Hornby cancel Titfield Thunderbolt

[The Stationmaster]

1 minute ago, HExpressD said:

Maybe, but again zooming out from RM Web for a moment the average model railway customer may never heard of Rapido, the hoo-haa about the Titfield Thunderbolt and they may not keep much of an eye on the modelling press. There will be a significant number of people that go to Hornby as it's the name that they know and may occasionally check Hattons/RoS. Boldly, and perhaps against the grain I'd predict that this will be a good move for Hornby once all the pitchforks have been put down. 

Hmm - are they going to move Hattons to Tier 1 and will RoS start dealing with them again?  The only way they are likely to sell it is by the direct route and possibly via retailers but what are your chances of actually getting one if you order it from a retailer?

[wombatofludham]

Except the Rapido product is licenced by Studio Canal who have big theatrical owners, who will know a bit about marketing, and no doubt will be part of a number of Titfield at 70 related releases aimed at film buffs.  The grockles may never have heard of Rapido but they will no doubt have heard of the film, see the publicity artwork and be interested in the Titfield themed stuff.

This will be a very niche model aimed at specific model enthusiasts or collectors, not the "only model train is a Hornby", "Sam's Trains" market - and the majority of those to whom this will appeal will probably be aware of the alternative and be more interested in it.

[Neil]

There's no doubt that Hornby have made a complete arse of themselves over this. They've also managed a series of spectacular own goals in the way they have (reportedly) treated their dealer network. However rather than wishing the sky to fall in on Hornby I hope that someone can take them by the scruff of the neck and restore some professionalism and decency to the organisation. Of their more recent offerings I have a Q6, a pair of K1s, a Peckett and a 48DS and with the exception of the motor in the Q6 (a common problem) they are lovely models which we would be all the more poorer for if they hadn't been produced. At the moment they appear to embody the Del Boy, Arfur Daley, Flash Harry school of business practice, but it doesn't have to be this way.

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, Nile said:

Is that plan B ?

 

1 hour ago, HonestTom said:

IMO, this is what they should have done from the start. That being said, I already have the coaches, so I'll probably just buy the Rapido engine.

I thought this was plan A, there was plenty of mumbling about it as a follow up to Rocket.

Plan B was TT at which point the cat was amongst the pigeons.

Plan C is retrench to plan A, after being mauled by SC lawyers over Plan B.

 

Edited July 5, 2022 by melmerby

[Zunnan]

3 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

Seemingly it was 'semantics'. 🤨

 

I think we could all smell some antics going on for sure; and not just over Titgate!

 

I'm not sure their dealer network, a good number of dumped customers who are gleefully told 'you can order it direct from us instead' or other IP holders who license to Hornby are very appreciative right now given the contempt for copyright the big H has very publically shown. Not to mention the repeated market flooding of competing models with high quantities of their own brand ex-lima specials to spoil the waters. Or is that all just 'semantics' to them as well?

[Keith Addenbrooke]

24 minutes ago, melmerby said:

 

I thought this was plan A, there was plenty of mumbling about it as a follow up to Rocket.

Plan B was TT at which point the cat was amongst the pigeons.

Plan C is retrench to plan A, after being mauled by SC lawyers over Plan B.

 

Now I’m confused - unless TT doesn’t mean TT (as in 1:120 scale)?  Am I in the wrong thread?

[41516]

TT = Titfield Thunderbolt

[micklner]

Just had a email from Hornby,  its now listed as :-

 

L&MR, Centenary 1930 ‘Lion’ Train Pack
– Era 1

 

£239.99

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/products/lmr-centenary-1930-lion-train-pack-era-1-r30232?xnpe_tifc=h.z8hunjh.zlxFh.xFh.hMpsafeWaeiWhFWAtuPsau8sEynJx.41a9Q3EdiZakncbdiArFblh.Lsh.sN4DYphfnlxDnT&utm_source=bloomreach&utm_campaign=Hornby- L%26MR lion &utm_medium=email

 

 

L&MR, Centenary 1930 Carriage and ‘Despatch’ Coach Pack – Era 1

 

£89.99

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/products/lmr-centenary-1930-carriage-and-despatch-coach-pack-era-1-r40371?xnpe_tifc=h.z8hunjh.zlxFh.xFh.hMpsafeWaeiWhFWAtuPsau8sEynJx.41a9Q3EdiZakncbdiArFblh.Lsh.sN4DYphfnlxDnT&utm_source=bloomreach&utm_campaign=Hornby- L%26MR lion &utm_medium=email

 

One Covered Coach and Two wagon type that look the Rocket set in a different colour scheme ?

Edited July 5, 2022 by micklner

[Keith Addenbrooke]

29 minutes ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

Now I’m confused - unless TT doesn’t mean TT (as in 1:120 scale)?  Am I in the wrong thread?

 

27 minutes ago, 41516 said:

TT = Titfield Thunderbolt

Thank you.  A while back Hornby were said to be thinking / wondering about UK TT (as in 3mm or 1:120, which Arnold do), but nothing has so far come of it - so ‘cat amongst the pigeons’ just didn’t fit.  
 

I thought ‘Titgate’ was the abbreviation of choice in this thread, which I had worked out - thankfully - hence my confusion.  

Glad I’ve not missed anything about TT:120, but sad to learn from this thread and others that this is where Hornby is at - it’s some years since I purchased any new red boxes, but for many years (1992 to 2010) they were all I would buy.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Keith Addenbrooke
Clarification

[PaulRhB]

2 hours ago, frobisher said:

 

They do if you read it all.

They apologise for the inconvenience of orders at the end but not to the rights holder. 

[RichardT]

2 minutes ago, micklner said:

L&MR, Centenary 1930 ‘Lion’ Train Pack
– Era 1

Can’t abide the Era system, but even I know that 1930 isn’t Era 1. And 1930 is all that this model of Lion + train can accurately represent.

 

Richard T

[Martin_R]

5 hours ago, John M Upton said:

Someone is getting fired....

More likely promoted these days….

[Jonboy]

5 hours ago, JohnR said:

I wonder what the cost of the legal side was, and whether it would be reported in the next set of accounts? I would imagine it would also include the cost of SC's lawyers. 

Had experience of a similar situation a few years back, with a far larger company than Studio Canal involved as the opposition, and the legals were less than £5k for both their and our legal costs.

 

(It admittedly helped that their side presented their initial claim with all their evidence, and straightforward resolution requirements to clear it all up in the first communication).

Edited July 5, 2022 by Jonboy

[frobisher]

1 hour ago, PaulRhB said:

They apologise for the inconvenience of orders at the end but not to the rights holder. 

 

Nope - it's a general apology for the inconvenience caused.  That you've read it as an apology to those who've ordered the products means Hornby has managed a little bit of obfuscation 

 

The statement clearly satisfies the following criteria;

• Hornby recognises that there have been concerns about a product announcement it has previously made.
• Hornby recognises that it hasn't got the rights for SC's IP from "The Titfield Thunderbolt".
• Hornby recognises that SC retains the title rights to "The Titfield Thunderbolt" and "The Lady with the Lamp"
• Hornby is not going to release products that would infringe the rights recognised above.
• Hornby apologises for the inconvenience they have caused. 

Classic compliance with a C&D request.

Edited July 5, 2022 by frobisher
typo...

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

 

I thought this was plan A, there was plenty of mumbling about it as a follow up to Rocket.

Plan B was TT at which point the cat was amongst the pigeons.

Plan C is retrench to plan A, after being mauled by SC lawyers over Plan B.

 

I thought they'd scrubbed TT a couple of years back.   No sorry - reset, that was TT3 or whatever they were going to call it.   We're now on what presumably counts as TT1 (or should that be TT4?) although everybody calls it TT.  No wonder people are confused but acronyms have long had that problem. 🤪

[PaulRhB]

33 minutes ago, frobisher said:

Classic compliance with a S&D request.

S&D ? 😆 

 

I’m aware of the criteria and also aware that by separating it like they have is a way of saying something else in their eyes. 
 

Anyway that’s their problem and as long as it satisfies Studiocanal that’s ultimately all that matters. 

[frobisher]

1 minute ago, PaulRhB said:

S&D ? 😆 

Ooopsie

[Harlequin]

Amazingly there's a comment under the press release on the Hornby website saying that it's a shame these products have been cancelled and wondering why Studio Canal are being so nasty...

 

Part of me wonders, "What planet have you been living on for the past 6 months?" but then I realise that it shows there's a whole different constituency that don't look any further than Hornby for all their railway modelling needs - which is a bit sad, really!

 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Harlequin

[toby_tl10]

2 hours ago, HExpressD said:

Maybe, but again zooming out from RM Web for a moment the average model railway customer may never heard of Rapido, the hoo-haa about the Titfield Thunderbolt and they may not keep much of an eye on the modelling press. There will be a significant number of people that go to Hornby as it's the name that they know and may occasionally check Hattons/RoS. Boldly, and perhaps against the grain I'd predict that this will be a good move for Hornby once all the pitchforks have been put down. 

Rails of Sheffield currently doesn't stock Hornby at all. Hattons stocks a selection of Hornby leftovers, which judging by the reactions, could mean they're getting a full herd of Lions!

 

On the other hand, Rapido is gradually building up their retail network. The only people who are buying the Hornby Lion because they never heard of Rapido are most likely people who only go to the Hornby website and never visit their local/online retailers.

[Martin_R]

Sadly everything seems to be going T-Up for Hornby at the moment😳

[Bucoops]

I think today will forever be known as Hornby popcorn day.

 

Anyone wanna buy the rights to merch?

[adb968008]

4 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Hmm - are they going to move Hattons to Tier 1 and will RoS start dealing with them again?  The only way they are likely to sell it is by the direct route and possibly via retailers but what are your chances of actually getting one if you order it from a retailer?

Chances of getting a Rapido one from a Rapido stockist is probably pretty good.

Hornby pressing ahead on this seems like sour grapes, I cant see demand for 2 of these in the market place, even if its a “Hornby one”…its too niche, its not Rocket, its not mainstream and most  enthusiasts under 50 probably have never seen it, those in that niche will know of the Rapido one already, and those wanting Titfield have a choice already made.

 

Similarly if the paintjob is like the class 91’s, or if it comes with geographical errors like the Azuma, of Brown/Cream like the GWR Terrier its going to get found out.

 

Still its there shareholders’ money, their choice and adds to the pile of pointless duplication that will someday be their epitaph.

 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2022 by adb968008

[AY Mod]

27 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

I think today will forever be known as Hornby popcorn day

 

Even with stiff competition this evening.

[SHMD]

9 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Even with stiff competition this evening.

 

what h've I missed, what have I missed...

 

 

Kev.

Edited July 5, 2022 by SHMD

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, SHMD said:

 

what h've I missed, what have I missed...

 

 

Kev.

When the Chancellor resigns, you know some tough stuff is coming to our finances.

 

Lion might turn out to be a Cat in the big scheme of things.

Edited July 5, 2022 by adb968008