Mark 2b, By Accurascale and IRM!

[brushman47544]

2 hours ago, MJI said:

 

WR have very mixed sets.

 

Seen in the real world the following mixes

 

2 C D E F

1 D E F

1 2 B D E F

 

Not seen an aircon set of just one type with a W at the front of the numbers.

 

This does mean to get a decent look modifying across DEF, so Airfix get used.

 

You did see all Mk2e rakes on the MML before HSTs and then on cross-country services once transferred there, except for the Mk1 RBR and/or BG of course.

[MJI]

27 minutes ago, brushman47544 said:

 

You did see all Mk2e rakes on the MML before HSTs and then on cross-country services once transferred there, except for the Mk1 RBR and/or BG of course.

 

Seen all 3A, all 2E, all 2D on ER, but WR never just one type, even all 2B sets had the odd 2A.

 

Currently keeps Laserglaze going.

[Hound Dog]

2B or not 2B - that is the question…… Any update on when these might actually appear ?

[45125]

On 21/11/2023 at 16:21, MJI said:

 

Seen all 3A, all 2E, all 2D on ER, but WR never just one type, even all 2B sets had the odd 2A.

 

Currently keeps Laserglaze going.

MK2e were very very rare on the Eastern as they couldn't be powered by Deltics or 47401-20.

 

[stovepipe]

1 hour ago, 45125 said:

MK2e were very very rare on the Eastern as they couldn't be powered by Deltics or 47401-20.

 

 

A fact lost on the operators of a couple of railtours I've been on :)

 

They were of course common on the Great Eastern part of the Eastern Region in later years.

Edited November 22, 2023 by stovepipe

[MJI]

3 hours ago, 45125 said:

MK2e were very very rare on the Eastern as they couldn't be powered by Deltics or 47401-20.

 

I know hence all 2d

 

MR tended to be more of one type as well, but not WR

[45125]

2 hours ago, stovepipe said:

 

A fact lost on the operators of a couple of railtours I've been on :)

 

They were of course common on the Great Eastern part of the Eastern Region in later years.

They started becoming common after privatisation when the Mk2 M/A were replaced by the MK4 M/A.

[stovepipe]

41 minutes ago, 45125 said:

They started becoming common after privatisation when the Mk2 M/A were replaced by the MK4 M/A.

 

Plenty of Mk2e at London Liverpool Street in 1981 according to my notes.

[billywhizz]

On 21/11/2023 at 00:18, Melton Works said:

It would be really nice to fill in the new missing link.... a nicely tooled MK2D. The Airfix tooling has been going round for donkeys years!

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Accurascale announced they are going to do MK2D’s they would be the perfect choice to go with the Deltics. Some nice ScotRail liveried 2D’s would be great as well (hint, hint😜) 

[GordonC]

1 hour ago, billywhizz said:

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Accurascale announced they are going to do MK2D’s they would be the perfect choice to go with the Deltics. Some nice ScotRail liveried 2D’s would be great as well (hint, hint😜) 

 

thats 1980s ScotRail Mk2Ds I take it? ... 😉

[billywhizz]

12 minutes ago, GordonC said:

 

thats 1980s ScotRail Mk2Ds I take it? ... 😉

Oh yes!! (Sorry forgot about the later “Saltaire” livery!)

[matchmaker]

On 23/11/2023 at 10:14, GordonC said:

 

thats 1980s ScotRail Mk2Ds I take it? ... 😉

I could do with some of these!

[Flood]

I don't really want to post about air-cons on a Mk2B thread but I will just make this comment.

 

Folks shouldn't try to separate the three air-con batches of Mk2. The Mk2D TSOs had the toilets moved to regain 64 seats in the Mk2E stock, the Mk2E stock only had Stones air-con equipment to save money (they used those which would have retro fitted the Mk2C stock). Each Mk2 version was an upgrade from the previous version with the Mk2F being the best version (apart from some of the interior coverings).

 

The Bachmann Mk2F was requested by the design staff to be given the option as a Mk2E version but was rejected on cost. A ridiculously short-sighted decision but those who know me also know of my personal experience with Bachmann management which is less than agreeable.

(they're f@@@ing useless).

 

Therefore Accurascale should make an air-con Mk2 which can be made as a Mk2D, Mk2E or Mk2F from the outset. There will be long term cost savings as long as it is the plan from the start, all variation requests by the modelling public are met and and a vast number of livery variations are possible.

Edited November 25, 2023 by Flood

[Covkid]

13 minutes ago, Flood said:

I don't really want to post about air-cons on a Mk2B thread but I will just make this comment.

 

Folks shouldn't try to separate the three air-con batches of Mk2. The Mk2D TSOs had the toilets moved to regain 64 seats in the Mk2E stock, the Mk2E stock only had Stones air-con equipment to save money (they used those which would have retro fitted the Mk2C stock). Each Mk2 version was an upgrade from the previous version with the Mk2F being the best version (apart from some the interior coverings).

 

The Bachmann Mk2F was requested by the design staff to be given the option as a Mk2E version but was rejected on cost. A ridiculously short-sighted decision but those who know me also know of my personal experience with Bachmann management which is less than agreeable.

(they're f@@@ing useless).

 

Therefore Accurascale should make an air-con Mk2 which can be made as a Mk2D, Mk2E or Mk2F from the outset. There will be long term cost savings as long as it is the plan from the start, all variation requests by the modelling public are met and and a vast number of livery variations are possible.

 

Interesting stuff "Flood" thanks.

 

I guess that with the Mk2C CAD Accurascale have the basic Mk2DEF bodyshell with the wide swing doors. I imagine the placement of windows, toilet windows and the louvres is a simple CAD matter, as are the underframe A/c units.  I guess it is purely the economics and batch runs.   

[Flood]

Ah yes batch runs, I forgot about adding my thoughts on those.

 

An "average" 1970s air-con rake has approximately 10 coaches. One is a Mk1 buffet and one is a Mk1 BG, that leaves eight coaches. Let's say two full firsts, one brake variation and the other five as open seconds. So if batch production was envisaged, Accurascale tend to go for pre-ordering which is sensible, for every 25 models produced I would recommend the following quantities:

 

Five open firsts

Two corridor firsts

One corridor brake first

Two open brake seconds

Fifteen open seconds

 

Edit. After the 1970s there was less of a need for first class coaches but the body shells were still used in the 64xx SO stock and, in the 1990s, the 62xx and 68xx TSO stock.

 

 

 

Edited January 9 by Flood

[MJI]

And save having to soend 20 quid per vehicle on Shawplan bits and lots of work modifying.

[westie7]

4 hours ago, Flood said:

I don't really want to post about air-cons on a Mk2B thread but I will just make this comment.

 

Folks shouldn't try to separate the three air-con batches of Mk2. The Mk2D TSOs had the toilets moved to regain 64 seats in the Mk2E stock, the Mk2E stock only had Stones air-con equipment to save money (they used those which would have retro fitted the Mk2C stock). Each Mk2 version was an upgrade from the previous version with the Mk2F being the best version (apart from some of the interior coverings).

 

The Bachmann Mk2F was requested by the design staff to be given the option as a Mk2E version but was rejected on cost. A ridiculously short-sighted decision but those who know me also know of my personal experience with Bachmann management which is less than agreeable.

(they're f@@@ing useless).

 

Therefore Accurascale should make an air-con Mk2 which can be made as a Mk2D, Mk2E or Mk2F from the outset. There will be long term cost savings as long as it is the plan from the start, all variation requests by the modelling public are met and and a vast number of livery variations are possible.

 

I would interject here, mentioning a matrix guide to where, toilets, fans, roof vents etc are. But this isn't a 2D thread :D

 

Mark 

[adb968008]

Apparently the 2bs are on the horizon, ive seen these coaches at several shows and keep saying the same thing, were on the cusp of a coach revolution…

look at the end detail, inc eth jumpers, end steps etc..

The glazing is probably the best coach flush glazing Ive seen, theres a lot of “just look ats” on these..but just look down the side of the coach at that glazing…

 

i delibrately picked this coach to highlight the bent jumper wire and missing buffer, because it highlights there is jumper wires and shows the under detail… theres a lot going on, on these coaches… separate hand rails, wiring, printing of the corridor fold hinges etc

Edited November 25, 2023 by adb968008

[Flood]

5 hours ago, westie7 said:

 

I would interject here, mentioning a matrix guide to where, toilets, fans, roof vents etc are. But this isn't a 2D thread :D

 

Mark 

 

[MJI]

14 hours ago, Flood said:

 

Aghhhhhhhhh

 

Luckily pre paint so w5852 will be w5854 and another will become w5852

[robertcwp]

Not all Mark 2 air-braked trains were 10 or more carriages in the 1970s. There are plenty of examples of shorter 8 or 9 car sets, such as some Midland Main Line services and the 'Deltic and 8' sets. Neither of those had a BG. On the WR, there were 9-car sets, some without a BG, on West of England services. There were also a few portioned workings, such as Hull portions and Penzance portions of London trains.

 

The location and working for this image from 1975 are unidentified but the set looks like one of the 9-car Cornish Riviera/Golden Hind sets:

 

45012_5-2-75 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

Edited November 26, 2023 by robertcwp
Typo.

[robertcwp]

A couple of mid-1790s WR formations:

 

I suspect this train should have an RMB but it is missing. Formation is TSO 2a, FK 2a, BSO 2c, TSO 2a, TSO 2b, TSO 2b.

1049_Taplow_6-1-76 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

This rather longer set has at least one 2a towards the rear but after the BSO 2c at the front, the next five Mark 2 carriages are all 2b:

1029_Waltham_1Z55_1974 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[MJI]

They were still similar in 50 era.

[Flood]

3 hours ago, robertcwp said:

Not all Mark 2 air-braked trains were 10 or more carriages in the 1970s. 45012_5-2-75 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

Did I not say "An "average" air-con rake had approximately 10 coaches"?

[robertcwp]

Some more Mark 2 air-braked variety from the 1970s:

 

This working is unidentified and is probably a portion of a longer train. 2xTSO 2c, TSO 2a, BFK 2a:

 

47_1C94_SEP-74 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

This was at the time part of the Saturday working of the 'Master Cutler' set. Nine carriages - the rear is indistinct but the leading two are Mark 2b and 2c firsts and carriages five and six are Mark 2c TSOs. Per the carriage workings, the formation was FK, FO, RB, RMB, 4 TSO, BSO but it is evident from the photo that the two TSO added at the north end on Fridays and Saturdays are outside the brake. The Monday to Thursday formation had an additional FO, making an 8-car set including two catering cars:

47377_Derby_31-8-74_m by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

11 in the formation for this Cheltenham Spa-Paddington service in 1973, formed FK 2b, FK 2a, FO (Mark 1, Diag 72), RB, BFK, 5 TSO (two 2b, three 2a) BG:

1949_WhiteWaltham_0805-Chelt-Pad_31-1-73 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

This set in 1970 has been strengthened to 13 carriages and is a mix of Mark 2a and 2b, with Mark 1 BG, RB and FO:

D1927_Denchworth_1970 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

This is the Manchester Victoria portion of a Liverpool/Manchester-Glasgow service in the early 1970s. The Liverpool portion comprising BFK, 3 TSO, would have been added to the front at Preston. The whole set returned south as a Glasgow-Euston service. This portion comprises Mark 2c stock with a Mark 1 RKB and BG, formed 3 TSO, RKB, FO, 2 FK, BG:

428_Salford by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

A 'Deltic and Eight' comprising BFK 2a, 2 FO, RU, RMB, 3 TSO 2a:

55_1A21 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

And, for a bit of variety, a 'textbook' 10-car WR air-con Mark 2e set:

1937_WhiteWaltham_0807-WSM-Pad_31-1-73 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

And, remaining with the air-con stock, a Deltic and Eight:

55012_Darlington_1700-Newc-KX_c1974 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by robertcwp
Typo