RMweb Gold Darius43 Posted January 17 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17 52 minutes ago, jjb1970 said: From a retail perspective a lot will depend on commercial variables and business model, just the same as for manufacturers. The fact that one retailer or manufacturer is thriving or going downwards doesn't necessarily say anything about any others. Some businesses have lower costs, are more efficiently managed, understand their business better and are just better at what they do. Businesses thrive and businesses fail. Of course there are macro issues affecting business, but again the particular impact on a given business is not an immutable force of nature but is influenced by how it responds to conditions and adapts. Too many people see the plight (or achievements) or one business and assume it represents an entire segment of the economy. Or in other words: nobody knows anything. Cheers Darius 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted January 17 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17 3 minutes ago, Darius43 said: Or in other words: nobody knows anything. Cheers Darius How do you get that from a post which in effect says businesses are different, react to changes differently and some are better at what they do than others? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Darius43 Posted January 17 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17 3 minutes ago, jjb1970 said: How do you get that from a post which in effect says businesses are different, react to changes differently and some are better at what they do than others? See, even you can summarise a long-winded paragraph into a single sentence. Cheers Darius Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted January 17 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17 3 minutes ago, Darius43 said: See, even you can summarise a long-winded paragraph into a single sentence. Cheers Darius Quite, but I'm still interested to know how you can interpret it as 'nobody knows anything'. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Gilbert Posted January 17 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17 1 hour ago, NHY 581 said: From the perspective of a small, local model railway shop the run up to and post Christmas period has been really busy. The vast majority of our sales are from visits to the shop, though last few weeks has seen an increase in online orders. But, crucially, we are seeing lots of new customers, lots of youngsters with parents, customers travelling from outside of what would be considered 'our area' to visit and of course our regulars. Of those customers, the youngsters are all ages. Some benefitted from gifts of train sets at Christmas and returned afterwards to add to that initial purchase. Others came in to spend their Christmas money. Those who say the hobby is dying, as already debated here are ill informed and on a personal level, it is lovely to see the youngsters joining the hobby. We are also seeing a number of new adult modellers, some starting from scratch others returning to a childhood hobby now that family/work is settled. We also attend and support shows, large and small and generally attendence is as expected, normally confirmed in conversation with the organisers afterwards. Sometimes, custom exceeds all expectations and we are finding that exposure at these shows brings custom to the shop. The only conclusion to draw therefore, certainly as far as we are concerned, is that the hobby is good. Rob. So when our mutual friend ums and arghs about how he's doing at a particular show we need to consider things more carefully rather than buy a new train because we feel sorry for him? Just saying.... C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Parker Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 3 minutes ago, Gilbert said: So when our mutual friend ums and arghs about how he's doing at a particular show we need to consider things more carefully rather than buy a new train because we feel sorry for him? Just saying.... C Buy the train. You aren't doing it because you want a new train, it's charity work and helping the economy. Good works like this will ensure you get to heaven. My problem isn't that I have too many toy trains, it's that I am such a kind-hearted soul. There should be an award in the next New Year's honours list, I'm so good. But, obviously, I don't like to talk about it... 5 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Gilbert Posted January 17 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17 1 minute ago, Phil Parker said: Buy the train. You aren't doing it because you want a new train, it's charity work and helping the economy. Good works like this will ensure you get to heaven. My problem isn't that I have too many toy trains, it's that I am such a kind-hearted soul. There should be an award in the next New Year's honours list, I'm so good. But, obviously, I don't like to talk about it... It's charity mate.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted January 17 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17 11 minutes ago, Gilbert said: So when our mutual friend ums and arghs about how he's doing at a particular show we need to consider things more carefully rather than buy a new train because we feel sorry for him? Just saying.... C Can I just clarify whether we buy the new train for ourselves or for our friend? 😊 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 97406 Posted January 17 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17 5 minutes ago, PaulRhB said: Can I just clarify whether we buy the new train for ourselves or for our friend? 😊 Whatever the reason, it still does you good! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted January 17 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17 I do wonder if some of us fail to realise that it is our solemn duty to keep certain manufacturers and traders in business. Andi 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Gilbert Posted January 17 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17 4 minutes ago, Dagworth said: I do wonder if some of us fail to realise that it is our solemn duty to keep certain manufacturers and traders in business. Andi There are always back sliders.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium CF MRC Posted January 17 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17 (edited) The great thing about model railways is, that as a hobby, it is always changing and that to me is a very positive thing. Following recent events, analogies to previous major changes in the hobby have already been made. It is often the case where a group can’t see a way of making something work that they give up. That happened in 1995 with the demise of IMREX, which was frankly overshadowed by the emergence of the Warley show at the NEC and a change towards more finescale modelling. The Model Railway Club went through a very sticky patch thereafter because it relied too heavily on exhibition income to be viable, with massive running costs. A new group then came along and changed the way the Club worked and used its major asset, Keen House, to generate income and hence pay off a substantial loan. The loss of the Warley NEC show has a familiarity about it, but I am sure that the Warley Club will adapt and go from strength to strength. The MRC is now in a very healthy condition with increasing membership, a vibrant Young MRC & Junior section and with nearly 25 years of successful exhibitions jointly held with Warners at Ally Pally. The show promotes the Club, but it does not rely on it for running. From a personal standpoint I have no doubt that Copenhagen Fields could not have been built without the support of the Club. The layout is now in its 40th year. The team that work on it are learning from the originators and indeed it’s exhibiting is getting more and more streamlined as old methods are questioned by new sets of eyes and hands. Such layouts are a cost to the Club in many ways and need to ‘pay back’. To that end flying the flag at outside shows and also Ally Pally are key. One has to be innovative: we had the first ‘exhibition’ at Keen House following the Covid lockdowns in July 2021, showing small groups of visitors around the layout with an up-close personal ‘tour’. It was great fun, I think well received and raised revenue for the Club. For our 40th birthday celebrations we will probably do something very similar at Keen House in early December, but also have our other new London-based layouts also on display; S7 ‘Bow Junction’ & EM ‘Orchard Wharf’. Conventional exhibitions are not the only way of promoting our interests. So the hobby is changing, step up and do something to support an event you enjoy, embrace it and enjoy it! Tim Edited January 17 by CF MRC 15 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold john new Posted January 17 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17 2 hours ago, jjb1970 said: From a retail perspective a lot will depend on commercial variables and business model, just the same as for manufacturers. The fact that one retailer or manufacturer is thriving or going downwards doesn't necessarily say anything about any others. Some businesses have lower costs, are more efficiently managed, understand their business better and are just better at what they do. Businesses thrive and businesses fail. Of course there are macro issues affecting business, but again the particular impact on a given business is not an immutable force of nature but is influenced by how it responds to conditions and adapts. Too many people see the plight (or achievements) or one business and assume it represents an entire segment of the economy. Overall the numbers may be changing; however, I suspect it is like the clothing supply chain. Some biggies over my lifetime have gone (C&A and BHS), others are doing less well (New Look, John Lewis and M&S) but we all still buy clothes just from other outlets. i haven’t stopped buying new models but recently Hattons as one amongst several haven’t been my first choice, like those clothing product purchases mentioned above other suppliers (TMC, Rails and Kernow) have for whatever reason been my preferred choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Gilbert Posted January 17 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17 14 minutes ago, PaulRhB said: Can I just clarify whether we buy the new train for ourselves or for our friend? 😊 Our mutual friend would like you to consider both as a bare minimum.... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 On 15/01/2024 at 13:55, AY Mod said: Maybe you are onto something. I asked Google Bard to "Write a news story for the closure of Hattons Model Railways and Warley Model Railway Club not holding further exhibitions at the NEC." It's a long time since I had to write essays for my homework. Do the kids still have to that? Seems like AI is the way to go! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 4 hours ago, On30runner said: Errrr yes, if they are cleaners, they do. Different era as it was the 1980s when I did it. But I started when I was about thirteen and was firing them by fourteen. Spent most of the time as secondman on diesels or trying to restore things though as most locos were crewed already to begin with. You soon moved up the ranks though. You usually got an engine when the older "boys" went and did something else like go to uni, got a job that meant they couldn't always attend at daft o'clock on a Sunday morning, got a girlfriend, etc. Jason 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 14 hours ago, TEAMYAKIMA said: It seems a slightly strange comment in the context of this thread. I can only assume that you are equally not interested in going to model railway exhibitions and, if you are not interested in going to shows, that is your right, but it's not my viewpoint. 99% of exhibitions are put on by clubs. Therefore, if clubs die out, and they will if your attitude becomes more widespread, then many/most exhibitions simply won't happen. Of course there will still be a few shows, the ones sponsored by Warners or Key Publishing, but generally speaking if clubs die out so will most shows. Why is it a strange comment in the context of this thread? One of the themes of the thread is how people, especially the media, are saying that the hobby is dying, one reason being an ageing club population. If clubs do die out, and the exhibitions they put on die with them, it doesn't mean the end of the hobby because I would think that the majority of modellers are not members of clubs. The general club show is pretty much irrelevant in the state of the hobby as a whole these days. I've no doubt that the people involved would mourn the loss of their show and a night in the boozer with their pals but to the rest of us it's hardly the end of the world, is it? Things have moved on since the formation of most of the established clubs. It's here, the internet, where it all happens these days. This is where you can buy everything to fulfil your modelling needs and where you can see some of the best layouts and also where you can exchange ideas and learn from other modellers. The hobby does not need clubs or their shows in order to survive. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Ruston said: Why is it a strange comment in the context of this thread? One of the themes of the thread is how people, especially the media, are saying that the hobby is dying, one reason being an ageing club population. If clubs do die out, and the exhibitions they put on die with them, it doesn't mean the end of the hobby because I would think that the majority of modellers are not members of clubs. The general club show is pretty much irrelevant in the state of the hobby as a whole these days. I've no doubt that the people involved would mourn the loss of their show and a night in the boozer with their pals but to the rest of us it's hardly the end of the world, is it? Things have moved on since the formation of most of the established clubs. It's here, the internet, where it all happens these days. This is where you can buy everything to fulfil your modelling needs and where you can see some of the best layouts and also where you can exchange ideas and learn from other modellers. The hobby does not need clubs or their shows in order to survive. I disagree with the last bit. It's like music. Most people listen to music at home or on their device. But without live music then most of that music just wouldn't be getting made. New music would die out overnight. Slinging a few songs on YouTube or Spotify doesn't pay the bills unless you get something daft like ten million plays. So what's the point of making exhibition standard layouts if you are just showing them on YouTube? Jason Edited January 17 by Steamport Southport 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 minute ago, Steamport Southport said: I disagree with the last bit. It's like music. Most people listen to music at home or on their device. But without live music then most of that music just wouldn't be getting made. New music would die out overnight. Slinging a few songs on YouTube or Spotify doesn't pay the bills unless you get something daft like ten million plays. Jason Please explain, Jason, because I don't understand at all what you're getting at and I'm not sure if what you mean by the 'last bit' is the last bit that is visible in the quote, or if you mean the last bit of everything I typed in the post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northerngirl Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 I find it hard to believe that any layout other than making tracks is attracting enough interest online or at a show to generate profit, but it's a far easier to show off your creation on YouTube than bring it to a show. There's been magazines for decades, social media is just a new interpretation of it 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ELTEL Posted January 17 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17 I don’t think the 20 to 30 that attend our clubroom on Tuesday & Thursdays evenings would be very happy if the club closed.. I reckon about 70% of our membership are not actively involved in any modelling activities at home at all, for all sorts of reasons. I totally accept that many modellers don’t want to join a club and that’s fine. “The hobby does not need clubs or their shows in order to survive “ What a load of rubbish ! Terry 1 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Fair Oak Junction Posted January 17 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17 14 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said: So what's the point of making exhibition standard layouts if you are just showing them on YouTube? Because generally the type of modellers making high quality layouts would be whether they take it to shows or not, because that is the standard they want to model. And I would argue those layouts being on Youtube have the ability to reach a far greater audience than at shows. How many people go to shows vs how many people use YT. How would someone in other parts of the world see, and be inspired by, these layouts if they only went to shows and weren't online? I don't believe for a minute either clubs or shows are going to die out any time soon, but if they do I agree with Ruston that the hobby still wont die. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted January 17 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Northerngirl said: I find it hard to believe that any layout other than making tracks is attracting enough interest online or at a show to generate profit, but it's a far easier to show off your creation on YouTube than bring it to a show. There's been magazines for decades, social media is just a new interpretation of it I don't have space to put my layout up at home. And in the limited chances I get to assemble it at my "secret test location", then it's only there for testing, not videoing. 11 minutes ago, ELTEL said: “The hobby does not need clubs or their shows in order to survive “ What a load of rubbish ! Totally agree Terry. And if you want to go to shows to see it, then it's the clubs that arrange for that to happen. Thanks to all that have invited it so far, and to those that have invited it for the future. (And the same thanks go back to about 1980 when I first took a large layout to a show.) Edited January 17 by newbryford 2 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEAMYAKIMA Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 26 minutes ago, Ruston said: Why is it a strange comment in the context of this thread? One of the themes of the thread is how people, especially the media, are saying that the hobby is dying, one reason being an ageing club population. If clubs do die out, and the exhibitions they put on die with them, it doesn't mean the end of the hobby because I would think that the majority of modellers are not members of clubs. The general club show is pretty much irrelevant in the state of the hobby as a whole these days. I've no doubt that the people involved would mourn the loss of their show and a night in the boozer with their pals but to the rest of us it's hardly the end of the world, is it? Things have moved on since the formation of most of the established clubs. The hobby does not need clubs or their shows in order to survive. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, it's just that our opinions are the exact opposite of each other. I have never built a home layout - all my seven layouts have been exhibition layouts. I have never felt the need to operate at home and so, for me 'exhibiting my layout at a show' is my hobby. For my hobby to continue, exhibitions must continue and, consequently, clubs must continue and so I 'am interested' in clubs surviving. 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 6 minutes ago, Ruston said: Please explain, Jason, because I don't understand at all what you're getting at and I'm not sure if what you mean by the 'last bit' is the last bit that is visible in the quote, or if you mean the last bit of everything I typed in the post. This bit. 23 minutes ago, Ruston said: The hobby does not need clubs or their shows in order to survive. If people don't show layouts then why bother making them? Especially to a high standard. I may as well just lay a couple of tracks around the loft. Have no scenery and run my trains as I want to as nobody will ever see them! Model railways do need shows and if they need shows they need someone to run them. Maybe the larger shows are getting too big for the clubs/societies and maybe it would be an idea for a commercial operation to step in for some shows if they can make it financially viable. Not everyone wants to watch model trains on videos. In fact I think it's totally pointless and a waste of time. In the flesh I'll watch them. Jason 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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