More model ideas

[frobisher]

9 hours ago, mdvle said:

That said, I suspect at some point someone will (licensing being available) do the 88 unless economic factors cause problems going forward given we are at a point where the 69 and 93 are being done...

 

The 69 has to be the easiest sell ever, each loco has a unique livery and you have a potential 56 as a stopping off point for future developments.

 

[Torbay Express]

9 hours ago, frobisher said:

 

The 69 has to be the easiest sell ever, each loco has a unique livery and you have a potential 56 as a stopping off point for future developments.

 

The only problem being by the time the current manufacturer makes it, the real things will probably need another rebuild and GBRf  will have yet another owner....

[Torbay Express]

Ok, this is a long shot but Dapol have really sold a huge amount of their clay slurry tanker, a little dated and lacking a fine ladders.  With A/S ladder capabilities demonstrated with their PCA,  how about the proper 'Caledonian Paper Plc.' Silver Bullets to an Accurascale standard.  Not sure if they wore any other liveries, I know there were some slurry tanks in ECC blue.  Or even if with the correct bogies, a couple of different slurry tank bodies could be justified?

 

Combined with future runs of standard tooled 37/0's, 37/4's and 37/5 particularly in 37669-675 series, all products would very much compliment each other.....

 

Just an idea......

[TomScrut]

45 minutes ago, Torbay Express said:

Dapol have really sold a huge amount of their clay slurry tanker

 

I'd have thought because there are loads about that there won't be much demand for more. Will there be people wanting to sell their current rakes on eBay to replace them with a better one?

 

Not saying it's a bad idea, just thinking that it's probably one that might not be worth the spend. Especially how competitive Dapol are with their pricing and how willing they are to do reruns, something that typically isn't said about some of the competition

Edited April 26, 2022 by TomScrut

[Global]

An MSV as used from Peak Forest in the 80s would be good - for me anyway! 

[Covkid]

On 24/04/2022 at 22:32, R. Knowles said:

Okay then, on the subject of multiple units here's a few ideas that spring to mind: On the first generation DMU front: GRCW Class 100, Park Royal Class 103,  Wickham Class 109, Derby Classes 114, 115 and 127, BRCW Class 118, GRCW Cross-Country Class 119, Swindon InterCity Classes 120, 123 and 126 and of course the Trans-Pennine Class 124.

 

 

I think there would be a useful link between the 114 and the 119 / 120. The window and door layout is identical between the class 114 DTCL and the class 119 / 120 DMCL but there are perceived differences in the bodyshell profile. I think the 119 and 120 centre cars are similar apart from one window. The driving brakes of course are quite different, and the few Inverness allocated Swindon cars had the extra brakevan space instead of the first class, and also had tablet catchers on the guards area. Class 120 would also require several iterations of cab ends, headcode boxes lights etc. 

 

 

[Accurascale Fran]

On 22/04/2022 at 20:39, Wickham Green too said:

2P or not 2P - that IS the question !

 

 

Funny enough we were just down the road from this engine all weekend attending the Bangor Model Railway Show in the name of IRM....

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

[Torbay Express]

2 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

I'd have thought because there are loads about that there won't be much demand for more. Will there be people wanting to sell their current rakes on eBay to replace them with a better one?

 

Not saying it's a bad idea, just thinking that it's probably one that might not be worth the spend. Especially how competitive Dapol are with their pricing and how willing they are to do reruns, something that typically isn't said about some of the competition

That's why I said bit of a long shot, but the proper bullets have never been made, plus China Clay wagons are very popular.  Plus the steps and meshing is very crude on Dapols. Despite this, they still sell a considerable quantity, so imagine the potential sales of the real McCoy!  Plus if priced towards the HYA price -  for a twin pack think would be excellent value.  Plus it's about 10 or 12 in a rake for the Devon Banks.

 

Also didn't know if a similar tank that could be tooled at the same time??? Thinking ECC Blue long ones?

 

 

[No Decorum]

6 hours ago, Accurascale Fran said:

 

Funny enough we were just down the road from this engine all weekend attending the Bangor Model Railway Show in the name of IRM....

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

Where I prodded him about a W and WT. The poor man gets prodded so much, it’s a wonder he’s not full of holes!

[mdvle]

4 hours ago, Torbay Express said:

Plus the steps and meshing is very crude on Dapols. Despite this, they still sell a considerable quantity, so imagine the potential sales of the real McCoy!

 

Might be a better option to submit a request to Dapol to update their model to bring it up to more modern standards with new steps and meshing.  A minimal investment compared to tooling an entire new model, and something anyone else considering your suggestion would need to take as a risk as Dapol could do the upgrade and be "good enough" for many.

[Torbay Express]

9 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

Might be a better option to submit a request to Dapol to update their model to bring it up to more modern standards with new steps and meshing.  A minimal investment compared to tooling an entire new model, and something anyone else considering your suggestion would need to take as a risk as Dapol could do the upgrade and be "good enough" for many.

Got (more than) enough ICAs of their version, it's the other China Clay types, and I would imagine most are in the same boat. Just using the example of the Dapol ICA to demonstrate that the demand for China Clay Slurry Tanks exists.  Plus when A/S do other Class 37 types, the Caledonian Paper Plc. tanks are one of, if not the most prestigious working that freight 37's worked in the 90's and fair game for anyone modelling the West of the country from Burngullow to Irvine! 

[wombatofludham]

18 hours ago, Covkid said:

 

I think there would be a useful link between the 114 and the 119 / 120. The window and door layout is identical between the class 114 DTCL and the class 119 / 120 DMCL but there are perceived differences in the bodyshell profile. I think the 119 and 120 centre cars are similar apart from one window. The driving brakes of course are quite different, and the few Inverness allocated Swindon cars had the extra brakevan space instead of the first class, and also had tablet catchers on the guards area. Class 120 would also require several iterations of cab ends, headcode boxes lights etc. 

 

 

I've got a feeling the window shape and depth differ between the 114, 119 and 120, plus the 120 has a deeper chassis frame.

However, if Accurascale were to develop a long-frame DMU chassis, then there might be some mileage in doing a family of units - the 114 as a two car unit would be in the same market segment as the Bachmann 108 but sufficiently different to appeal to those of us who are fart-cart fans (plus a lot of them ended up at Tyseley in the 80s and then got used everywhere from Yarmouth to Barmouth), a 116 would be in the same market segment as the Bachmann 117 but covering a greater geographical area, again not competing head on with the Bachmann product but complementary, whilst the 119 would be a new market segment which hasn't yet been tackled, the first generation "long haul" DMU.  I'm sure that a lot of components could be shared between the units even if things like body mouldings and some underframe details differed.

Any of these three being produced would further aid my road to bankruptcy.

[Global]

1 hour ago, wombatofludham said:

I've got a feeling the window shape and depth differ between the 114, 119 and 120, plus the 120 has a deeper chassis frame.

However, if Accurascale were to develop a long-frame DMU chassis, then there might be some mileage in doing a family of units - the 114 as a two car unit would be in the same market segment as the Bachmann 108 but sufficiently different to appeal to those of us who are fart-cart fans (plus a lot of them ended up at Tyseley in the 80s and then got used everywhere from Yarmouth to Barmouth), a 116 would be in the same market segment as the Bachmann 117 but covering a greater geographical area, again not competing head on with the Bachmann product but complementary, whilst the 119 would be a new market segment which hasn't yet been tackled, the first generation "long haul" DMU.  I'm sure that a lot of components could be shared between the units even if things like body mouldings and some underframe details differed.

Any of these three being produced would further aid my road to bankruptcy.

I’d certainly want several 114s to replace my Bachmann fleet of 108s and a 116 or two would be good too!

 

If the SYPTE brown and cream 114 could be done too then all the better! 

 

How about a 111 as well?! ;-) 

 

[GordonC]

4 hours ago, Global said:

I’d certainly want several 114s to replace my Bachmann fleet of 108s and a 116 or two would be good too!

 

If the SYPTE brown and cream 114 could be done too then all the better! 

 

How about a 111 as well?! ;-) 

 

 

I'd really think a Class 119/120 would be a good shout, they got about a bit and I think they've only ever been available as kits

[Torbay Express]

5 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

I've got a feeling the window shape and depth differ between the 114, 119 and 120, plus the 120 has a deeper chassis frame.

However, if Accurascale were to develop a long-frame DMU chassis, then there might be some mileage in doing a family of units - the 114 as a two car unit would be in the same market segment as the Bachmann 108 but sufficiently different to appeal to those of us who are fart-cart fans (plus a lot of them ended up at Tyseley in the 80s and then got used everywhere from Yarmouth to Barmouth), a 116 would be in the same market segment as the Bachmann 117 but covering a greater geographical area, again not competing head on with the Bachmann product but complementary, whilst the 119 would be a new market segment which hasn't yet been tackled, the first generation "long haul" DMU.  I'm sure that a lot of components could be shared between the units even if things like body mouldings and some underframe details differed.

Any of these three being produced would further aid my road to bankruptcy.

As long as they do the 118, so I can get my hands on a British Telecom liveried example I'll be happy!  Kernow were going to do it, but when Bachmann announced their 117 intentions, Kernow pulled out of their 117/118.

[reddragon]

The Electrostars have a wider appeal, many liveries and a broad spread across the UK.

 

c387 = 4 routes, 6 liveries

c379 = 2 routes / liveries

c377 = Southern 2 routes / liveries

c375 = 2 routes / liveries 

c172 = 2 routes / liveries

 

You can model all southern routes, all eastern routes, GWR & MML from London. Only Euston / Chiltern missed, but Birmingham covered.

 

That's without the c170,171 / 357,375,378s without corridor ends! Rest of UK covered there!

 

[Global]

31 minutes ago, reddragon said:

The Electrostars have a wider appeal, many liveries and a broad spread across the UK.

 

c387 = 4 routes, 6 liveries

c379 = 2 routes / liveries

c377 = Southern 2 routes / liveries

c375 = 2 routes / liveries 

c172 = 2 routes / liveries

 

You can model all southern routes, all eastern routes, GWR & MML from London. Only Euston / Chiltern missed, but Birmingham covered.

 

That's without the c170,171 / 357,375,378s without corridor ends! Rest of UK covered there!

 

Wider appeal to what though?! 
 

In terms of area covered I’d say the Electrostar has quite a narrow spread really, pretty much within the former Network SouthEast area and not much else other than GWR operating them to Cardiff, but that’s only very recent. 
 

The 172 were diesel last time I looked! ;-) But to be fair have probably covered a wider area number of areas and liveries than you’ve given them credit for! 
 

London Overground

Chiltern

London Midland

West Midlands Railway temporary 

West Midlands Railway (however many versions until they made their mind up!) 

And they’ve moved about a bit in those liveries too, I think the LO ones ran in that livery in the midlands before repainting and the Chiltern ones are currently at WMR too. 
 

I don’t knock anyone who wants an Electrostar as if you want one you want one but I do wonder how widespread the actual demand for one is? The Bachmann Desiro 350/450 has, I would say a larger geographical spread but they don’t seem to have offered any of the newer liveries recently.

First TransPennine Express

TransPennine Express

Plain Grey

London Northwestern Railway temp

London Northwestern Railway

South Western Railway stripes

South Western Railway plain

 

And with the different cab they could have offered all the versions of 360.

 

There is still time of course but TransPennine stuff seems really popular so I’m surprised that one of those hasn’t appeared before. 

 

It just strikes me that these units don’t have the demand, or enough of it, to make them appealing to (some) manufacturers, but I readily admit that is just my feeling! While I was was still going for privatisation era models I picked up several London Midland units very cheaply as they seemed to be slow sellers. 

It would be really interesting to carry out a census to actually get a true idea how many model where, what era, what amount they’d (truthfully) purchase etc! 

 

[virginhst539]

If we are playing this game again 320/321 and 322 or the 31* classes. Countless routes and must have just about covered every corner of the UK where electric traction current is supplied. Problem is with the price of everything going up the now don't think many could justify 3/4 car new tooled EMUs.... 

[phil-b259]

4 hours ago, reddragon said:

The Electrostars have a wider appeal, many liveries and a broad spread across the UK.

 

c387 = 4 routes, 6 liveries

c379 = 2 routes / liveries

c377 = Southern 2 routes / liveries

c375 = 2 routes / liveries 

c172 = 2 routes / liveries

 

You can model all southern routes, all eastern routes, GWR & MML from London. Only Euston / Chiltern missed, but Birmingham covered.

 

That's without the c170,171 / 357,375,378s without corridor ends! Rest of UK covered there!

 

 

Please be aware that the Turbostaer family (class 170s and 171s) are based on a 23m Mk3 length bodyshell!

 

The Electriostar EMU family by contrast are of the traditional 20m length.

 

Also note that some Electrostars / Turbostars have ribbon glazing but others have traditional windows with rubber seals - and as with the length these may not be possible to cover with a single tooling suite.

 

 

[dj_crisp]

20 hours ago, Torbay Express said:

As long as they do the 118, so I can get my hands on a British Telecom liveried example I'll be happy!  Kernow were going to do it, but when Bachmann announced their 117 intentions, Kernow pulled out of their 117/118.

 

i think the only difference between the 117 & 118 is the curved headcode box at the front (I've been trying to work out the shape of it so I can mod a Bachmann 117).  Also I've been doing a bit of research and again the front headcode roof area seems to be the only difference on the 116 driving cars... with a different centre car layout. Very happy to be corrected!! If either of these two appear I suspect Bachmann could do it relatively cheaply (as the lighting circuit board seems to have provision for illuminated top headcodes and front headlights that I've used on a bubble which to me suggests further toolings are thought about). And then there is the 115. If I was Bachmann I'd be looking to get plenty of milage out of the 117/121 underframe.

 

The 114 is a good shout as is a 119 or 120... I'd really like a 120 :)

 

 

[Wickham Green too]

20 hours ago, Global said:

... In terms of area covered I’d say the Electrostar has quite a narrow spread really,  ..... 

Southampton to Ramsgate via Milton Keynes & Brighton, much of East Anglia and whichever bits of Western-Land are wired this week - so a fair chunk of the country ............ and don't forget this the effluent sarf east where we have lots of spare dosh to spend on our toys - in theory !

[Global]

10 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Southampton to Ramsgate via Milton Keynes & Brighton, much of East Anglia and whichever bits of Western-Land are wired this week - so a fair chunk of the country ............ and don't forget this the effluent sarf east where we have lots of spare dosh to spend on our toys - in theory !

As I said - former NSE area - so in terms of modelling it’s really only quite a narrow spread of the country! ;-) Apart from Cardiff, which I mentioned, and ironically this is probably the biggest draw for a 387 as GWR stuff is usually quite popular! 

 

The Desiro has, or had, a much wider spread if not the numbers of units - from Weymouth across to Ipswich (possibly Norwich?!), Heathrow, London to the Midlands and North West and up  to Glasgow/Edinburgh so potentially more appealing to those modelling different areas rather than just the South East. But for whatever reason Bachmann hasn’t released any further 350s or modified the front to a 360?

 

Is that just because they’ve not got around to it yet or are these not the best sellers? Only Bachmann will know that though! 
 

It would be interesting to know how many model where they live though! I’m from the South East but have no interest in modelling it and am torn between South Yorkshire or Scotland! Lol.

 

 

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, Global said:

The Desiro has, or had, a much wider spread if not the numbers of units - from Weymouth across to Ipswich (possibly Norwich?!), Heathrow, London to the Midlands and North West and up  to Glasgow/Edinburgh so potentially more

 

If you include the 185, which I think would be a very popular unit, then you have the NW across the Pennines to Scarborough, Middlesbrough down to Cleethorpes and then up to Newcastle.

[wombatofludham]

1 hour ago, Global said:

Is that just because they’ve not got around to it yet or are these not the best sellers? Only Bachmann will know that though! 
 

I suspect, as I have said before, if the 350 didn't do so well it is possibly because it is really only contemporaneous with the Pendolino, Voyager and mainly Class 66s and 92s and so the increased availability of AC electric loco models doesn't really sit with the model.  Hornby's Pendo isn't the best, and I suspect would struggle with a full 9 car rake if you could get the coaches (the Virgin ones are rarer than hen's teeth), plus would be a bit long for most layouts, the Voyager from Bachmann fetch daft money but are more layout-friendly, so if you want to run a Dessie under the knitting, you would almost be looking at a Rule 1 purchase.

The 450 is also a bit of a knobby no mates as there isn't a model of the "Arkwright" Desiros, no inner suburban 455s and apart from the 159, little else to run alongside it.  You could theoretically run a 450 only model as some lines see nothing but the 450 but I suspect it wouldn't really be the most engaging project.

I know a lot of modellers don't go into such anal levels of detail, but many of us do and much as I love the Desiro 350 I will shortly be letting mine go simply because it is effectively a model out on it's own.

[TomScrut]

41 minutes ago, wombatofludham said:

I suspect, as I have said before, if the 350 didn't do so well it is possibly because it is really only contemporaneous with the Pendolino, Voyager and mainly Class 66s and 92s and so the increased availability of AC electric loco models doesn't really sit with the model.  Hornby's Pendo isn't the best, and I suspect would struggle with a full 9 car rake if you could get the coaches (the Virgin ones are rarer than hen's teeth), plus would be a bit long for most layouts, the Voyager from Bachmann fetch daft money but are more layout-friendly, so if you want to run a Dessie under the knitting, you would almost be looking at a Rule 1 purchase.

 

Surely anyone with a WCML layout is now in a good place stock wise in terms of what's available? Assuming Bachmann had done plenty of suitable liveries there are the aforementioned Voyagers, Pendos but also 92s, 66s, 90s, and their appropriate stock. 350s would sit nicely with any of this IMO.