Accurascale Class 55 Deltic - 4mm scale

[Roy Langridge]

6 minutes ago, dogbox321 said:

 

Well, it wouldn't take much to improve the current Lima, ooops sorry I meant to say Bachmann one, particularly at its price now a days.  Particularly below the sole bar, enhanced roof details, etched grilles etc..  It don't really stretch the imagination to see how a better one could be produced.  Just please do not announce 20 versions at the same time. 

 

Hornby Class 50, well it is nice but there are a few inaccuracies, and it could be just updated to the latest standards.  DCC/servo controlled side luvres would be good, complete with sound!

 

But does that not sum up the issue well. There are slight improvements that can be made to those existing models that, should Hornby / Bachmann wish to do so, could probably be achieved quiet simply and at a relatively low cost*. As was seen with the Terrier, if the big two want to do something they will, and can do it quickly if they have to. Bachmann have a history of slowly improving their 37 and may continue to do so.

 

On the other hand, the market for 37s and 47s is huge, were Bachmann to retool parts of their 37 to complete against a newly announced model, would enough sell in both camps to be viable? Quite possibly, yes. I don't see the Class 50 market as being in the same league as those two or the Deltic.

Roy

 

*less than a complete tooling for a new model.

[adb968008]

3 hours ago, dogbox321 said:

 

Hornby Class 50, well it is nice but there are a few inaccuracies, and it could be just updated to the latest standards.  DCC/servo controlled side luvres would be good, complete with sound!

I’d be surprised if any future class 50 had separate movable louvres at all, let alone opening doors... there’s over 50+ moving parts just there !  That the Hornby 50 is approaching 20 years old and still this good is testament to the design of the time (much of it related to the Proto 2000 series made for the US market in the late 90’s).

I think the current 50 will be hard to beat at a realistic price.

 

37 & 47 (and 20 for that matter) would be nice but you can bet Hornby and Bachmann will pincer move any attempts on those, like they did with the 66. That said bold faces and deep pockets could chew that risk and take it on, but i’d be a little surprised.

Edited May 16, 2019 by adb968008

[Accurascale Fran]

This is starting to have a wishlist whiff about it guys!  (not that we mind, but you know, mods and all that...)

 

Cheers!

 

Fran

[rob D2]

5 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I’d be surprised if any future class 50 had separate movable louvres at all, let alone opening doors... there’s over 50+ moving parts just there !  That the Hornby 50 is approaching 20 years old and still this good is testament to the design of the time (much of it related to the Proto 2000 series made for the US market in the late 90’s).

I think the current 50 will be hard to beat at a realistic price.

 

37 & 47 (and 20 for that matter) would be nice but you can bet Hornby and Bachmann will pincer move any attempts on those, like they did with the 66. That said bold faces and deep pockets could chew that risk and take it on, but i’d be a little surprised.

I don’t think the Hornby 50 is 20 years ....this was released in 2005/6, but it’s way too fiddly and those louvres are trainset so I agree it could benefit t from the Irish touch 

Edited May 16, 2019 by rob D2

[Markwj]

Just a question in a vain attempt to drag the thread back on track and answer my own curiosity and it may have been answered recently but where are you up to with the Deltic. Is it still on track (ho ho) to be released in November what stage of the build process are you up to?

thanks

mark

[Accurascale Fran]

4 minutes ago, Markwj said:

Just a question in a vain attempt to drag the thread back on track and answer my own curiosity and it may have been answered recently but where are you up to with the Deltic. Is it still on track (ho ho) to be released in November what stage of the build process are you up to?

thanks

mark

 

Hi Mark,

 

Still on track for late November, tooling still going on. Once there are no slip ups of any kind (shouldn't be!) we will stick to that course. 

 

As soon as we have news otherwise we will post it here as well as our website. We're getting more and more excited about it. We know stuff like the 92 has hogged the limelight a bit recently, but the Deltic has been progressing nicely in the background. 

 

Cheers!

 

Fran

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, rob D2 said:

I don’t think the Hornby 50 is 20 years ....this was released in 2005/6, but it’s way too fiddly and those louvres are trainset so I agree it could be rift from the Irish touch 

R2348 50018 Resolution released 2003, time flies fast, it’s passed 15 years, approaching 20 years

Edited May 16, 2019 by adb968008

[spice1977]

I cannot wait for this - paid for mine upfront as its going to be amazing!

 

[brittannia]

2 hours ago, Accurascale Fran said:

 

Hi Mark,

 

Still on track for late November, tooling still going on. Once there are no slip ups of any kind (shouldn't be!) we will stick to that course. 

 

As soon as we have news otherwise we will post it here as well as our website. We're getting more and more excited about it. We know stuff like the 92 has hogged the limelight a bit recently, but the Deltic has been progressing nicely in the background. 

 

Cheers!

 

Fran

Great news Gordon Highlander ordered and paid for

[mdvle]

7 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I’d be surprised if any future class 50 had separate movable louvres at all, let alone opening doors... there’s over 50+ moving parts just there !

 

For many one of the biggest problems with the Hornby Class 50 is the louvres, and the artificially deep inset from the outside to allow them to work.  While it may be possible, perhaps using brass, to make a more scale option that would likely be too fragile and better off to just forget the idea of operating louvres.

 

7 hours ago, adb968008 said:

 

 That the Hornby 50 is approaching 20 years old and still this good is testament to the design of the time (much of it related to the Proto 2000 series made for the US market in the late 90’s).

I think the current 50 will be hard to beat at a realistic price.

 

Surprisingly the P2K series is early 90s, with the first model being released in 1989.

 

 

7 hours ago, adb968008 said:

37 & 47 (and 20 for that matter) would be nice but you can bet Hornby and Bachmann will pincer move any attempts on those, like they did with the 66. That said bold faces and deep pockets could chew that risk and take it on, but i’d be a little surprised.

 

While they both made new releases of the 66, neither released a new tooled version, so it is difficult to know exactly how much effect they are having on the market.

[No Decorum]

12 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

For many one of the biggest problems with the Hornby Class 50 is the louvres, and the artificially deep inset from the outside to allow them to work.  While it may be possible, perhaps using brass, to make a more scale option that would likely be too fragile and better off to just forget the idea of operating louvres.

 

 

Surprisingly the P2K series is early 90s, with the first model being released in 1989.

 

 

 

While they both made new releases of the 66, neither released a new tooled version, so it is difficult to know exactly how much effect they are having on the market.

I’m one of the many. The appearance of those louvres is bad and moving them such a pain that they are easier just left alone.

 

There is excitement in something new – the success of Dapol’s 68 demonstrates that. However, there is a world of a difference between producing a new model where the existing model is poor (Classes 59, 90, 91 and 92) and where the existing model is reasonable (55 and 66). Both Accurascale and Hatton’s seem have been successful in convincing us that we want outstanding models of the 55 and 66 but sales may be limited by what people already have. Time will tell.

 

Of course, the new 55s and 66s are both following the old Vitrains marketing model of multiple liveries, which adds to the temptation. Newly tooled 37s, 47s and 50s? Risky, I would have thought. Bachmann seems unable to react particularly quickly with new tooling but Hornby seems to. Perhaps Hornby is in too much of a rush – as has been pointed out, the internals of Hornby’s 87 are poor compared to those of Bachmann’s 90.

 

Before I finish my ramble, what is this business of Bachmann’s rep limited editions? On the face of it, a bit silly as any one of them can be bought by post from any retailer in the appropriate area. Nevertheless, it seems to have been a very successful marketing idea. I wonder why Bachmann is doing it; Is it just a way of suggesting that the models will be hard to get? Is it a way of introducing a wide variety of different liveries without putting them on general release? Could it just possibly be a way of getting the most out of the existing tooling before a complete retool?

[Ian Hargrave]

Two reasons for the area specials : Bachmann’s avowed policy is to support its retailers and has been for several years. Secondly,it’s possibly  aggressive marketing designed to see off potential competitors for both the 37 and 47 by introducing variants into the market that have not been released thus far,maybe deterring any threat.

 

Both Hornby with its new budget 66 and Bachmann with a significant price drop on theirs have shown an appetite for sparring in a competition contest with Hattons and indeed Bachmann in that particular case seem to have placed their own embargo on that specific venture.

 

A parallel situation can be seen in the case of the Hornby/Rails Dapol Terrier.IMHO Bachmann’s area special policy is a healthy one. Only time will realise it’s profitability.

 

[Ian Hargrave]

21 hours ago, spice1977 said:

I cannot wait for this - paid for mine upfront as its going to be amazing!

 

 

So did I and of course it will be,so back again on topic. Looking forward to the visit of the amazing roadshow at DEMU in a couple of weeks.

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Two reasons for the area specials : Bachmann’s avowed policy is to support its retailers and has been for several years. Secondly,it’s possibly  aggressive marketing designed to see off potential competitors for both the 37 and 47 by introducing variants into the market that have not been released thus far,maybe deterring any threat.

 

Both Hornby with its new budget 66 and Bachmann with a significant price drop on theirs have shown an appetite for sparring in a competition contest with Hattons and indeed Bachmann in that particular case seem to have placed their own embargo on that specific venture.

 

A parallel situation can be seen in the case of the Hornby/Rails Dapol Terrier.IMHO Bachmann’s area special policy is a healthy one. Only time will realise it’s profitability.

 

Yes but what comes next... another dozen 37/47’s ?

 

I think were in a bit of a dead zone.. Accurascales taken the new territories by storm. Old ground means rehashes, increasingly against “not so bad” old ones.

The fertile land is modern EMUs... trouble is they are very expensive to tool and most people only buy 1 or 2.... 

 

That said whats the difference between a loco on a rake of mk5’s.. and a modern EMU ?...Fran..tool up an Electrostar !

Edited May 17, 2019 by adb968008

[Ian Hargrave]

And we have to realise that there is an upper limit to what is economically viable in terms of development costs and pricing at point of sale....i.e.what the market will stand.

[McC]

1 hour ago, Ian Hargrave said:

And we have to realise that there is an upper limit to what is economically viable in terms of development costs and pricing at point of sale....i.e.what the market will stand.

 

Our philosophy and business model is to deliver models that are absolutely faithful, as detailed as we can possibly make them (ie: the 'definitive' model of the prototype) at a price point that is the same or less than comparable models on the market.

 

While we deliver a premium product, we're not doing so at premium pricing.

[dogbox321]

17 hours ago, McC said:

 

Our philosophy and business model is to deliver models that are absolutely faithful, as detailed as we can possibly make them (ie: the 'definitive' model of the prototype) at a price point that is the same or less than comparable models on the market.

 

While we deliver a premium product, we're not doing so at premium pricing.

 

Would quite agree, its the way to go.  When Accurascale did the questionnaire at the start, my feedback was to offer great products at sensible prices, without being greedy like some others.  

 

I think Accurascale has a very bright future, as long as it continues to maintain its core values and modellers wallets can continue to stand the bombardment of wonderful models.  There is too much temptation......

 

Regards,

 

C.

[Andy Mac]

2 hours ago, dogbox321 said:

 

Would quite agree, its the way to go.  When Accurascale did the questionnaire at the start, my feedback was to offer great products at sensible prices, without being greedy like some others.  

 

I think Accurascale has a very bright future, as long as it continues to maintain its core values and modellers wallets can continue to stand the bombardment of wonderful models.  There is too much temptation......

 

Regards,

 

C.

 

One thing to bear in mind, as more and more models become available only direct from manufacturers, then that’s less and less product/money for the traditional and or mail order model shops....

[Roy Langridge]

50 minutes ago, Andy Mac said:

 

One thing to bear in mind, as more and more models become available only direct from manufacturers, then that’s less and less product/money for the traditional and or mail order model shops....

 

And potentially a smaller total market, which is probably why the likes of Hattons have opened up the market for their models to competing shops. Whilst I think the direct sales approach will be successful in the short-term, longer-term there is a whole market sector that will want to see and touch models in a shop and who will never either order online or attend shows.

 

Roy

[Accurascale Fran]

31 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

And potentially a smaller total market, which is probably why the likes of Hattons have opened up the market for their models to competing shops. Whilst I think the direct sales approach will be successful in the short-term, longer-term there is a whole market sector that will want to see and touch models in a shop and who will never either order online or attend shows.

 

Roy

 

Hi Roy,

 

Our limited edition Deltics are for sale through a traditional retailer, a museum and a preservation group, so we try to cater for everyone as best we can, and our other models are open to similar commission opportunities. However, we could not offer all the other models we do in our range at these prices if we put them all through retailer networks due to the margins required.

 

Unfortunately we can’t please everyone all of the time.  We want to offer high quality at respectable prices, and there is a large sector of the market who are price conscious and they want value for money. We get that and respect that and try to offer that. This is the best structure for us as a company, and judging by our sales stats our beliefs are being backed up by customers. It’s about making the best compromise. 

 

At the end of the day we are a manufacturer and an online retailer, just like the big online model shops. We understand that people want to touch and look before they buy, and they can do that too by visiting us at shows. They can also order online and send it back and get a full refund if they are not happy, as it is their statutory rights under consumer law. The only difference really is that it arrives to your home instead of having to make a trip out. It’s all about choice at the end of the day and we just offer a new one, and modellers are pleased to have yet another new option for models. 

 

Cheers!

Fran

 

 

[55020]

Don't change anything Fran, keep on doing what you do so well.  

[Roy Langridge]

56 minutes ago, Accurascale Fran said:

 

Hi Roy,

 

Our limited edition Deltics are for sale through a traditional retailer, a museum and a preservation group, so we try to cater for everyone as best we can, and our other models are open to similar commission opportunities. However, we could not offer all the other models we do in our range at these prices if we put them all through retailer networks due to the margins required.

 

Unfortunately we can’t please everyone all of the time.  We want to offer high quality at respectable prices, and there is a large sector of the market who are price conscious and they want value for money. We get that and respect that and try to offer that. This is the best structure for us as a company, and judging by our sales stats our beliefs are being backed up by customers. It’s about making the best compromise. 

 

At the end of the day we are a manufacturer and an online retailer, just like the big online model shops. We understand that people want to touch and look before they buy, and they can do that too by visiting us at shows. They can also order online and send it back and get a full refund if they are not happy, as it is their statutory rights under consumer law. The only difference really is that it arrives to your home instead of having to make a trip out. It’s all about choice at the end of the day and we just offer a new one, and modellers are pleased to have yet another new option for models. 

 

Cheers!

Fran

 

 

 

Don't get me wrong Fran, I like what you are doing and I am happy to order online and attend shows. For me the manner you have chosen to operate works and I know by that you keep your costs down - it is no coincidence that my Class 24s come from SLW who operate a similar model and I consider them your most similar peer in terms of approach and standard.

 

What I do also know, however, is that some of my friends and colleagues will not order online, no matter what the protection available, as is their choice. They are what some might call old-school, visiting the likes of Alton Model Centre for all their purchases and nothing will change their view. And that was the point of my post, a comment above was that direct sales model may damage local shops, and to an extent I agree, but there will always be a demand for them in my opinion and I don't see the like of Hornby, Dapol or Bachmann going direct only in the future.

Anyhow, I do my bit to promote your models (my fireman at the Mid-Hants has ordered a Tulyar after I pointer you out) and once my Ballymoss is paid for, I imagine another will follow.

 

Roy

Edited May 18, 2019 by Roy Langridge

[Accurascale Fran]

Thanks Roy, I get you. I guess it was just a good opportunity to explain why we do what we do, as we do get asked about it from time to time.

 

Cheers!

 

Fran

[dogbox321]

On 18/05/2019 at 16:36, Roy Langridge said:

 

What I do also know, however, is that some of my friends and colleagues will not order online, no matter what the protection available, as is their choice. They are what some might call old-school, visiting the likes of Alton Model Centre for all their purchases and nothing will change their view. And that was the point of my post, a comment above was that direct sales model may damage local shops, and to an extent I agree, but there will always be a demand for them in my opinion and I don't see the like of Hornby, Dapol or Bachmann going direct only in the future.

 

 

I must admit, I am no lover of the internet, and my dad cannot even use it.  But in todays world it has become the future of many things, and its actually been forced onto people such as in banking where branches are closing, government wanting people to buy e-tickets for train travel etc.  

 

In model railways the internet has not been forced on anyone, but its become very useful in seeing projects come to the fore that never would in the past.  Plus as prices have shot up, new companies have entered the market etc., then online retail has grown in popularity, and in the case of the likes of Accurascale its enabled it to both build a market and supply models at reasonable cost.  A DC Deltic/Class 92 otherwise would, with normal discounts applied be circa £210 from a model shop.  

 

 Its not that people don't have a choice, and can use traditional means ie a model shop if they wish, but you are restricting the sphere of products you can purchase.  Likewise, look at the havoc internet retail has caused on the high street.  Its a change that pretty much needs to be embraced, in order to get the most out of your hobby.  Internet shopping demand exists, because people wish to purchase using this channel, and even most model shops now have a website!  Its also very easy to compare prices, specs etc., to ensure the customer gets a competitive deal, with relatively little hassle.  Plus credit card purchases are protected, and regulations to protect the purchaser.

 

The main problem is, its just too easy to click and order another Deltic via card!  Whereas getting 8 £20 notes out your pocket would make you think just a little more!

 

Regards,

 

C.

[maico]

Are the drive cogs going to be brass or nylon on these ?

Having a heavy die-cast tungsten alloy chassis and mainly metal bogies is a good move.