Hornby W1 Hush Hush

[Trevor Hammond]

1 hour ago, No Decorum said:

I find Hornby’s approach exasperating at times. Sometimes, the flanged wheels work, as on the Princess. Sometimes, as on the Duchess, some plastic needs to be carved away to provide a flangeway. Silly but correctable. However, on the W1, the flanged wheels are locked solid in place. Even leaving the miniature keeper plate off doesn’t help. Why? The tops of the flanges make contact with the loco body. All that is needed is a curve in the casting to accommodate the flange. If incorporated in the tooling, it should cost next to nothing to do. The locomotive will still not go round R2 curves but it would go round larger radii. Why on earth does Hornby not do it? The problem is not unique to the W1 – the Merchant Navies have the same problem but, as has been pointed out, the trailing wheels of the W1s are much more prominent.

All of my W1s go around 2nd radius curves without any problem. 

[No Decorum]

42 minutes ago, Trevor Hammond said:

All of my W1s go around 2nd radius curves without any problem. 

I bet they don’t with flanged wheels in place. The point I was trying to make is that Hornby could easily improve the design in such a way as to improve matters, even if not to resolve the problem completely. 

[melmerby]

The 'Cartazzi' truck wheels (with flanges) can be persuaded around tightish curves in the limited space they occupy if the chassis is modified to allow them to rotate.

An extra problem with the W1 is the distance behind the trailing drivers of the second set of wheels (a bissel truck pivoted well forward of the Cartazzi on the prototype)

They cannot swing prototypically on tight radius curves and even 3' would be a challenge, without serious modification to the rear of the chassis due to the limited sideways clearance.

 

If you want your loco to look right put flanged wheels in but don't use it. 🙂

If you want it to run on typical 00 track some modification must be carried out, how much depends on the curvature the loco has to contend with.

Edited June 27, 2022 by melmerby

[Hilux5972]

I will admit that the Bachmann A2 had a good solution. Flanged Cartazzi wheels and they were sprung in such a way that they worked. I don’t don’t how cause it’s been a while since I sold it but it did work. 

[No Decorum]

1 hour ago, Hilux5972 said:

I will admit that the Bachmann A2 had a good solution. Flanged Cartazzi wheels and they were sprung in such a way that they worked. I don’t don’t how cause it’s been a while since I sold it but it did work. 

I like my Bachmann A1s and A2s but they raise the ire of some people because of the necessary compromises in the outside frames. The new Bachmann V2s haven’t got the compromises, which has led to the need to provide unflanged wheels for tighter curves.

[Hilux5972]

1 hour ago, No Decorum said:

I like my Bachmann A1s and A2s but they raise the ire of some people because of the necessary compromises in the outside frames. The new Bachmann V2s haven’t got the compromises, which has led to the need to provide unflanged wheels for tighter curves.

How did they do the cartazzi arrangement? I can’t for life of me remember. Was the axle sprung somehow? Frames wider?

[No Decorum]

17 minutes ago, Hilux5972 said:

How did they do the cartazzi arrangement? I can’t for life of me remember. Was the axle sprung somehow? Frames wider?

The wheelset was vertically sprung and free to deflect to either side. The experts said that the frames were wider apart and the moulded axlebox detail shallower to compensate.

[Hilux5972]

I thought it was something along those lines. 

[micklner]

In a Slide/Slot it then slides from one side to the other with a spring fitted above the axle.

[melmerby]

14 hours ago, No Decorum said:

The new Bachmann V2s haven’t got the compromises, which has led to the need to provide unflanged wheels for tighter curves.

Which brings us back to the Hornby W1 which by necessity has much more of a problem to deal with.

I would have liked Hornby to put a complete removable wheelset, which when removed left an empty space to deal with as one wanted.

The fixed axle mountings just exacerbate the problem.

[cctransuk]

12 hours ago, No Decorum said:

The wheelset was vertically sprung and free to deflect to either side. The experts said that the frames were wider apart and the moulded axlebox detail shallower to compensate.

 

On the face of it, an ideal arrangement would be a pivoting, inside-framed truck, with alternative, plug-in, scale and widened rear frames.

 

CJI.

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, 313201 said:

If I may jump in here please, that was the idea I mentioned about a few pages back in this thread about removing the fixings for the rear bogie and adapating the under cab area to take a pivoting bogie.

 

Can I ask please that if anybody does manage to adapt the under cab area to take a pivoting bogie could pictures of the steps taken along with descriptions of what is done at each step be posted on here please as I would be interested in doing the modification myself if and when I manage to purchase 1 of these locos.

 

Many thanks in advance.

The frames are to scale width externally and cannot as they are accept a bogie to get around anything but fairly wide curves.

Wider than most on here have, I would guess my 3' ones would be a problem

 

The front (Cartazzi) wheelset is not too much of a problem but the overthrow when you get to the bissel truck pair is too much for anything realistic in 00

If Gresley had put a straightforward 4 wheel truck under the Firebox, we wouldn't be having this discussion!

 

N.B. The DJH kit has a swivelling inside framed bogie but the frames are a somewhat overscale width to accommodate it..

 

EDIT Making the whole rear end swivel would do the job but look ridiculous on curves.

Edited July 16, 2022 by melmerby

[Michael Hodgson]

2 hours ago, melmerby said:

EDIT Making the whole rear end swivel would do the job but look ridiculous on curves.

 

It can be argued that a W1 on train sets curves looks ridiculous anyway - so if it looks OK on gentle curves and straights, and can get around a dinner dish, does it really matter if it looks silly while doing so??  Some modellers have quite gentle curves in the scenic part of the layout but very tight ones off-scene.

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

It can be argued that a W1 on train sets curves looks ridiculous anyway - so if it looks OK on gentle curves and straights, and can get around a dinner dish, does it really matter if it looks silly while doing so??  Some modellers have quite gentle curves in the scenic part of the layout but very tight ones off-scene.

Precisely.

The W1 was always going to be a problem to make a faithful model of, due to it's unusual rear end.

[Coldgunner]

One of the weird issues I've found is it coping with slightly uneven track, the transition from flat to incline has to be quite gentle. My E-Z track sometimes undulates due to running on the carpet, and the loco can sometimes sit on the rear-most wheelset and lose traction.

[cctransuk]

3 minutes ago, Coldgunner said:

... running on the carpet ...

 

.... and therein lies your problem; not really weird at all!

 

CJI.

[Coldgunner]

Lol, one of the reasons I invested in a ton of E-Z track, its fairly robust and keeps the loco's above the fluff zone. Hattons did a job lot of straights once, 25x36' straights means a run from the front to the back of the house.

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Coldgunner said:

Lol, one of the reasons I invested in a ton of E-Z track, its fairly robust and keeps the loco's above the fluff zone. Hattons did a job lot of straights once, 25x36' straights means a run from the front to the back of the house.

You must be a fan of Sam's Trains😃

[HExpressD]

To be fair if I was going to run a layout on carpet then EZ track is probably the least worst way to go about it. Having said this, no matter what Sam Strains says running a layout on carpet is always a bad idea for far to many reasons to be bothered to list. My uninformed observation here would be that if you have 200+ pounds to spend on a locomotive you should have £10 to spend on an 8 by 4 sheet of plywood, and I know what one I'd buy first

[cctransuk]

28 minutes ago, Coldgunner said:

Lol, one of the reasons I invested in a ton of E-Z track, its fairly robust and keeps the loco's above the fluff zone. Hattons did a job lot of straights once, 25x36' straights means a run from the front to the back of the house.

 

Fluff, it would seem, is not the only hazard when running on the carpet; a uniformly level substrate is a prerequisite of reliable running.

 

CJI

[Coldgunner]

I very rarely run anything and don't have the space for a layout so the e-z track on the floor is the only solution for me sadly. It does work well for my situation, my carpet is quite thin too, it really doesn't cause any issues for me. The E-Z track lifts it enough it seems. Unfortunately the only 4mm club local to me doesn't have a circular layout.

 

On 25/07/2022 at 18:44, melmerby said:

You must be a fan of Sam's Trains😃

 

Lol, as much as I appreciate the production value he puts in, I don't like the idea of running Hornby/peco track on the floor. I think he's scored loco's poorly as a result of questionable trackwork.

[HExpressD]

3 hours ago, Coldgunner said:

I think he's scored loco's poorly as a result of questionable trackwork.

Or crippling bias and commercial obligations, don't forget that!

[melmerby]

4 minutes ago, HExpressD said:

Or crippling bias and commercial obligations, don't forget that!

The locos he tests have all been bought retail, he doesn't get freebies.

However the amount of dosh he earns from his channel means he has plenty of cash to splash.

[Hilux5972]

Had an email on Friday saying they tried to charge my card for the R3978 Photographic Grey Streamlined W1. Need to move some money around to get it paid for but they have arrived. 

[Opelsi]

I too had an email asking for a (balancing) payment.

This was however for R3979 version on Monday.

Only just seen it so must pay this morning.

Cannot wait for this (ugly) beauty!