mikesndbs Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free At Last Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 Sam casts his expert eye over the Manor... 2 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted August 10, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2022 No mention of the sloping firebox. It ticks all his boxes. 1 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black 5 Bear Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 Just now, gwrrob said: No mention of the sloping firebox. It ticks all his boxes. That's because he's clueless as to what a Manor boiler profile/angle should look like. Harsh I admit, but extremely accurate with regards to the majority of his reviews. 2 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted August 10, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 10, 2022 7 minutes ago, gwrrob said: It ticks all his boxes. in fairness, and this is where forums are arguably a bit flawed, there is such a massive range of standards, knowledge and approaches to modelling - all equally valid given it is just a passtime - that we are never all going to agree. One owner of a layout thread ive always really liked bought a much criticised loco. I said doesnt the flat front bother you and he freely admitted he didnt really know what the real thing looked like: He just liked models in their own right. I do find it slightly odd when people get defensive and try to claim there is nothing wrong with something (different to saying they are happy with it) but lets face it, if we can be so far apart on how to run the country, a model loco is hardly going to be universally viewed! 2 5 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 22 minutes ago, gwrrob said: No mention of the sloping firebox. It ticks all his boxes. But of course why criticise it if it is so massively cheaper than the AS model (in fact RRP is only £10 cheaper), and why bother to get the boiler shape right when he can get it for £140 from Hattons Personally I would rather pay £200 for a correctly shaped and detailed model than £140 for one that isn't. I rather feel Dapol rushed the manor a bit in order to beat the competition. 1 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 Must say, the green in Sam's video looks a lot better than the green in most of the publicity stills! 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted August 10, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2022 26 minutes ago, gwrrob said: No mention of the sloping firebox. It ticks all his boxes. The shape of a model is the most basic thing to get right and the most basic thing to check in a review… 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted August 10, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2022 29 minutes ago, G-BOAF said: I rather feel Dapol rushed the manor a bit in order to beat the competition. It's a marathon ,not a sprint.😉 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigw Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 42 minutes ago, Harlequin said: The shape of a model is the most basic thing to get right and the most basic thing to check in a review… To some of us yes, but when I was involved in doing reviews of Australian models the biggest concerns were how it ran, how much it could haul and what radius curves (though some people thought they should run around corners) it would run around. I often think that railway modelling should be full of brick walls so nobody sees what other groups are doing. Regards, Craig W 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamingWales Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 I think for me, I would say looking at the various photos and videos that have appeared online the Dapol effort as a full package (excluding boiler/firebox) is very good, but looks to have been outshone by the A/S model which is unfortunate. If it was the only one available I would definetly have bought one (maybe more) and have been very happy. That being said if it wasn't for the A/S offering I probably wouldn't have done such a deep dive into researching individual Manors as I have with regards to detail differences e.g. tender and wheel types and what loco had what type of tender when and upset the purists by renumbering one to 7822 when it would have had different wheels and tender for starters 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 2 hours ago, G-BOAF said: But of course why criticise it if it is so massively cheaper than the AS model (in fact RRP is only £10 cheaper), and why bother to get the boiler shape right when he can get it for £140 from Hattons Personally I would rather pay £200 for a correctly shaped and detailed model than £140 for one that isn't. I rather feel Dapol rushed the manor a bit in order to beat the competition. However, the major point he made was NOT the relative cost of the Dapol and Accurascale Manor, but the cost of the Dapol Manor relative to other manufacturers recent products- on RRP it is £60 cheaper than the much older tooling Bachmann Jubilee, £25 cheaper than the Bachmann Hall (remember the panning RMWebbers gave aspects of THAT model?), £70 cheaper than the Bachmann V2, £35 cheaper than the Hornby B12, £18 cheaper than the latest Hornby 08 shunter etc etc. BTW the Dapol Manor was announced first, so logically it should be first to market... With another £100 a month expected on my fuel bills in the new year I for one will not be paying £200 for ANY model that doesn't have a sound chip in it. Les 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidlandRed Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 (edited) On 08/08/2022 at 08:50, adb968008 said: In the lower of these two photos, the firebox clearly slopes upwards from cab to front, and the boiler slopes downwards towards the smokebox - I’d wager that from this angle (which is possibly similar to how we view a model), comparison with the Dapol model would show it to be pretty accurate - so I’m not sure why people are saying it’s wrong? Maybe it looks wrong from some angles, but note that in the upper of the two photos here (of the same loco from a different angle) the loco doesn't appear to have a sloping firebox top and appears to have a much more gently sloping boiler!!!! This appears to be a perspective issue combined with a rather complex set of prototype angles. One presumes Dapol has surveyed one of the prototypes extant combined with drawings and the model actually follows these - presumably Accurascale will be doing/have done the same (possibly even of a different preserved loco)! The fact that several people have posted here their happiness with the model and Sam’s Trains has also given a positive review would suggest the model is indeed a good representation of the Manor class. Edited August 10, 2022 by MidlandRed 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted August 11, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 11, 2022 (edited) 13 hours ago, MidlandRed said: One presumes Dapol has surveyed one of the prototypes extant combined with drawings and the model actually follows these - presumably Accurascale will be doing/have done the same True. These are the two most comparable angles I have seen. Accura top, Dapol bottom Edited August 11, 2022 by Hal Nail 4 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forester Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 13 hours ago, Miss Prism said: Must say, the green in Sam's video looks a lot better than the green in most of the publicity stills! Filmed in a blue room which is reflected in the green livery. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted August 11, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 11, 2022 Much controversy has rightly been aired over the firebox “slope” but ,looking at Dapol’s incarnation,my main area of concern lies below the running plate where for my taste …..and I emphasise this,because it’s a subjective issue…..the wheel tyres are both too thick and too bright and the valve gear doesn’t “do it” for me either. Personally,I wouldn’t lose any sleep over the paint job but let’s just say I have seen better. I know this model is already the pride and joy of some forum members and I respect that,so I wouldn’t wish to cause offence to them in expressing my thoughts on it. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 33 minutes ago, Forester said: Filmed in a blue room which is reflected in the green livery. I agree the tubes are likely to emphasise the blue end, but we don't know what the colour temp of his lighting is, nor do we know what kind of white balance setting he is using in the camera. As usual, lots of unknowns. I agree though there is a general tendency in RTR stuff to make GWR green too light. What helps the Dapol Manor considerably in my view is the degree of shine, i.e. trying to get the right balance of between matt and gloss. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Graham_Muz Posted August 11, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 11, 2022 53 minutes ago, Forester said: Filmed in a blue room which is reflected in the green livery. Perhaps you should communicate your concerns direct with Dapol along with your carefully researched paint colour specifications / evidence rather than continually repeat the same 'muddy colour' posts over and and over again in every Dapol thread... 8 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 Watching Sam's review I am a tad bemused by the performance of his Manor. I have a Dapol Mogul which performs faultlessly although popular opinion said that the gearing was too high and that Dapol were going to rectify this in the Manor. It seems that my Mogul pulls a lot better than his Manor so is there something wrong with his Manor or have I missed something? He runs on DC whereas I am on DCC, should this make any difference? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HExpressD Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 32 minutes ago, JST said: Watching Sam's review I am a tad bemused by the performance of his Manor. I have a Dapol Mogul which performs faultlessly although popular opinion said that the gearing was too high and that Dapol were going to rectify this in the Manor. It seems that my Mogul pulls a lot better than his Manor so is there something wrong with his Manor or have I missed something? He runs on DC whereas I am on DCC, should this make any difference? There could be a fault, and DCC can smooth out some issues but I remember he used to take his locos apart before running them and then would complain of issues. Now he says that he runs them in before taking them apart but hasn't changed the order of the video so I'd imagine he hasn't actually changed this and there could be some duff performance of his own making! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesndbs Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 2 hours ago, HExpressD said: There could be a fault, and DCC can smooth out some issues but I remember he used to take his locos apart before running them and then would complain of issues. Now he says that he runs them in before taking them apart but hasn't changed the order of the video so I'd imagine he hasn't actually changed this and there could be some duff performance of his own making! I suspect that Sam's Manor like most of them needs the tender pickups easing which are too stiff and cause the tender wheels to act like the brake is on. It's an easy fix, not a fault and easy fix that people who buy models of this complexity should easily be able to manage. Your comment about how Sam makes his videos is most unfair. This young talented modeler has set the standard for new model reviews, he has a structured method that he sticks to and he is honest in this as credibility and accountability is everything on YouTube. I have had the pleasure of working with him on a number of projects over the years and he has been 100% trustworthy and honest and extremely giving to the community, may I respectfully suggest that some of that generosity of spirit be afforded to this young man who has shown that you don't need to be a crusty old bloke like me to enjoy and contribute to this hobby. 5 7 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HExpressD Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 25 minutes ago, mikesndbs said: I suspect that Sam's Manor like most of them needs the tender pickups easing which are too stiff and cause the tender wheels to act like the brake is on. It's an easy fix, not a fault and easy fix that people who buy models of this complexity should easily be able to manage. Your comment about how Sam makes his videos is most unfair. This young talented modeler has set the standard for new model reviews, he has a structured method that he sticks to and he is honest in this as credibility and accountability is everything on YouTube. I have had the pleasure of working with him on a number of projects over the years and he has been 100% trustworthy and honest and extremely giving to the community, may I respectfully suggest that some of that generosity of spirit be afforded to this young man who has shown that you don't need to be a crusty old bloke like me to enjoy and contribute to this hobby. Fair enough. You have your experiences and I have my much less involved ones so I'll take you word for it, as you say, maybe I'm getting too crusty and old. Low hanging fruit perhaps, but I'll watch my manors next time ;) 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forester Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 5 hours ago, Graham_Muz said: Perhaps you should communicate your concerns direct with Dapol along with your carefully researched paint colour specifications / evidence rather than continually repeat the same 'muddy colour' posts over and and over again in every Dapol thread... Perhaps Dapol Dave would come on here and indicate he has at least considered the matter. From someone who takes a great deal of effort in getting hisFisherton Sarum SR colour repaints correct I am disappointed with your attitude, Graham. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Graham_Muz Posted August 11, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 11, 2022 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Forester said: Perhaps Dapol Dave would come on here and indicate he has at least considered the matter. From someone who takes a great deal of effort in getting hisFisherton Sarum SR colour repaints correct I am disappointed with your attitude, Graham. You are somewhat behind the times regarding "Dapol Dave" My attitude is exactly as I suggested, in that I engage with the manufacturers and provide them with relevant information to discuss and amend things, as I have done on countless occassions, rather than sit back and wait for someone to respond to posts on a forum. Edited August 11, 2022 by Graham_Muz gramma... 7 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HExpressD Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Forester said: Perhaps Dapol Dave would come on here and indicate he has at least considered the matter. I don't get this kind of statement that to me suggests that there is an idea that if a manufacture does not have an RMweb presence they have their heads in the sand. Perhaps, instead of waiting (probably forever) for Dapol to hop on here and say something, maybe you should email them directly no? https://www.Dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=information/contact Edited August 11, 2022 by HExpressD I'm not very smart - Correction Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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