'Genesis' 4 & 6 wheel coaches in OO Gauge - New Announcement

[Roddy Angus]

50 minutes ago, GWR-fan said:

This had me wondering as there were numerous pre-orders in for around twenty Genesis coaches in GWR livery.  A check of my pre-orders shows that all the GWR livery Genesis coaches are sold out on pre-order.  Now if I only have one "open" pre-order on the books does that indicate that all my pre-orders for the GWR Genesis coaches have been cancelled?

How would we know?  Ask Hatton's or check what your "open" order is for.

 

Regards

 

Roddy

[GWR-fan]

7 hours ago, Roddy Angus said:

How would we know?  Ask Hatton's or check what your "open" order is for.

 

Regards

 

Roddy

That is answered in the first paragraph.

[gwrrob]

On 10/05/2022 at 14:32, SteamingWales said:

On the subject of delivery dates an update has just been posted to the project page. Also check your emails as this is how I found out

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/directory/versiondetails/article?id=594

 

A quick summary. Basic liveries are first to arrive (GWR/Departmental) in Sept 2022, rest following on in various months

 

If this is still the case we don't have long to wait now.😎 A confirmation has been received from Mark at Hatton's that they are still on for a September delivery.

Edited August 24, 2022 by gwrrob
added detail.

[SteamingWales]

50 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

 

If this is still the case we don't have long to wait now.😎

 

Fingers crossed. At least 2 of the mini batches are in boats now according to the table 

 

Not to be a doom munger but could these be affected by the strike at Felixstowe, someone please explain international shipping to me. Do ships do drop off at different ports and just unload everything at one place? 🤔 although logic would be for the container/containers to go straight to Liverpool 

[Dunsignalling]

56 minutes ago, SteamingWales said:

 

Fingers crossed. At least 2 of the mini batches are in boats now according to the table 

 

Not to be a doom munger but could these be affected by the strike at Felixstowe, someone please explain international shipping to me. Do ships do drop off at different ports and just unload everything at one place? 🤔 although logic would be for the container/containers to go straight to Liverpool 

Different ships unload at different ports. Felixstowe is by far our biggest container port, but handles less than half of the boxes passing in and out of the UK. 

Edited August 23, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[newbryford]

1 hour ago, SteamingWales said:

 

Fingers crossed. At least 2 of the mini batches are in boats now according to the table 

 

Not to be a doom munger but could these be affected by the strike at Felixstowe, someone please explain international shipping to me. Do ships do drop off at different ports and just unload everything at one place? 🤔 although logic would be for the container/containers to go straight to Liverpool 

 

It's not unknown for boxes to be unloaded at Rotterdam and roaded to the UK......

[Clearwater]

1 hour ago, SteamingWales said:

 

Fingers crossed. At least 2 of the mini batches are in boats now according to the table 

 

Not to be a doom munger but could these be affected by the strike at Felixstowe, someone please explain international shipping to me. Do ships do drop off at different ports and just unload everything at one place? 🤔 although logic would be for the container/containers to go straight to Liverpool 

I think Liverpool gets the odd direct call from the Far East but most of those ships go to the Rotterdams, Hamburgs and Antwerps.  Ships may call en route with minimal diversions to Southampton, `Felixstowe or London Gateway.  Liverpool is better suited for North Atlantic trade but does have feeders into those ports.  It may well be cheaper, think easyJet style pricing, for a marginal box to go to Rotterdam, be transshipped to Hull/Immingham and then driven to Liverpool.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Many of the ships in and out of Felixstowe ( and other UK ports travel via the major European ports. Few of the UK ports can deal with the Ultra large container ships and it is possible that some boxes are transhipped for onward movement from Europe to the UK.

 

The Marine Traffic website; https://www.marinetraffic.com shows the density of traffic in the seaways and the number of ships in UK ports is relatively small compared to their  EU counterparts. 

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Many of the ships in and out of Felixstowe ( and other UK ports travel via the major European ports. Few of the UK ports can deal with the Ultra large container ships and it is possible that some boxes are transhipped for onward movement from Europe to the UK.

 

The Marine Traffic website; https://www.marinetraffic.com shows the density of traffic in the seaways and the number of ships in UK ports is relatively small compared to their  EU counterparts. 

Your last point is only to be expected because our ports, by definition, only handle traffic into and out of the UK. That capability is a natural requirement for any island nation.

 

By contrast, Rotterdam (for example) serves most of the EU, few of the members of which could create such provision within their own borders, and needs much greater capacity to do that.

 

Given that only a minority of the boxes carried by the very largest container vessels wil be destined for the UK, its doubtful that creating or enlarging a UK terminal to handle them is either necessary or a commercial proposition. 

 

John

Edited August 24, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[SteamingWales]

Thanks all for the explanation of international shipping in a nutshell (and apologies for de-railing the thread)

 

To re-rail it I'm really looking forward to recieving my example (Departmental Tool and Mess Van) and get some way to recreating this photo!

 

 

[PhilJ W]

52 minutes ago, SteamingWales said:

Thanks all for the explanation of international shipping in a nutshell (and apologies for de-railing the thread)

 

To re-rail it I'm really looking forward to recieving my example (Departmental Tool and Mess Van) and get some way to recreating this photo!

 

 

The roof profile of the coach indicates that at one time it had a clerestory?

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

The roof profile of the coach indicates that at one time it had a clerestory?

 

That's just the usual three-centred arc roof used by the GW in the 1890s, though the same profile was used for clerestory carriages built at that time - but I think those were all bogie vehicles. Compare the good old Ratio kits. A reasonably straightforward way of getting a more faithful representation of that departmental 4-wheeler would be to sand the raised beading off the Ratio 4-wheel composite kit:

 

Edited August 24, 2022 by Compound2632

[Michael Hodgson]

If a ship booked to dock at Felixstowe during the strike won't be unloaded there, will it even bother to call - or will it simply sail on to its next destination with our goods still on board?   Would the boxes simply be offloaded at Rotterdam or wherever and stack on a quayside until alternative arrangements can be  made?

[Jol Wilkinson]

The Unite boss has said (during a visit to Felixstowe) that the strike "could escalate until Christmas".

 

So supplies of items from China and the Far East may well be delayed and importers costs rise as shippers charge more for ships "stuck" at sea, additional container handling and storage, etc. as discussed with a furniture importer on the BBC R4 News this morning.

[peterfgf]

21 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

If a ship booked to dock at Felixstowe during the strike won't be unloaded there, will it even bother to call - or will it simply sail on to its next destination with our goods still on board?   Would the boxes simply be offloaded at Rotterdam or wherever and stack on a quayside until alternative arrangements can be  made?

Yes, the containers will be off-loaded at the next port of call, Hamburg or where ever.  The next problems are demurrage (cost of storage) and then finding a short-sea feeder vessel to take them back to Felixstowe or Southampton.  Unfortunately, I think there is shortage of such vessels, so arrival in the UK might be delayed longer than expected.

Peterfgf

[gr.king]

I'm puzzled by all the impatience. These are not going to be proper models of anything at all. Nobody will know for certain that they are even "as promised" until real production examples actually arrive and are tested. They'll get here when they get here, then they need to be assessed. Why would anybody be eager to spend their money any sooner?

Okay, they might re-sell, even at a profit, to a non-runner collector if it turns out that they are a disappointment to those who actually take things out of the box and expect them to look right, run properly and not fall to pieces, but in my opinion "blind" pre-ordering and pre-payment just encourages manufacture without rigorous enforcement of quality controls.

[HExpressD]

2 hours ago, gr.king said:

I'm puzzled by all the impatience. These are not going to be proper models of anything at all. Nobody will know for certain that they are even "as promised" until real production examples actually arrive and are tested. They'll get here when they get here, then they need to be assessed. Why would anybody be eager to spend their money any sooner?

Okay, they might re-sell, even at a profit, to a non-runner collector if it turns out that they are a disappointment to those who actually take things out of the box and expect them to look right, run properly and not fall to pieces, but in my opinion "blind" pre-ordering and pre-payment just encourages manufacture without rigorous enforcement of quality controls.

I think people want them to be here and now, so that they can make comparisons to other generic 4 and 6 wheel coaches that are often seen as having been created as a result of their announcement!

[MR Chuffer]

4 minutes ago, HExpressD said:

here and now

I want them here and now so I can start to run some passenger services on my pre-grouping model railway. I'm in my 70s, 2 years into a model railway project from scratch, I have the layout, 100+goods wagons and half a dozen locos but no coaches and with diminishing eyesight and hand-eye coordination, I don't fancy handlining a pre-grouping coach. These will be a quick win (when they arrive), simples....

[HExpressD]

14 minutes ago, MR Chuffer said:

I want them here and now so I can start to run some passenger services on my pre-grouping model railway. I'm in my 70s, 2 years into a model railway project from scratch, I have the layout, 100+goods wagons and half a dozen locos but no coaches and with diminishing eyesight and hand-eye coordination, I don't fancy handlining a pre-grouping coach. These will be a quick win (when they arrive), simples....

Have you considered the currently available range of pre-grouping coaches in that case?

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, HExpressD said:

Have you considered the currently available range of pre-grouping coaches in that case?

 

He's not that desperate.

[MR Chuffer]

2 minutes ago, HExpressD said:

currently available range of pre-grouping coaches

As in Midland Railway and Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway, show me, where, have I missed something?

 

I have plenty of kits, but I have discovered my soldering skills are zilch and the handlining is something I would want to avoid so I could spend more time running trains.

[longchap]

I've had my Genesis pre-order in since the decorated samples were released and saw that they looked, in my opinion, much better than the Margate spoilers and suspect that others may be in similar circumstances.

 

Any criticism regarding MR Chuffer's decisions could too easily be regarded as misplaced. In the absence of understanding, respect is an excellent substitute.

 

Edited August 25, 2022 by longchap

[kevfisher]

Best of luck longchap - and hope you get to see them. I too was well impressed the the quality and look of the coaches.
..
But unfortunately for me Hattons have decided to cancel my preorder after 18 months with the good old
.... "We have now received our finalised numbers for these models and due to the popularity of this project, I am afraid that we are having to cancel your order as we are unable to fulfill it."
I could try reordering - but with a Dec23 eta, and this cancel causing a bit of a bad taste ...  I may just have to put up with the Hornby ones..

[Dunsignalling]

On 25/08/2022 at 10:03, gr.king said:

I'm puzzled by all the impatience. These are not going to be proper models of anything at all. Nobody will know for certain that they are even "as promised" until real production examples actually arrive and are tested. They'll get here when they get here, then they need to be assessed. Why would anybody be eager to spend their money any sooner?

Okay, they might re-sell, even at a profit, to a non-runner collector if it turns out that they are a disappointment to those who actually take things out of the box and expect them to look right, run properly and not fall to pieces, but in my opinion "blind" pre-ordering and pre-payment just encourages manufacture without rigorous enforcement of quality controls.

No pre-payment is involved TTBOMK, certainly not on my part.

 

I have a couple of the early releases on pre-order and about half a dozen more that aren't scheduled for delivery until 2024. 

 

I'll therefore have ample opportunity to cancel if the first ones don't come up to expectations.

 

Yes, they are semi-freelance, but they aren't too far off the prototypes I like and represent a "dabble" into a period earlier than my established interests that I may or may not decide to take further.

 

As to build quality, what was described by Hatton's on announcement looked rather more thoroughly thought through than Hornby's equally generic equivalents. Hence I'm willing to "wait and see", though I long ago stopped stressing about late deliveries of any model.

 

I'm 70, with a tendency to cynicism, and frankly don't expect that to change much in whatever time I have left. LOL.

 

John

 

[Michael Hodgson]

41 minutes ago, kevfisher said:

Best of luck longchap - and hope you get to see them. I too was well impressed the the quality and look of the coaches.
..
But unfortunately for me Hattons have decided to cancel my preorder after 18 months with the good old
.... "We have now received our finalised numbers for these models and due to the popularity of this project, I am afraid that we are having to cancel your order as we are unable to fulfill it."
I could try reordering - but with a Dec23 eta, and this cancel causing a bit of a bad taste ...  I may just have to put up with the Hornby ones..

That strikes me as well out of order.  I appreciate that it's necessary to guess how many of a new item they will manage to sell, and it's fair enough if they underestimate a future product's popularity and end up disappointing those waiting to see how it turns out befdore orering, but if they have known about your order for all that time, they should have had the decency to include yours in the quantity they asked the factory to build. 

 

As it is, I'm dischuffed that the Plasser GPC crane announced a few years ago doesn't seem likely to materialise, and I can't now find any mention on their site any more.  It seems to have just been quietly removed from the website.

 

I'm inclined to share Dunsignalling's cynicism.