34theletterbetweenB&D Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 18 hours ago, adb968008 said: ...this feels a little underwhelming for a brand new tooled model of a very popular prototype… Is anyone excited by a new Black 5 ? Definitely so! All previous versions have been significantly lacking in the vital matter of being an overall convincing model. This new introduction 'gets it' sufficiently well to be worth purchasing and going to work on it, for an ordinary filthy LMR workhorse. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MikeParkin65 Posted April 30 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 30 (edited) 1 hour ago, spamcan61 said: Despite the fact I'm not a member of the Sam's Trains fan club (or vehemently opposed to his output) I watched that second video all the way through and agree it was a pretty fair, non melodramatic assessment. Dare I say Sam is getting a little older and a little wiser? He's a top rate presenter and enthusiastic about the manufacture of model locomotives. Not at the moment a classic modeller but nothing wrong with that and he makes a useful contribution with his reviews. Edited April 30 by MikeParkin65 Replaced the slightly lofty 'he serves a useful purpose' with 'he makes a useful contribution' which was what I meant to say but the phone rang and I rushed to finish before answering! 5 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maico Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 (edited) 21 hours ago, Phil Parker said: In HM mag's defence, they are reviewing it for the people they see as their readers (the people who buy the mag), not a group (who probably don't buy any mag) desperate for a good slagging off of any model. Despite reservations on here, there will be people who are perfectly happy with the model - Glad to hear it's all cucumber sandwiches and lashings of ginger beer in the Hornby universe... Edited April 30 by maico 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free At Last Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 (edited) 1 hour ago, maico said: Glad to hear it's all cucumber sandwiches and lashings of ginger beer in the Hornby universe... A BBC presenter got the sack for playing this. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-27360884 Edited April 30 by Free At Last 1 1 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Covkid Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 2 hours ago, Free At Last said: A BBC presenter got the sack for playing this. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-27360884 Trying and failing to airbrush history - when it suits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 9 hours ago, maico said: Glad to hear it's all cucumber sandwiches and lashings of ginger beer in the Hornby universe... However Hornby Magazine is nothing to do with Hornby.... It's published by Key Publishing and they sell as much Bachmann, Dapol, Cavalex and Accurascale as they do Hornby. https://shop.keypublishing.com/collections/kmw-limited-editions I find the reviews and videos to be pretty good, with less of the bias that comes with some of the other reviewers. When they show a video of a locomotive or train they tend to be running it on a proper layout so you can see them running. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 On 29/04/2024 at 16:54, adb968008 said: Just an observation… its been 13 days, 16 pages since last time we saw a picture from a purchaser of this model (not a youtube review). Even then its only 2 confirmed sightings, and both are on page 28. The thread has had 98k views. Compare to the 2MT which turned up on page 25 of its thread, and had 20 different purchasers images over the next 16 pages, which has had over 125k views. This feels a little underwhelming for a brand new tooled model of a very popular prototype… Is anyone excited by a new Black 5 ? Yes. But the ones released aren't the ones I want. Eventually I'll probably pick up a few of them. But many of us don't rush out and buy things the day they come out. Some of us need to budget things depending on time of year. Some it might be Christmas, others summer holidays, season tickets, festivals, etc. Jason 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjcm Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 (edited) 10 hours ago, Steamport Southport said: However Hornby Magazine is nothing to do with Hornby.... It's published by Key Publishing and they sell as much Bachmann, Dapol, Cavalex and Accurascale as they do Hornby. https://shop.keypublishing.com/collections/kmw-limited-editions I find the reviews and videos to be pretty good, with less of the bias that comes with some of the other reviewers. When they show a video of a locomotive or train they tend to be running it on a proper layout so you can see them running. Jason Wouldn't they need permission to use the Hornby name? I think its very unlikely that it would be granted if they are expecting any sort of critical reviews, especially as they seem to have close links to Hornby whether they own them or not Edited May 1 by Sjcm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 12 minutes ago, Sjcm said: Wouldn't they need permission to use the Hornby name? I think its very unlikely that it would be granted if they are expecting any sort of critical reviews, especially as they seem to have close links to Hornby whether they own them or not I think they could just have permission, don't you! And yes, it's without prejudice. You'll note they haven't reviewed the Beatles vans, for example! 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjcm Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 well......companies are fiercely protective of their trade names, so somehow I don't think Hornby went "of course, take our name for XXX pounds. We're not worried that people will assume you are part of Hornby and if you want to print "Hornby's new black5 is a bit of a dog" on the cover, got for it!" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold franciswilliamwebb Posted May 1 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 1 33 minutes ago, 'CHARD said: You'll note they haven't reviewed the Beatles vans, for example! I know! I don't know whether to buy them or not! 😇 1 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 1 hour ago, Sjcm said: Wouldn't they need permission to use the Hornby name? I think its very unlikely that it would be granted if they are expecting any sort of critical reviews, especially as they seem to have close links to Hornby whether they own them or not They've got permission though and for Airfix. They also print their catalogues. The name is the only thing they really have in common. There is very little Airfix coverage in the Airfix magazine. Out of the four or five builds per month you'll get one Airfix maximum. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjcm Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 I still don't think any company lets their trademark be used unless they have some control or caveats over what is associated with it. It would be frankly...daft. I imagine the written document of the licensing deal between the 2 companies is very long and detailed, so where they have some leeway or editorial freedom to criticise, permission to trash a bad model is not included Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
On30runner Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 (edited) On 29/04/2024 at 16:26, AY Mod said: It's there as an illustration how bloody angry your ill-informed tripe made me feel - you probably don't even read any reviews I write so your '60 years of experience' counts for absolutely nothing in that regard. What you are basically saying is my opinion can be bought. News for you - it isn't. It would be best if you apologised to me but you would think that's beneath you - it's not your M.O. I'm sick of it and I will not sit back and let you criticise me (as I am included in your poorly aimed insult) without pulling you up on it. You don't like my robust response but that's often the case with bullies; they don't like being called out on their intentionally malicious comments. It amazes me that you haven't just booted this guy. Seems to delight in winding people up. Edited May 1 by On30runner 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 11 minutes ago, Sjcm said: I still don't think any company lets their trademark be used unless they have some control or caveats over what is associated with it. It would be frankly...daft. I imagine the written document of the licensing deal between the 2 companies is very long and detailed, so where they have some leeway or editorial freedom to criticise, permission to trash a bad model is not included Which would be illegal. Is them using the Hornby name any different to having sponsored sections on a forum? I remember when I was into gaming and there was a magazine called SEGA magazine that would often give games made by SEGA poor reviews. Jason 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjcm Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said: Which would be illegal. Is them using the Hornby name any different to having sponsored sections on a forum? I remember when I was into gaming and there was a magazine called SEGA magazine that would often give games made by SEGA poor reviews. Jason Having a sponsored section is a bit different from having paid control of a company's name and intellectual property. If you think they are totally free to do what they like then fine, but a company who is not adverse to entering into wars with suppliers or announcing models to out-manouvre other manufacturers to protect their interests being totally unconcerned about what appears with their name above it? I think that's naive personally. Edited May 1 by Sjcm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 13 minutes ago, Sjcm said: Having a sponsored section is a bit different from having paid control of a company's name and intellectual property. If you think they are totally free to do what they like then fine, but a company who is not adverse to entering into wars with suppliers or announcing models to out-manouvre other manufacturers to protect their interests being totally unconcerned about what appears with their name above it? I think that's naive personally. Who said anything about control of anything? But I will say you just seem to want to kick Hornby for some bizarre reason. Why do some take everything so personally? And I doubt anyone who really knows me would ever contemplate the idea that I'm in anyway naive. Far from it. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjcm Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 I don't think I am kicking them personally. I think Bachmann/Dapol/whoever would do exactly the same when it comes to control of their name. I'm sure whatever is in the licensing agreement doesn't have 50 pages on what is acceptable copy to print in the magazine, but I bet there is a clause along the lines of "Hornby reserve the right to withdraw licensing of the name if they consider it's usage to be detrimental/ harmful to the companies reputation" Does the same job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium cctransuk Posted May 1 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 1 Just now, Sjcm said: I don't think I am kicking them personally. I think Bachmann/Dapol/whoever would do exactly the same when it comes to control of their name. I'm sure whatever is in the licensing agreement doesn't have 50 pages on what is acceptable copy to print in the magazine, but I bet there is a clause along the lines of "Hornby reserve the right to withdraw licensing of the name if they consider it's usage to be detrimental/ harmful to the companies reputation" Does the same job. Since we are never going to know what is, and what is not in the licencing agreement, arguing one speculation against another is a waste of everyone's time! CJI. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 2 hours ago, 'CHARD said: You'll note they haven't reviewed the Beatles vans, for example! Are they faithful to the prototype ? I think we should be told.😋 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted May 1 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 1 2 hours ago, franciswilliamwebb said: I know! I don't know whether to buy them or not! 😇 I need the guide on how to unbox them . Im lost 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 I just love topic drift... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PeterStiles Posted May 1 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 1 2 hours ago, franciswilliamwebb said: I don't know whether to buy them or not! 😇 Buy them, you'll never regret it... 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold franciswilliamwebb Posted May 1 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 1 2 hours ago, Peter Kazmierczak said: I just love topic drift... It's a Long and Winding Road 😉 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 1 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 1 6 hours ago, Sjcm said: well......companies are fiercely protective of their trade names, so somehow I don't think Hornby went "of course, take our name for XXX pounds. We're not worried that people will assume you are part of Hornby and if you want to print "Hornby's new black5 is a bit of a dog" on the cover, got for it!" The mag has permission to use the Hornby name and that has been public knowledge for a good while. Whether or not they pay to use it would be a commercial matter between the two organisations so we don;t know the answer to that and never will. But the big thing for Hornby is that the front page of the magazine is putting their name in front of tens of thousands of people who might otherwise think the company no longer exists or that it had gone the way of umpteen other British brands. I suspect that far more people visit places like WHS, or other retailers selling magazines etc, than ever visit model railway retailers' premises so it's good advertising that creates brand awareness.. 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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