Peterborough North

[New Haven Neil]

I have actually discovered that with the sound turned off, I can hear the WD (known as Iron Lungs at Tyne Dock to due to racket the motion made), this must be due to listening to many of the Peter Handford records I have!  My brain is able to fill in the gaps.    The realism of the video takes me to a world far, far from this boring work desk.....    (PS - I am on my lunch!).

 

As for the slotting of the distant (sorry if this is wandering OT a bit Gilbert - I do....) after some thought I now recall where I used to see this.  Tile Shed box's home had the distant for East Boldon on it, which was motor driven.  When the Middlesboro came through, which didn't stop at EB and therefore was doing about 60, it was possible to see the distant just begin to come off as the train passed, and the Tile Shed bobby quickly dropped the (mechanical) home on as it was a level crossing on a busy road.  Thus the home went quickly to stop but the distant continued to it's full travel show off, before then dropping slowly again.  The motor driven boards were quite slow! [/anecdote]

[Oldddudders]

I've seen mucky vids with less heavy breathing, I think. And the "oh, no!" when you thought something not right reassures the rest of us that even on this most delicious of models there can be anxious moments and/or scope for cock-up.

 

We watched The Laird hone his video skills on Bradfield, Gloucester Square, with substantial progress. I am confident that PN will see the same. Nevertheless a great start, which should ensure even more visitors to this record-breaking thread.

[Timara]

Does the home signal Tortoise have a spare pair of contacts?

 

Hi Andy,

 

Yes, both contact switches are available on all tortoises.  The distant, however, is dependent on the MAS at the south end of platform two.  I'm working out what electronic interlocking I can possibly do to allow the distant to only be controllable with that signal showing either a yellow or a green aspect.

 

What did you have in mind?

 

Cheers,

[The Stationmaster]

Hi Andy,

 

Yes, both contact switches are available on all tortoises.  The distant, however, is dependent on the MAS at the south end of platform two.  I'm working out what electronic interlocking I can possibly do to allow the distant to only be controllable with that signal showing either a yellow or a green aspect.

 

What did you have in mind?

 

Cheers,

The logic - which is where you need to start - is fairly simple Tim.  The bracket signal at North has three states - both arms 'on'; stop arm off' with distant arm 'on'; both arms 'off'.  The slot controls prevent the distant arm moving to 'off' when the stop arm is at 'on' and also control the distant arm back to 'on' when the stop arm is returned to 'on'  (although a motor worked arm might well be prototypical and move back rather more slowly and jerkily than a mechanically operated arm).

 

The distant arm obviously is also controlled by the signals at the south end and without knowing the actual controls at Peterborough (although LNERGE might well pop up and give us the exact details?) the simplistic situation is that it's working as the distant for the south end so it should only be off when all relevant stop signals there are 'off'.  However in this case the Home Signal at that end is a colour light and it would no doubt only clear up to green with all other relevant signals 'off' so logically the distant would only move to 'off' when that signal is green.  (At which point LNERGE comes in saying it was a 4 aspect coloutr light and it wasn't quite like that.)

[Timara]

The logic - which is where you need to start - is fairly simple Tim.  The bracket signal at North has three states - both arms 'on'; stop arm off' with distant arm 'on'; both arms 'off'.  The slot controls prevent the distant arm moving to 'off' when the stop arm is at 'on' and also control the distant arm back to 'on' when the stop arm is returned to 'on'  (although a motor worked arm might well be prototypical and move back rather more slowly and jerkily than a mechanically operated arm).

 

The distant arm obviously is also controlled by the signals at the south end and without knowing the actual controls at Peterborough (although LNERGE might well pop up and give us the exact details?) the simplistic situation is that it's working as the distant for the south end so it should only be off when all relevant stop signals there are 'off'.  However in this case the Home Signal at that end is a colour light and it would no doubt only clear up to green with all other relevant signals 'off' so logically the distant would only move to 'off' when that signal is green.  (At which point LNERGE comes in saying it was a 4 aspect coloutr light and it wasn't quite like that.)

 

 

Thanks Mike!  I knew you'd come up with the goods .

 

A quick check back through the topic shows both colour light signals at the south end to have 3 aspects each, so that means your advice above can be followed to the letter .  That from platform 6 (excursion platform) has a feather indicator too, but that is irrelevant to the distant signal under discussion.  I think the use of the passing contact switch controlling the home signal and then the green aspect from the platform 2 starter will be enough to allow the distant to be controlled.

 

It does, however, hinge on Gilbert remembering all that when setting his signals up before driving trains

 

Cheers!

[andyrush]

Thanks Mike!  I knew you'd come up with the goods .

 

A quick check back through the topic shows both colour light signals at the south end to have 3 aspects each, so that means your advice above can be followed to the letter .  That from platform 6 (excursion platform) has a feather indicator too, but that is irrelevant to the distant signal under discussion.  I think the use of the passing contact switch controlling the home signal and then the green aspect from the platform 2 starter will be enough to allow the distant to be controlled.

 

It does, however, hinge on Gilbert remembering all that when setting his signals up before driving trains

 

Cheers!

Surely all you need to do is feed the return for the distant Tortoise over the home Tortoise contacts, so when the latter is at danger there is no feed to the distant. The actual conditions for the distant coming off are irrelevant in this context, they can only apply when the home is off.

 

Andy

[Oldddudders]

Surely all you need to do is feed the return for the distant Tortoise over the home Tortoise contacts, so when the latter is at danger there is no feed to the distant. The actual conditions for the distant coming off are irrelevant in this context, they can only apply when the home is off.

 

Andy

Umm, I think that would correctly inhibit the distant in coming off - but it would not ensure the return to on that we seek, I think?

[tetleys]

A belated happy birthday Gilbert, I recall your 60th bash and that was pre-Peterborough North so ageing has some compensations.

 

On a more serious note, how come you've never pointed out the lady and her spaniels with pink noses when I'm visiting, I'm not a dog lover but she doesn't sound like a dog to me.

 

Dog Rough of Ancaster

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Clive,

 

 This was partly a senior moment. Being even more senior than I was the previous day. i keyed in the command for the distant first, and of course with the camera running it was too late to do anything about it. I was concerned myself though that both should have returned to danger at the same time, but the problem is that they are worked by separate Tortoises, and thus have different accessory numbers on my NCE system. I'll have another look at the manual and the instructions for the accessory decoder to see if we can work both off the same command, though I'm not confident that it can be done. Tim is a very bright young chappie though, so maybe he can come up with something.

Hi Gilbert

 

In many ways I am glad to read that the failings were not those of the signalmen involved but sad to learn that it was the equipment they have been provided with.

 

I look forward to seeing how young Mr. Easter sorts out this potential danger.

[James]

That from platform 6 (excursion platform) has a feather indicator too, but that is irrelevant to the distant signal under discussion.

The distant associated with that signal might not be capable of showing a green aspect if a diverging route has been set - that may need to be checked.

[great northern]

Thanks Mike!  I knew you'd come up with the goods .

 

A quick check back through the topic shows both colour light signals at the south end to have 3 aspects each, so that means your advice above can be followed to the letter .  That from platform 6 (excursion platform) has a feather indicator too, but that is irrelevant to the distant signal under discussion.  I think the use of the passing contact switch controlling the home signal and then the green aspect from the platform 2 starter will be enough to allow the distant to be controlled.

 

It does, however, hinge on Gilbert remembering all that when setting his signals up before driving trains

 

Cheers!

What! Remember what? Who? me?  I'm a bit confused, I think. However, what i do know is that there was only one colour light at the South end, the one on the Up main. Ken Gibbons and I thought there must be another one for the excursion platform line when departing to the South, but Andy Y found some photos for MI which would have shown it had it existed, so it didn't.  The one that did exist was three aspect, plus feather for the line down to East station. How trains departing for East from the excursion platform were signalled to get down there I do not know.

Edited June 11, 2013 by great northern

[great northern]

A belated happy birthday Gilbert, I recall your 60th bash and that was pre-Peterborough North so ageing has some compensations.

 

On a more serious note, how come you've never pointed out the lady and her spaniels with pink noses when I'm visiting, I'm not a dog lover but she doesn't sound like a dog to me.

 

Dog Rough of Ancaster

Because you always sit facing in the wrong direction.

[Mallard60022]

OK I've just returned from my dark room whilst all this technical chat about signals was happening (please tell me it has gone away now.....). Forget pooches and pink things, lets get back to some real dirt - back to big, local Pacifics, clanking and wheezing pilots and some throbbing 40s please, ASAP. 

Worried of 36E.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Mallard60022

[beast66606]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/64215236@N03/6959581017/

 

A nice view of the South

 

 

Like the signals, a good job by Ken. If young Tim feeds the distant through a contact on each of the relevant signals switches / motors it should only clear when everything is off, and return to caution if anything is returned. I used to use relays for this.

[beast66606]

What! Remember what? Who? me?  I'm a bit confused, I think. However, what i do know is that there was only one colour light at the South end, the one on the Up main. Ken Gibbons and I thought there must be another one for the excursion platform line when departing to the South, but Andy Y found some photos for MI which would have shown it had it existed, so it didn't.  The one that did exist was three aspect, plus feather for the line down to East station. How trains departing for East from the excursion platform were signalled to get down there I do not know.

 

I'm not sure which is the "excursion" platform so apologies if I'm mistaken but here's an early shot showing some signals, including main arms.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/33650137@N05/5559518560

[Alister_G]

 

 I was concerned myself though that both should have returned to danger at the same time, but the problem is that they are worked by separate Tortoises, and thus have different accessory numbers on my NCE system. I'll have another look at the manual and the instructions for the accessory decoder to see if we can work both off the same command, though I'm not confident that it can be done. Tim is a very bright young chappie though, so maybe he can come up with something.

 

I'm a relative novice with DCC and therefore am probably wrong, but can you not set a "consist" for accessories as you would for two locos with separate addresses?

 

Just a thought,

Al

[great northern]

I'm not sure which is the "excursion" platform so apologies if I'm mistaken but here's an early shot showing some signals, including main arms.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/33650137@N05/5559518560

Sorry, I should have said Platform 6, the one at the back. For some reason, no doubt way back in the early days it came to be called the excursion platform, and that's how I think of it. That early shot is really nice, and does make me a little sad that only a year before my period the Up main and bays were still signalled by lovely semaphores.

[great northern]

I'm a relative novice with DCC and therefore am probably wrong, but can you not set a "consist" for accessories as you would for two locos with separate addresses?

 

Just a thought,

Al

Thanks Al, I will investigate the manual further. I know I can join programme route setting macros so that they fire in succession, even though each macro will only support ten actions, but I'm still unsure whether I can get two accessories to fire together using the NCE equipment.

[beast66606]

Sorry, I should have said Platform 6, the one at the back. For some reason, no doubt way back in the early days it came to be called the excursion platform, and that's how I think of it. That early shot is really nice, and does make me a little sad that only a year before my period the Up main and bays were still signalled by lovely semaphores.

 

Is that the one with the two down distant arms at the Southern end, and the signal for heading South on the same post but carried on the main stem ? (Visible in this photo https://www.flickr.com/photos/64215236@N03/6959581017/) ? - the stop arms reading towards us look like they have route indicators associated with them - if that's the case, there's your signal. (I think)

 

hth

[beast66606]

Thanks Al, I will investigate the manual further. I know I can join programme route setting macros so that they fire in succession, even though each macro will only support ten actions, but I'm still unsure whether I can get two accessories to fire together using the NCE equipment.

 

The suggestion will mean the distant will always clear if the home is cleared, which is not what you want.

[great northern]

Is that the one with the two down distant arms at the Southern end, and the signal for heading South on the same post but carried on the main stem ? (Visible in this photo https://www.flickr.com/photos/64215236@N03/6959581017/) ? - the stop arms reading towards us look like they have route indicators associated with them - if that's the case, there's your signal. (I think)

 

hth

Thanks Dave. I admit to not really understanding route indicators, so although I have looked at that signal many times, and marvelled at the way arms just seem to have been stuck on ad hoc, I hadn't noticed them.

 

The suggestion will mean the distant will always clear if the home is cleared, which is not what you want.

Indeed it isn't, so many thanks for pointing it out.

[great northern]

I am sorely tempted, but it is nothing to do with blondes this time, and certainly nothing to do with spaniels. For many years I have had a nearly completed kit lurking in a box, but unwilling to tackle the finishing touches myself. A few months ago though Tim introduced me to our member Worsdell Forever, who though he had never met me before very kindly offered to finish it off. Today it arrived back home. My intention was to sell it, as the chances of seeing one at PN were very small, but it is such a lovely little thing, isn't it?

 

In the end, I have hardened my heart, and go it must, so this is really a bit of shameless advertising to say it will shortly be in the Classified section. It will hopefully pay for some of the very long list of goods stock that my advisor Andy Rush tells me I need, and which I can now accomodate as the cassette idea has turned out to be such a winner.

[Mallard60022]

Oh that is a neat little beauty; is it a Gibbo J 15 by any chance?

Q

[great northern]

Oh that is a neat little beauty; is it a Gibbo J 15 by any chance?

Q

It certainly is Phil, and has already been snapped up, so will shortly be flying the nest. Speaking of which, where have you been? Annual migration? Found a new pond? Or just moulting?

[CUTLER2579]

Gilbert,

that Duck wants to mind he does not got two barrels of Lead Shot up his rear end.