More model ideas

[Budgie]

13 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Not my era - but a 4SUB ( hint, hint ) would roughly equate in size to a Class 31 plus three Mk1s ...... say £360 list DC !!?!

I would buy a couple of 4SUBs to make an 8-car train, just like the ones I used to travel on when I was a teenager in the 1960s.

[NBL]

I'd pay up to £400 for a 303/311.  And same for a 314.  With or without sound.

 

I'd buy a couple of each, probably 3 each if they retailed at  around £300

[MJI]

11 hours ago, Godfrey Glyn said:

Thank you so much Fran for your questions which have clearly started an interesting discussion. That you did engage with us is what we have come to expect and appreciate as modellers and customers.

I have always been a fan of the 5WES and in terms of design I consider them to be one of the very best designed EMUs that has been produced in this country. They looked good and were comfortable to ride in as a passenger. I hasten to add that I have absolutely no knowledge regarding their technical strengths or weaknesses! As mentioned by Dunsignalling above, I think there are just three types of coach in the five car set which could make its selection cheaper than five very different coaches ( happy or perhaps sad to be told that I am wrong!).

Regarding price I think your Irish Multiple Units are very reasonably priced for what they are and I am making a totally  uneducated guess that sales of a Southern EMU might even be greater than your Irish units . Very few of us can afford to buy dozens of 5WESs at those prices but looking at the numbers of your wagons running behind your Class 37s on YouTube videos and at exhibitions I suspect that there are more out there willing to pay for top notch models than most of us appreciate. You produce top notch models at prices that a lot of us consider to be fair prices, I have proved that to myself by the number of Class 55s and 37s that have arrived at my house, either direct from you or via my local excellent shop in Alton. So in short, if you produced the 5WES at the sort of proportional prices that you charge for your Irish units, I would be planning a new layout and saving the pounds in anticipation of their release!

many thanks Fran

 

Godfrey

 

5WES is basically a half a 4REP, the buffet is basically all the power gear from one 4REP DMS.

 

It HAS to have loco like power, 4 axle drive, and buffet motorised.

[lego legs]

I'd love to see the modern era southern units modelled. To me it's amazing the Electrostars haven't been done or the 319's in OO. There's tons of liveries, reasonably good geographic spread of the prototype. I also imagine given the population of the areas they serve loads of people will have had some connection to them.

 

I also selfishly want a class 455 and 456 (Connex 'Sir Cosmo Bonsor' 😉) but I can appreciate that these have less liveries and geographical spread. But if Hornby can make the FLIRT (which would seem way more limited to me) then I'd say these would surely be more viable given they're a Mk3 bodyshell. 

 

By the way, I'm 38 and I buy the odd steam loco for fun, but MU's are what I'd much prefer to see. The only passenger loco hauled trains I've seen were the Gatwick Express, TPE Mk5's and Virgin XC. But everyday for years I'd travel past Selhurst Depot and see more MU's than I can count. 

[Fair Oak Junction]

Another factor related to modern era locos/MUs is licensing. That must add cost to a potential project surely?

If you are putting a modern livery on say an HST, or 158, then the only agreement you'd need would be the operator whose livery you are using I assume.

But for modern units/locos, I guess you'd also need the agreement of the manufacturer of it (say, Bombardier or Hitachi) which an extra hoop to jump through.

Edited January 16 by Fair Oak Junction

[Wickham Green too]

I'm not sure the Licensing Acts apply in 4mm scale !!?!

 

Basingstoke ; 29/7/90 ......................... CHEERS !

[TrainsRule88]

I think there is definitely a gap in the market for modern image DMU’s & EMU’s in 00 gauge, however I also think that there is a shortage of modern image units in O gauge also. 
 

Heljan have just entered this area in O gauge with there superb looking class 153 DMU due to be released later this year or early next year. 
 

With Accurascale recently entering the O gauge market, perhaps might be worth considering some modern units. For example  class 150 or class 158 in O gauge would be amazing. I know the cost of O gauge is higher and the space it needs is much bigger, but by starting off by releasing smaller modern units such as the class 150, I think would be a great idea as this could start off a new era of small space O gauge layouts as it would be easy to create a modern branch line terminus for a 2 coach unit in a fairly small space. I am myself currently building a modern image O gauge branch line terminus station for the new Heljan class 153 and the whole layout is only 1 foot wide by 6 foot long with a 4 foot storage yard. Perfect for a 2 car class 150 😉. 
 

Also with the option to pay for pre- order models in instalments like is possible with Accurascale,

then O gauge could be more affordable for more people and you can’t beat the presence of an O gauge model in the smaller scales. 

[newbryford]

1 hour ago, lego legs said:

I'd love to see the modern era southern units modelled. To me it's amazing the Electrostars haven't been done or the 319's in OO. There's tons of liveries, reasonably good geographic spread of the prototype. I also imagine given the population of the areas they serve loads of people will have had some connection to them.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, TrainsRule88 said:

I think there is definitely a gap in the market for modern image DMU’s & EMU’s in 00 gauge, however I also think that there is a shortage of modern image units in O gauge also. 

 

 

The first quote hits the nail on the head for new units - IMO. Lack of geographical spread and liveries.

More liveries and more routes = more sales.

 

As much as I'd like a 195 or 331, I can't see a (RTR) model of it until there's ate least another franchise/livery on them.

 

(I haven't had a good look to see if anything is common with a 196/197 that might share development costs)

Edited January 16 by newbryford

[wombatofludham]

On 15/01/2024 at 09:53, Accurascale Fran said:

Likewise, how much for a 4 car unit with the same spec, and say working raising and lowering pan (where applicable).

 

Just caught up with this.

I've just bought a Britannia Pacific custom made Class 310 emu (brass/resin/plastic) for which I shelled out £800, but that is an outlier, and very much a one-off.

To be honest the prices you are charging for the Irish 22xxx units hits the right spot.  Were you to consider for the sake of argument a Class 310.312 for example, which would necessitate five distinct body shells and adaptations to accommodate five different cab ends, it would be a massive tooling kit and consequent investment. Whilst there is a good range of liveries and a reasonable, albeit southern and Midlands bias, I imagine there would have to be a risk costing included in the price to ensure you got the cost of the outlay back plus at least a pint of Guinness back on each sale - so I personally would think around £600 would be fair especially if it had all the expected play value of modern rolling stock (although a performing pantograph isn't something I'm bothered about).  If you were to consider the "PEP" units (313-508) you might be able to achieve a more economical set of tools as apart from the revised lamp clusters on the Merseyrail refurbished units there are just two body mouldings and a high degree of standardisation.  There is a greater range of liveries and more geographical spread, so it would probably involve a lower level of risk economically and that could be possibly be factored in the price.

I think for a heritage 3 car DMU (say a Class 116) between £350 and 400 wouldn't scare my horses, and would probably sell in greater numbers than an AC electric unit so the financial risk is probably less.

How much I would be prepared to pay for an Accurascale HST in the 1980s=90s cross country formation is hard to say but I'd find the money to get one even if I have to sell my body as a toy boy to my elderly neighbours.  I expect it wouldn't leave much change from £800, so I'd better get advertising.

[Tim Dubya]

Personally I'm only after two car DMU's but I would happily pay £300 for a DCC ready (I don't do DCC atm) set.  I was happy enough with the EFE LSWR Cross-country 3 coach sets to pay £195 for them, so by my logic £300 would be the sweet spot for a two car.  For a five car, I'd go to £450 for DCC ready.

 

You gets what you pays for at the end of the day.  Even if here were kits for what I want, I wouldn't be happy with my 'build quality', such are my skills atm. 

 

Edited January 16 by Tim Dubya

[Legend]

To answer Frans question directly . I’d say £300-350 ish for a 3 car emu , based on existing locos cost of £170 + £60 for 2 coaches as a baseline .   Many emus actually are only 2 body mouldings ie the Driving Motor and the pantograph Centre car , so you don’t have tooling costs for three cars .But it depends on the model £300-£350 for a 3 car emu with £60 a car beyond that . I note dapols 323 is £350 . 
 

I am a DC Luddite so have little interested in through wiring and pantographs that raise or lower, but I accept that the market probably wants these functions . However I’d love to see stripped back versions and full fat versions for DCCers . You can charge them a fortune but keep the basic model reasonable 😀
 

I know you’ve said you are not making one - but I still think a 313/314/315/507/508 is low hanging fruit . Whoever that is that making it is sure taking a long time ! Suspect it’s Bachmann which is further bad news on the cost front !  Another vote for a 303 from me though . Stylish units 

Edited January 16 by Legend

[wombatofludham]

Just a thought - how about an IE 29000 unit and the UK class 195-6-7 variants?  The bodysides share nothing in common (IE units having recessed sliding doors, the UK versions having plug doors and more windows) and there will be multiple cab ends, but at least you'd only have one manufacturer to approach for CAD drawings.  And given your keen pricing, you would be able to say that in this case, CAF really does mean Cheap as....

....but only after you've given us the 80 class.  Cash still waiting.

[Accurascale Fran]

Hi folks,

 

Thanks very much fo the feedback, and it really is great to get some insight into what the market itself thinks. I'm aware that my question was and method was not the most scientific, but there is some food for thought there and some good suggestions thrown into the mix.

 

Now that desired price has been outlined, what about quantities? If we were to make your dream unit tomorrow, at the price you have in mind, how many units would you buy?

 

Answers on a postcard, and of course should anyone else wish to post their thoughts to my previous query about price, please continue to do so below too.

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

[97406]

In the meantime, after much squinting and filing, I think I've managed to get a symmetrical Class 304 cab front. The race is on.....

 

[Fair Oak Junction]

44 minutes ago, Accurascale Fran said:

Now that desired price has been outlined, what about quantities? If we were to make your dream unit tomorrow, at the price you have in mind, how many units would you buy?

 

If a 4COR in SR livery was made tomorrow, I'd buy at least two sets for sure.

 

Edit: Don't forget, there is a complete 4 car set preserved.....ready to be scanned.....hint hint 😉

Edited January 16 by Fair Oak Junction

[Gray69]

I also think the prices you are charging for the Irish units are fair, and I would be willing to pay similar amounts for 455, 456, 319, SR EPB, CIG, BIG and 377 models. Also a decent 3 car 101 and 119 would be nice 😉

 

As for how many

455, 456, 319 and CIG in NSE, Connex and Southern. Thats 12 units to start with

 

Edited January 16 by Gray69

[reddragon]

23 minutes ago, Accurascale Fran said:

Hi folks,

 

Thanks very much fo the feedback, and it really is great to get some insight into what the market itself thinks. I'm aware that my question was and method was not the most scientific, but there is some food for thought there and some good suggestions thrown into the mix.

 

Now that desired price has been outlined, what about quantities? If we were to make your dream unit tomorrow, at the price you have in mind, how many units would you buy?

 

Answers on a postcard, and of course should anyone else wish to post their thoughts to my previous query about price, please continue to do so below too.

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

I would purchase a realistic full set, be that 8-12 cars, not a single unit of 3/4 cars.

 

To go beyond one set, it would have to be Electrostar or similar, so widely spread & liveried. Also available on AC or DC only lines is a bonus too! C2C, Southern, Connex, Thameslink, GWR, Great Northern, Anglia, GWR, Heathrow, TfL and who knows where next for the class 379s.

 

 

[Steven B]

39 minutes ago, Accurascale Fran said:

If we were to make your dream unit tomorrow, at the price you have in mind, how many units would you buy?

 

It depends... 

 

For a unit that was relatively rare in my area/time-frame probably just the one. For something more likely to be seen then half a dozen. Both could be a dream unit, but I try to keep my models in proportion with what was running in my region/period of interest. Overlapping liveries could provide additional sales. 

 

It's probably worth noting that the right unit could spawn a completely new layout. For my main interests I'd happy have one or two class 304 along with two or three  of class 110s. However, make a class 504 and the temptation to model Bury Interchange could be over powering resulting in sales of half a dozen in a mix of liveries.

 

I'll be interesting to see the comments that follow and if shorter MU's are likely to sell in larger numbers than their longer shed-mates. Similarly, are units that commonly ran in trains of two or three sets likely to sell more?

 

Steven B

Edited January 16 by Steven B

[Legend]

My dream unit is a 303 . I think I would go for 3 , maybe not all at the same time though . Caley Blue, BR Blue and BR Blue Grey . Just for completeness you could also do Strathclyde Orange and Black and Greater Manchester Brown and orange .  At £350 a go I’d certainly sign up .  If it was a 314 then probably 3 again Blue Grey, orange Black and Crimson Cream . And again for completeness you could do a Spotrail version .

 

These  are ones I’d really like . I’d contemplate something out of area eg 310 unit but probably buy only one . Contemplating the 323 but as units go I think that’s a strange choice , the unit being fairly bland , especially the front. 

[E100]

Strange idea in some ways but I would be half tempted to go after the IEP market. These things are everywhere and with plenty of liveries in under 10 years with no sign of any slow down either. Like with a class 37/47 in time there'll be plenty of room for more than one manufacturer. Granted I appreciate it's the ever unpopular duplication...

 

A 185 makes sense in so many ways. They've run over a huge geographical area and you could easily justify a couple of these running together to the point where selling them as 6 car packs wouldn't be that much of a rogue idea at all. They also compliment your mk5 TPE sets that could help drive sales of another batch of these even though they have been withdrawn.

 

The units for me personally though have already been done or are soon to be done so I'm out on this one. A new 153 would be welcome though.

 

 

[Watto1990]

The sweet spot for me would c.£100 a vehicle, plus another £125 for sound. But I would very easily be persuaded to go much much higher for any of my special favourites...

 

44 minutes ago, Accurascale Fran said:

Now that desired price has been outlined, what about quantities? If we were to make your dream unit tomorrow, at the price you have in mind, how many units would you buy?

 

Any of my dream units would probably see me ordering two sets for a start. I'd want a pair of TfL Rail 315s. From an Electrostar release I'd kick off with 2 Hex 387s and probably a GWR 387. And if canny tooling made a D78 Stock / Vivarail D-Train release possible I would be in the market for 230001 in GWR guise and a full LU rake. 

 

Which makes me wonder - if AS chose a longer prototype how would that be split? For example would a Class 700 come in a megasized 12 car box, or as a base set of say, the two driving vehicles with a trailer or two and additional add on coach packs available separately?

 

[lego legs]

In answer to Fran's post, I think the pricing of the Irish MU's feels about right. 

 

One thing I want to highlight as it's been discussed on the Cavalex forum is how good partial.ly is as a method of paying. It's not credit and I don't have £500 on hand to spend in one go, but over three months I can manage it and not worry about something selling out. Which I think is particularly useful when talking about buying an MU which won't be cheap.

 

I'd most likely buy multiples of any southern EMU that ran from the NSE toothpaste era to now. I personally wouldn't but anything longer than an 8 car unit (a lot of platforms at suburban stations can only take 8/10 coaches anyway) so whether that was two 377's or a 455 and a 456 together, I guess it would depend on what was available to make combinations. 

 

One thing I find slightly crazy is that I can't model almost any of the modern south that easily (unless I buy a Bratchell model which is massively expensive and I still have to do the interior and the motor), but I can pretty much model the very niche Oxted line with my 205's and 170, which I think shows that DMU's are generally well represented, but EMU's are not nearly as good.

Edited January 16 by lego legs

[Accurascale Fran]

23 minutes ago, lego legs said:

In answer to Fran's post, I think the pricing of the Irish MU's feels about right. 

 

One thing I want to highlight as it's been discussed on the Cavalex forum is how good partial.ly is as a method of paying. It's not credit and I don't have £500 on hand to spend in one go, but over three months I can manage it and not worry about something selling out. Which I think is particularly useful when talking about buying an MU which won't be cheap.

 

I'd most likely buy multiples of any southern EMU that ran from the NSE toothpaste era to now. I personally wouldn't but anything longer than an 8 car unit (a lot of platforms at suburban stations can only take 8/10 coaches anyway) so whether that was two 377's or a 455 and a 456 together, I guess it would depend on what was available to make combinations. 

 

One thing I find slightly crazy is that I can't model almost any of the modern south that easily (unless I buy a Bratchell model which is massively expensive and I still have to do the interior and the motor), but I can pretty much model the very niche Oxted line with my 205's and 170, which I think shows that DMU's are generally well represented, but EMU's are not nearly as good.

 

Hi @lego legs,

 

Yes indeed, partially is great and makes up a good percentage of our direct pre-orders. We also have Clearpay and PayPal credit options to help spread the cost of in stock items should you fancy those too. https://www.accurascale.com/pages/flexible-instalment-options

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

[atom3624]

One problem I have is that I like running my model railways, not just looking at them.

This previously meant running some from 20 minutes to up to 3 hours - for an 08 at 15-17 mph equivalent for example.

I've stopped this practice, certainly since I had the need for a replacement motor on my 37 - resolved without any issues and many thanks.

 

My proposal is that bushes and motors now tend to be very difficult to access without dismantling substantial parts of the recently issued, highly detailed models.

I believe much more consideration should be given to assist the modeller in the general 'routine maintenance' which will include the occasional few drops of oil on each and every bush, including motor bushes in particular.

Some Bachmann diesels (37 or 40?) even had slots / access points underneath to permit access to add a little oil to the motor bushes without any dismantling.  Perfect!!

 

Mentioning the motors, in the event a replacement motor is required, quite major surgery is required.  This should be as straightforward as possible, wiring trunked where able to avoid risk of disabling cab lights, etc ....

Al.

[McC]

8 minutes ago, atom3624 said:

One problem I have is that I like running my model railways, not just looking at them.

This previously meant running some from 20 minutes to up to 3 hours - for an 08 at 15-17 mph equivalent for example.

I've stopped this practice, certainly since I had the need for a replacement motor on my 37 - resolved without any issues and many thanks.

 

My proposal is that bushes and motors now tend to be very difficult to access without dismantling substantial parts of the recently issued, highly detailed models.

I believe much more consideration should be given to assist the modeller in the general 'routine maintenance' which will include the occasional few drops of oil on each and every bush, including motor bushes in particular.

Some Bachmann diesels (37 or 40?) even had slots / access points underneath to permit access to add a little oil to the motor bushes without any dismantling.  Perfect!!

 

Mentioning the motors, in the event a replacement motor is required, quite major surgery is required.  This should be as straightforward as possible, wiring trunked where able to avoid risk of disabling cab lights, etc ....

Al.

 

Our feeling is that disassembly is not routine maintenance, and if there is an issue, send it to us.