EFE Rail - Winter 2023 Announcements inc. Southern 'Booster'

[Oldddudders]

14 minutes ago, Southernman46 said:

It was electrified in 1939 along with the rest of the Maidstone & Gillingham scheme with substations at Tweed Hill, Fawkham Junction, Meopham & Lower Bush. The KC mainline service were still steam operated over this section until 1961.

 

Tweed Hill substation was strafed during WW2 and the bullet holes were still present in the pallisade fencing around the substation on my last visit.

The elderly wooden troughing on the feeders was prone to self-combusting when I was ASM there in 1975. We had several bank fires round Sole Street that clearly had started with the troughing rather than the grass around it. 

[Michael Hodgson]

45 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

The elderly wooden troughing on the feeders was prone to self-combusting when I was ASM there in 1975. We had several bank fires round Sole Street that clearly had started with the troughing rather than the grass around it. 

Not started by sparks from passing trains ?

[Oldddudders]

12 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Not started by sparks from passing trains ?

No, definitely not. The troughing itself was scorched in places, with little evidence of burnt grass surrounding it, and it was well up the bank from the track. And no P&C nearby to cause splashing. 

[Wickham Green too]

2 hours ago, number6 said:

Must have meant that installing the overhead trolley wire in situations like Chichester, Newhaven, Three Bridges, Norwood Yard etc. was more trouble [or cost] than it was worth. 

Though Chichester, - obviously - Three Bridges, Norwood, New Cross Gate and Horsham got expensive electrified sidings ( it's not clear from the 'Booster' book whether they were all third rail or some were trolley wire ) and sections at Brighton and Balcombe DID get the overhead. 

[spamcan61]

14 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Though Chichester, - obviously - Three Bridges, Norwood, New Cross Gate and Horsham got expensive electrified sidings ( it's not clear from the 'Booster' book whether they were all third rail or some were trolley wire ) and sections at Brighton and Balcombe DID get the overhead. 

Here's a list from the thread I linked to earlier:-

 

According to a letter from David Monk-Steel in August 2016 HM the following had ''significant' amounts of OHLE:-

 

 

 

 Hither Green, Tonbridge, Paddock Wood, Ashford, Dover, Bricklayers Arms, Angerstein Wharf, Plumstead, Hoo Junction, Rochester, Gillingham, Sittingbourne, Faversham, Snowdon colliery, Shepherdswell, betteshanger colliery.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/159165-idle-query-has-anybody-ever-seen-a-southern-region-layout-with-ohle-in-the-goods-yard/?do=findComment&comment=4164793

[phil-b259]

21 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

Here's a list from the thread I linked to earlier:-

 

According to a letter from David Monk-Steel in August 2016 HM the following had ''significant' amounts of OHLE:-

 

 

 

 Hither Green, Tonbridge, Paddock Wood, Ashford, Dover, Bricklayers Arms, Angerstein Wharf, Plumstead, Hoo Junction, Rochester, Gillingham, Sittingbourne, Faversham, Snowdon colliery, Shepherdswell, betteshanger colliery.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/159165-idle-query-has-anybody-ever-seen-a-southern-region-layout-with-ohle-in-the-goods-yard/?do=findComment&comment=4164793

 

Yes but thats rather later than when the Southern Railway locomotives were built!

 

Ashford example on got electrified almost 20 years after the first Southern loco was built and moreover was done with the class 71 in mind.

 

What we really want is a list of places that got overhead wire before the 1950s! - i.e. what the Southern Railway put in place before nationalisation. So far we have only come up with Brighton, Balcombe and possibly Norwood - none of which are in Kent.

 

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by phil-b259

[number6]

Balcombe was probably the quietest yard they could install a trolley wire for testing surely?! I’ve got a working timetable showing how intensively these locos were used: almost constantly for six days a week both freight and boat trains. Naffing around on a pick up goods wasn’t what they were doing. 
 

Although had these locos had been adopted more widely - Hastings line in particular - we could have seen trolley wires at Robertsbridge, Mountfield etc. 
 

Curious to know where the wire was at Brighton.

[No Decorum]

10 hours ago, Halvarras said:

 

D0280 'Falcon' never left Loughborough in lime green with small yellow panels either but we got a model of that nonetheless. Just sayin'.........😜!

 

I would argue that we have Heljan to thank for all the rarities we have (and are about to have) now, including the Boosters. Falcon started it all, coming out as a smallish limited edition. The demand turned out to be so great that “limited” edition after “limited” edition appeared with small changes to each one to pretend that each edition was unique. If I remember correctly, the second run differed from the first only by the inclusion of an etched nameplate. Having got the first, I confess that I was a little annoyed at the proliferation of models but decided that annoyance wasn’t healthy and settled down to amusement as Heljan twisted and turned to find something different for each production run. If the excitement on this thread is any guide, I should think more production runs of the Boosters will follow.

 

I’m delighted by these but it makes the gap between Classes 80 and 85 even odder. I’d suggest that the 70 don’t need a motorised pantograph but for the early AC electrics … now who has produced aomething with a motorised panto before? Someone not unconnected with EFE Rail perhaps?

[Dunsignalling]

On 01/11/2023 at 20:28, cctransuk said:

 

Perhaps - more to the point - we should be asking why non-EFE models are significantly more expensive.

 

I cannot be the only one who has been amazed at the meteoric rise in model prices in recent times.

 

CJI.

Presumably because anything in a blue Bachmann box is made in the parent company's factory and the price therefore includes a greater contribution to group revenues.

 

The EFE brand brings together items from a number of makers and one or more (?) previous commissioners who presumably get the benefit of Bachmann's wider distribution network. 

 

It appears (at least to me) to be a device for Bachmann UK to maintain turnover independently when there isn't enough coming from their main source and, as such, both costs and the required margins will differ.

 

You are certainly not the only one so amazed. We seem to be rapidly closing in on the three hundred quid loco even without DCC sound. 

 

I'm only glad that there have been relatively few recent new ones (and none from the most expensive brands) that I have regarded as "must haves". Multiple purchases now only happen if I perceive a clear "operational need", and the only thing likely to fall into that category would be a Southern U class mogul. I've even resisted (so far) the idea of a second Accurascale Manor. The thirty quid wagons and sixty-five quid coaches will only start bothering me if/when I want a load of them! 

 

John

Edited November 3, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[Southernman46]

15 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

The elderly wooden troughing on the feeders was prone to self-combusting when I was ASM there in 1975. We had several bank fires round Sole Street that clearly had started with the troughing rather than the grass around it. 

30 year old paper=lead cables suffering internal faults that set the troughing alight - I used to write up the cable records for these feeders in bound ledgers during the early 80's for a while and it was interesting to look back and see the occasions recorded when cables had been damaged by "enemy action"

[Re6/6]

13 hours ago, number6 said:

Balcombe was probably the quietest yard they could install a trolley wire for testing surely?! I’ve got a working timetable showing how intensively these locos were used: almost constantly for six days a week both freight and boat trains. Naffing around on a pick up goods wasn’t what they were doing. 
 

Although had these locos had been adopted more widely - Hastings line in particular - we could have seen trolley wires at Robertsbridge, Mountfield etc. 
 

Curious to know where the wire was at Brighton.

 

These were the pictures that inspired our Balcombe and Ouse Valley Viaduct layout.

 

Testing at Balcombe during the war. (original photographer unknown)

 

 

 

 

Edited November 3, 2023 by Re6/6

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

We seem to be rapidly closing in on the three hundred quid loco even without DCC sound. 

 

I'm only glad that there have been relatively few recent new ones (and none from the most expensive brands) that I have regarded as "must haves".

 

......The thirty quid wagons and sixty-five quid coaches....

 

The two hundred quid loco is my upper limit - they can keep anything priced beyond that!

 

The vast majority of my coaches are upgraded Triang-Hornby and Lima Mk.1s. ExLMS stock is Airfix or Mainline RTR-based, often with Comet sides. Gresleys, Maunsells and Bulleids are Kirk kit-built. NPCCS it either upgraded RTR or Parkside kit-built.

 

Freight stock is from a plethora of sources - very little is RTR.

 

It IS possible to have authentic, well-built stock without resorting to over-priced RTR. Trouble is, far to many just want to unbox and play; and the RTR producers know and take advantage of this!

 

CJI.

[Southernman46]

14 hours ago, spamcan61 said:

Here's a list from the thread I linked to earlier:-

 

According to a letter from David Monk-Steel in August 2016 HM the following had ''significant' amounts of OHLE:-

 

 

 

 Hither Green, Tonbridge, Paddock Wood, Ashford, Dover, Bricklayers Arms, Angerstein Wharf, Plumstead, Hoo Junction, Rochester, Gillingham, Sittingbourne, Faversham, Snowdon colliery, Shepherdswell, betteshanger colliery.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/159165-idle-query-has-anybody-ever-seen-a-southern-region-layout-with-ohle-in-the-goods-yard/?do=findComment&comment=4164793

I did once have all the OHLE wiring layout drawings for these locations at work but subsequently mis-laid lost them during a office move - I still have some B&W photos taken from the tops of the lighting towers at HG in 1966 showing the Down yard with some very interesting stock below including a Class 20 arriving with a freight.

 

Can we NOT turn this this into an EFE Heljan Bachmann bashing exercise please - I want to continue luxuriating in the pleasurable feeling that someone has had the inspiration to finally do these locos AND in the many variants planned too

Edited November 3, 2023 by Southernman46

[Fair Oak Junction]

This hobby can be expensive, EVERY hobby can be expensive. It's a fact of life and isn't going to change any time soon. Debating it endlessly certainly won't change it.

 

The CC1/2 models look very high quality and are priced very reasonably, so fantastic. Let's just celebrate that and keep things positive 👍

[Oldddudders]

Each of us is entitled to our own judgement on price v value. The Hornbys are inevitably pretty niche products - largely confined to former LBSCR routes, and then only those electrified before the war. The models' provenance, with Graham Muz influence, gives confidence that authenticity is top-notch, and other EFE products I have bought are well-made by present standards. Unconnected with price, I cannot justify purchase, despite seeing all three as an early '60s trainspotter in the Redhill/Earlswood area, but I suspect there may be modellers who see a new prototype opportunity as a result of their introduction to the market. All good news. 

[Southernman46]

15 hours ago, number6 said:

Balcombe was probably the quietest yard they could install a trolley wire for testing surely?! I’ve got a working timetable showing how intensively these locos were used: almost constantly for six days a week both freight and boat trains. Naffing around on a pick up goods wasn’t what they were doing. 
 

Although had these locos had been adopted more widely - Hastings line in particular - we could have seen trolley wires at Robertsbridge, Mountfield etc. 
 

Curious to know where the wire was at Brighton.

Stating the obvious, having worked with some of the people involved with it - the OHLE on the Central was very definitely for these locos, that on the SED for the KC electrification and the Class 71's and the SWD have none cos nothing needed it - ED's being plentiful

[Right Away]

Similar to Oldddudders, I can well recall many times the “disappointment” of seeing an electric loco approaching instead of a hoped for steam engine in the late 50s and 60s.

 

I’d stand on the down platform at Haywards Heath with my parent’s Kodak TLR (only one camera per family, if you were lucky in those days) held at the waist, in a wishful attempt to grab a shot of an up working. With a fixed shutter speed of a blistering 1/60sec and the handicap of trying to frame with the reversed image in the viewfinder, moving train photos rarely resulted in success.

“Hello digital imaging, it’s 1961 and I’m waiting for you!”

 

Seriously, the decision to produce a model of such a numerically small and localised class is surprising and would have hardly borne fruit not that many years ago and it is deserved of congratulation to those involved with its development. 

Not handsome beasts by any standard, the “Hornbys” bland appearance were as much part and parcel of my younger days as EMUs, Brighton tanks,  West Countries and many more. Like some others, who strive to recreate to a degree their earlier years of railway interest, my modelling encompasses those times and to this end it is would hardly be fitting not to permit one of the, most unexpected, new models to take its place alongside an Atlantic.

 

Well done, Bachmann, EFE and Muz

Edited November 3, 2023 by Right Away
correction

[Southernman46]

OK - so I'll say it .................................

BR "DC" electric loco's - We have excellent models of the 71, 73, 76, 77, 92, even the ex-Metropolitan Metro-Vickers and now the proper 70 - there's only one Class missing now and there were 7 more of those than the 70's ......................... someone somewhere must have it on the drawing board 😁

[GreenGiraffe22]

Would be interested to know what CC1 was used for during WW2, presumably hauling war related goods about? Troop trains maybe? I expect there's a lack of photo evidence. The only info I can find online is that it was repainted, but I'm sure it did more than that during its wartime life 😅

Edited November 3, 2023 by GreenGiraffe22
Made my post more specific

[Jeremy Cumberland]

2 hours ago, Right Away said:

Not handsome beasts by any standard

They were a damned sight prettier than Gresley's Tommy, and they might even have been good enough for a prize, had the Metropolitan Railway and Metropolitan-Vickers not won the beauty competition nearly 20 years earlier.

[No Decorum]

1 hour ago, Southernman46 said:

OK - so I'll say it .................................

BR "DC" electric loco's - We have excellent models of the 71, 73, 76, 77, 92, even the ex-Metropolitan Metro-Vickers and now the proper 70 - there's only one Class missing now and there were 7 more of those than the 70's ......................... someone somewhere must have it on the drawing board 😁

Sadly, DJ had it on his drawing board but it was cancelled due to lack of interest. Perhaps that has made manufacturers reluctant to undertake it. A pity. I ordered one.

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

Would be interested to know what CC1 was used for during WW2, ...

A lot of test trains including a series of braking tests, trial running of passenger trains from Waterloo to Pompey Harbour and freight between Norwood & Chichester. To some extent passenger operation was restrained by lack of agreement over single manning.

[phil-b259]

41 minutes ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

Would be interested to know what CC1 was used for during WW2, presumably hauling war related goods about? Troop trains maybe? I expect there's a lack of photo evidence. The only info I can find online is that it was repainted, but I'm sure it did more than that during its wartime life 😅

 

One thing to remember is that with a small class (and even if the cab layout was similar to contemporary EMUs) is that the pool of drivers / motormen qualified to operate it would be small. As such it probably spent more time on regular rostered work than 'specials'

[dave75]

5 hours ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

They were a damned sight prettier than Gresley's Tommy, and they might even have been good enough for a prize,

Time for an eye test 😁 As a lner fan 

Tommy in apple green with a rake of teak coaches, classic look.

I do like the CCs but they do resemble a mobile burial casket, 

[robertcwp]

I have not had time to read the whole thread so apologies if this has been mentioned, but I don't think the blue one should have a red bufferbeam. Here is an image from my collection:

20001_Brighton_8-6-68 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr