornby controllers are known to be idiosyncratic.

 

For what it’s worth, my ancient Triang controller is now used to power layout lighting. My fancy H&M controllers are now out of use as is a feedback controller but my Gaugemaster continues on and on for DC. My NCE has replaced two generations of Bachmann DCC controllers.

[JSpencer]

8 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

It is unreasonable to expect Accurascale to test its models on every controller there has ever been but on the other hand it’s reasonable to expect testing on the commonly available controllers except, perhaps, Hornby because Hornby controllers are known to be idiosyncratic.

 

For what it’s worth, my ancient Triang controller is now used to power layout lighting. My fancy H&M controllers are now out of use as is a feedback controller but my Gaugemaster continues on and on for DC. My NCE has replaced two generations of Bachmann DCC controllers.

 

It would seem a bit odd not to include current Hornby Controllers as that is what most people would start with today.

 

 

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

37 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

even handmade contraptions

Thats where everything started at some point,in a garden shed with someone making what did not exist.......

 

1 hour ago, McC said:

Until we supply a controller

 

1 hour ago, McC said:

Until we supply a controller

And it came to pass,you heard it from the horses mouth here guys,twice!!! and relax.

[Accurascale Fran]

Hi everyone,

 

To get back to the Deltic itself, we do have some further good news...

 

Our batch of loksound decoders with Deltic sounds have finally arrived in stock! We are currently distributing pre-orders, but you can also grab yours right here: https://www.accurascale.com/en-eu/collections/dcc-decoders-and-accessories/products/accurathrash-class-55-deltic-dcc-sound-decoder

 

We already need to order more!

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

 

 

[HExpressD]

22 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

 

It would seem a bit odd not to include current Hornby Controllers as that is what most people would start with today.

 

 

I wonder if there are issues with Hornby controllers, would there also be issues with other entry level controllers people are likely to use like the Bachmann train set controller or Kato train set controller? I've personally not seen any issues with a HM2000, but that's above entry level I suppose

[newbryford]

5 minutes ago, HExpressD said:

I wonder if there are issues with Hornby controllers, would there also be issues with other entry level controllers people are likely to use like the Bachmann train set controller or Kato train set controller? I've personally not seen any issues with a HM2000, but that's above entry level I suppose

 

The Bachmann and Kato DC controllers are actually quite good.

[spamcan61]

11 minutes ago, HExpressD said:

I wonder if there are issues with Hornby controllers, would there also be issues with other entry level controllers people are likely to use like the Bachmann train set controller or Kato train set controller? I've personally not seen any issues with a HM2000, but that's above entry level I suppose

There's nothing 'entry level' about an Elite, as I pointed out above it's a 300 quid plus current controller. 

 

Whilst I feel controller compatibility is an important and increasingly complex issue I wouldn't want one 'off the cuff' remark in one specific instance to turn into a self perpetuating internet "fact" that AS locos aren't compatible with Hornby controllers, as I don't see that that's proven at this point.

[john new]

To avoid further thread drift and (hopefully) reach a wider catchment I have posted a question in the electrics thread.

 

See 

 

[No Decorum]

21 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

The Bachmann and Kato DC controllers are actually quite good.

I have used both and I can agree with that. Both are well made and a pleasure to use. I have one Hornby “train set” controller which came with a Christmas train set (a bit of fun) and it works all right, though it has a cheaper feel to it than the other two. The other came with a train set I got for my grandson but it came to bits. I bought the Bachmann one to replace it.

[adb968008]

On 31/01/2023 at 09:42, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

Thats where everything started at some point,in a garden shed with someone making what did not exist.......

 

Someone had to first make the garden shed.

 

[Torbay Express]

On 31/01/2023 at 09:35, JSpencer said:

 

It would seem a bit odd not to include current Hornby Controllers as that is what most people would start with today.

 

 

Yes, but are they up to modern locos? On the latest Hornby set controllers doublehead Hattons 66's and controller overloads in a couple of seconds.  On one of the earlier ones, the lights don't work correctly.  

 

I think you have to look at it that people who are spending considerable amounts of money on modern and technologically advanced model railways, should really be looking towards more than entry level controllers, whether DC or DCC to get the most out of the hobby and their locomotives.  Increasing compatibility with more basic controllers, could jeopardise future progress. 

 

Personally I find track curvature one of the most annoying aspects of the hobby... With kinematic couplings we have trains that cannot be easily coupled and uncoupled on curves and drooping couplings that require the patience of a saint, while modellers obsessed by detail are running trains on curves where the bogies look silly. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Torbay Express]

On the new Purple Gordon, apart from the modifications for the second run of Deltics, are there any livery differences on the second D9016 run? 

 

Also, will the box graphics be different (apart from just the larger side label) from the first to the second edition, to make them easily distinguishable? 

[McC]

8 minutes ago, Torbay Express said:

On the new Purple Gordon, apart from the modifications for the second run of Deltics, are there any livery differences on the second D9016 run? 

 

Also, will the box graphics be different (apart from just the larger side label) from the first to the second edition, to make them easily distinguishable? 

the livery is almost identical but the box will be completely different. hth. 

[JSpencer]

14 minutes ago, Torbay Express said:

Yes, but are they up to modern locos? On the latest Hornby set controllers doublehead Hattons 66's and controller overloads in a couple of seconds.  On one of the earlier ones, the lights don't work correctly.  

 

I think you have to look at it that people who are spending considerable amounts of money on modern and technologically advanced model railways, should really be looking towards more than entry level controllers, whether DC or DCC to get the most out of the hobby and their locomotives.  Increasing compatibility with more basic controllers, could jeopardise future progress. 

 

Personally I find track curvature one of the most annoying aspects of the hobby... With kinematic couplings we have trains that cannot be easily coupled and uncoupled on curves and drooping couplings that require the patience of a saint, while modellers obsessed by detail are running trains on curves where the bogies look silly. 

 

We drifting away from the deltic again.... Suffice to say, the cheap entry controller in this case is cutting out instead of  the expensive loco electronics going pop!  There were no issues running a single Accurascale Deltic in full sound blast and a rake of coaches for an hour from a Hornby's entry DCC eLite. The point is looking to see what we will fry the model. 

[maico]

On 30/01/2023 at 11:37, Accurascale Fran said:

 

Hi @thetrains,

 

It is noted in that video that almost 28 volts was put through the motor using an ancient obsolete controller. With the greatest of respect in that video if you do that it's going to damage components including the motor. We have used such controllers on product testing and seen spikes of 30 volts. 
 

 

We would certainly implore anyone to invest in more modern control systems if they wish to protect their locos and especially operate modern models. It's such a false economy to buy the latest locos and use such transformers that are only fit for the bin. Even one moment at that voltage is going to nuke things. 

 

While I'm sure that in many cases proper, newer controllers are used by people who experience issues, it's worthy to point this out regarding the this video.

 

If anyone ever has any issues with any of our models, all they have to do is send us an email and we will do everything we can to resolve it for them.

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

 

Those variable resistance mat H&M models are far to crude for modern electronics.

 

Frying tonight...

 

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by maico

[adb968008]

5 hours ago, maico said:

 

Those variable resistance mat H&M models are far to crude for modern electronics.

 

Frying tonight...

 

 

Grandad blew up the enemy during WW2 with these.

 

Looks good for another 30 years that.

Just dont make them like they used to.

if it can rust like that and still work it’ll outlive any of this modern plastic rubbish.

😁
 

I bet that glows in the dark, humms like a bee and flickrs the lights when you plug it in… put a class 76 on the track and its got built in DC sound effects.

 

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by adb968008