Peterborough North

[andyrush]

Gilbert,

that Duck wants to mind he does not got two barrels of Lead Shot up his rear end.    

He will if he comes anywhere near my garden railway! Ducks**t is not conducive to good running, I've found

[Mallard60022]

.....and what brings on  this threat of being shot up the tender then? 'Cheeky' boys........

That J15 makes my effort look really c**p. Hey ho.

P

Edited June 13, 2013 by Mallard60022

[great northern]

Video has been put on hold while I address "certain technical issues", aka not having much clue as to how to do it properly. A sudden dead section on the Up main hasn't helped either. I know it is a loose connection, but which one?

 

Anyway, its a long time since we had any photos, so here are a few to be going on with.

 

Please use the correct entrance to gain access to the platforms.

 

 

It's near where that bloke is standing if you haven't found it yet.

 

And this is just to reassure you that you have come to the right place.

 

Quickly down the South end, and look what is simmering in the Up bay.

 

She's waiting to take over the Up Glasgow, but first the Down West Riding appears behind A1 Aboyeur. I don't think I have ever seen a photo of the headboard being carried, or at least not during this period.

 

And we follow the A1 until she disappears into, and adds to the murk under the roof.

[landscapes]

Hi Gilbert

 

I have look at your latest photos three or four times and I am still not sure if that second photo is your model layout or an actual station photo from the 1950's.

 

Very nice set of photos.

 

David

[Mallard60022]

Absolute classics. Can't say I would miss the video when we can stuff like this. Brilliant.

Quack.

[simon hudson]

I have to agree with the Drake the latest batch of photos are absolutely stunning.All just oozing atmosphere  simply put, perfect 

[New Haven Neil]

For me today, it's the third one - shows Mr Gravy Train's work off superbly, with nice subdued colours from Gilbert's photography.

 

I'm with the high speed duck too! Great photos that get better and better.

[Alister_G]

The quality of light in the last photo of the A1, with the "sky" reflecting off the coach windows, is absolutely stunning. You can feel the storm brewing.

[CUTLER2579]

_{".....and what brings on  this threat of being shot up the tender then? 'Cheeky' boys..."}

 

_{As if a reason is required, still if you insist The day had a Y in it. Seems good enough reason  to implant some Lead into that Duck.}

 

_{Del   . .....}

Edited June 15, 2013 by CUTLER2579

[great northern]

Having reached very swift agreement for my J15 to go to an excellent home, more modelling funds became available. Turning my face firmly and resolutely from yet more locos, or even coaches,   an order winged its way to Hattons on Saturday afternoon, for a variety of goods stock, the ever helpful Mr Rush having taken the trouble to give me a good idea of what the composition of my goods trains really should be. Rather to my disbelief, the parcel arrived at 0915 this morning. Eleven out of ten for Hattons I think.

 

Now I had already filled as many cassettes as I could with existing stock, and rapidly ran out. Some nice new stock therefore remains unpacked. I couldn't though resist creating one part of a train which had some nice big wagons in the formation, and here it is. I've not worked out how to do this stitching lark, so a series of images is what you get. This is a mid afternoon New England - Ferme Park class F. Some say that Bachmann WD's won't haul much. This one manages 37 + brake without the slightest problem. The train is formed of my loaded coal train, which for now resides permanently on the layout, with the addition of the contents of one cassette to the rear. Please don't tell me I've got it wrong Andy.

 

We start with some coal.

 

And some more.

 

More still, followed by some general goods.

 

And then some loaded steel carriers.

 

And of course the end.

 

You don't get many of those bogie bolsters in a four foot cassette, so I'll have to do a bit more head scratching and come up with a new idea or two. Speaking of which, the cassettes really do change everything, and potentially free up a lot of fiddle yard space. Of course the first impulse is to fill that space with more trains, but I think the best thing is to give more of the expresses a dedicated road. That means a lot of "wasted" space, as there will be a good deal of room over in most of the roads, but it will avoid some complex shuffling manoeuvres which take place at present, and in fact result in a complete road having to be left empty nearly all the time. All part of an ever evolving layout, and it just adds to the fascination of the whole thing. And I can already fill at least another ten cassettes........when they get made.

[jwealleans]

Looks OK to me, Gilbert. If I were to be ever so slightly critical, I'd say 'shiny wheels', although if they've just come out of the box that's fair enough.

 

Has Mr. Rush started on fitted heads and those nice bogie brick wagons yet?

[great northern]

Looks OK to me, Gilbert. If I were to be ever so slightly critical, I'd say 'shiny wheels', although if they've just come out of the box that's fair enough.

 

Has Mr. Rush started on fitted heads and those nice bogie brick wagons yet?

That's good news Jonathan, if you approve there can't be too much wrong. And yes, some of this is literally straight out of the box, so the weathering hasn't been applied yet. If I do all that Mr Rush has suggested I shall have filled 18 cassettes and come somewhere near to modelling 20+ real trains. I'm happy to do it, but it will probably take some time, though I have been pleasantly suprised to discover how much stock I already have. Well over 50 vans for a start, though far too many of them are unfitted. Can you recommend a good source for some bauxite paint? I have plenty of vac pipes!

 

We will have some fitted heads, but not till I get some more cassettes built. As to brick wagons, it seems that few would have been seen coming through the station in my period. I gather they would have mainly gone South and would have started from Fletton. I can't find any on the WTT I have. Anyway, hopefully your visit is still on? and you will be able to see for yourself what I have planned.

 

Oh, and while I think about it, can you help me with the presence or otherwise of containers in the ECML fish trains. I can't see any in the photos I have found, but Andy thinks there may have been some.

[The Stationmaster]

 

Oh, and while I think about it, can you help me with the presence or otherwise of containers in the ECML fish trains. I can't see any in the photos I have found, but Andy thinks there may have been some.

The main Aberdeen train I can only recall as being entirely vans around your date - but then I only used to see it on visits to my grandfather somewhat north of you on the ECML so that is hardly 'everyday, year round' information alas.

[jwealleans]

I use Railmatch bauxite paint, with a spot of brown sometimes added for variety. I'm sure I've read that some people just use a spray primer.

 

I am still intending to visit as we arranged and very much looking forward to it.

 

Containers on the ECML I'm not sure about - I'll have to check my sources. There are some on my WB thread you can take a look at and see how I did them - some time last year I think. What you could probably have are some of these magnificent beasts. There is no kit at the moment in 4mm although I keep hearing suggestions that it may come about.

 

Incidentally, some ideas for you at the end of this thread for wagon loads which I saw this weekend.

Edited June 17, 2013 by jwealleans

[The Stationmaster]

I use Railmatch bauxite paint, with a spot of brown sometimes added for variety. I'm sure I've read that some people just use a spray primer.

 

I am still intending to visit as we arranged and very much looking forward to it.

 

Containers on the ECML I'm not sure about - I'll have to check my sources. There are some on my WB thread you can take a look at and see how I did them - some time last year I think. What you could probably have are some of these magnificent beasts. There is no kit at the moment in 4mm although I keep hearing suggestions that it may come about.

Ooh, I wonder where they found those ...  a Google search for insixfish found mention of several models including one for 00 allegedly using a Stove R chassis   

[Pilgrim in France]

Certainly remember seeing Birds Eye containers in the Grimsby - London fish trains in the late 50s

[Timara]

Ooh, I wonder where they found those ...  a Google search for insixfish found mention of several models including one for 00 allegedly using a Stove R chassis   

 

 

They look like they have the same underframe as the 6-wheel milk vans used by the GW and LMS.  I think Chivers do most of a kit, but would need a new body!

[davidw]

Having reached very swift agreement for my J15 to go to an excellent home, more modelling funds became available. Turning my face firmly and resolutely from yet more locos, or even coaches,   an order winged its way to Hattons on Saturday afternoon, for a variety of goods stock, the ever helpful Mr Rush having taken the trouble to give me a good idea of what the composition of my goods trains really should be. Rather to my disbelief, the parcel arrived at 0915 this morning. Eleven out of ten for Hattons I think.

 

Now I had already filled as many cassettes as I could with existing stock, and rapidly ran out. Some nice new stock therefore remains unpacked. I couldn't though resist creating one part of a train which had some nice big wagons in the formation, and here it is. I've not worked out how to do this stitching lark, so a series of images is what you get. This is a mid afternoon New England - Ferme Park class F. Some say that Bachmann WD's won't haul much. This one manages 37 + brake without the slightest problem. The train is formed of my loaded coal train, which for now resides permanently on the layout, with the addition of the contents of one cassette to the rear. Please don't tell me I've got it wrong Andy.Goods 1.jpg

 

We start with some coal.goods 2.jpg

 

And some more.goods 3.jpg

 

More still, followed by some general goods.goods 4.jpg

 

And then some loaded steel carriers.goods 5.jpg

 

And of course the end.goods 6.jpg

 

You don't get many of those bogie bolsters in a four foot cassette, so I'll have to do a bit more head scratching and come up with a new idea or two. Speaking of which, the cassettes really do change everything, and potentially free up a lot of fiddle yard space. Of course the first impulse is to fill that space with more trains, but I think the best thing is to give more of the expresses a dedicated road. That means a lot of "wasted" space, as there will be a good deal of room over in most of the roads, but it will avoid some complex shuffling manoeuvres which take place at present, and in fact result in a complete road having to be left empty nearly all the time. All part of an ever evolving layout, and it just adds to the fascination of the whole thing. And I can already fill at least another ten cassettes........when they get made.

Gibert I've a pair of WD's one will pull a house brick the other is less willing both have had springs removed

[andyrush]

Looks OK to me, Gilbert. If I were to be ever so slightly critical, I'd say 'shiny wheels', although if they've just come out of the box that's fair enough.

 

Has Mr. Rush started on fitted heads and those nice bogie brick wagons yet?

Absolutely OK Gibert - so long as those 5 plank opens are loaded. 

 

The problem with bogie brick wagons is they don't seem to have been used much on trains from New England in Gilbert's period, although this thread on the LNER Encyclopedia forum says they were http://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3651. They certainly seemed to have spread their wings a bit in BR days! See http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lneropenwood/h358f611e#h358f611e. Anyway as GB already has some, he had better use them - but only in odd ones and twos on the engines of class F trains originating at New England and they will need to be loaded. The return empties would have been worked direct to Fletton, I reckon.

 

Reading the above, I can see the reason for them not being seen very much south of Peterborough in daytime, even if they were being used. There were no daytime class E's in 1958 and there wasn't much point in putting them on class F's because they didn't need to run any faster than unfitted timings and the trains were presumably up to length limit anyway with a WD on the front.

 

As far as Birds Eye Containers were concerned, I'm pretty sure they were first used for traffic from Yarmouth to London in 1959 - see the ever helpful http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/conflatbafp He also says that insulated AFP containers weren't introduced until that year, so if that is the type that was used on the Aberdeen fish trains, it wouldn't be until after Gilbert's chosen date anyway. I will have a furtle round in my references to see if I can find why I thought some sort of insulated containers were in use earlier....

 

Andy

[micklner]

Halfords Red Oxide on mine. Covers well and takes enamel washes for weathering.

[Pilgrim in France]

Checking back, the Birds Eye containers were certainly on the Grimsby fish train before September 1962 as that was when we moved. There were usually 2 fish trains in the early evening, and the "Blue Spots" had become  quite usual. By then they were almost always pulled by a 9F and seemed to travel faster than the Grimsby - Kings Cross express. Once they had gone through we knew it was time to go home!

[jwealleans]

So far I've found two roughly appropriate pictures (both in Eastern Steam in Retrospect, Eric Sawford). One is 1954 and one 1959, both positively identified as fish trains and nary a container in either of them.

Edited June 17, 2013 by jwealleans

[andyrush]

Out of period and inconclusive but The Book of the Great Northern by Peter Coster Vol.1 p.129 has an up train with three 'white' container-like loads in highfits (but could be timber crates). Out of period but right railway, fish train for London leaving Grimsby in April 1961 with several 'white' containers visible (could be Birds Eye by then) in The Railways Around Grimsby, Cleethorpes, Immingham and North East Lincolnshire (Foxline) plate 134. There are numerous other chuffery pictures of fish trains in this book but no other containers can be seen. Also out of period and the wrong railway, May 1962 shot of the Grimsby - Whitland fish on pp.62 and 86 of An Illustrated History of Mansfield's Railways (Irwell) show several containers marshalled next to the engine.

 

Looking at British Railways Wagons - the first half million by Don Rowland, there were over 500 AF and AX containers built between 1950 and 1958 before the AFP Birds Eye containers came along.

 

I'll keep looking....!

 

Andy

[Theakerr]

Like  "Pilgrim in France" I remember the odd Birds Eye containers on the evening fish trains as they went through New Waltham.  As I remember they started to appear just about the same time the special Blue spot fish vans came on the scene.  

[great northern]

I've been busy. Several visitors, of which more later, but first here is another of my occasional attempts to reproduce a prototype photograph. The original is copyright of Andrew C Ingram, and not to be further reproduced please. OK, here it is.

 

I have two copies of this photo. The first appears in a photo album by Vic Fincham, the original photogapher. According to the caption the 9F is coming off the train at Platform 6. The second is in British Railways Steaming Through Peterborough, where according to the caption it is backing onto its train. "Devoid of any train identifying lamps of any description" says the caption, and that the A1 "looks on in disgust".   Surely not if it is backing on? Wouldn't the light engine code be on the tender? Anyway, I've done my photo without any visible lamps as well.

 

 

The degree of compression necessary at the North end becomes obvious in this shot. The A1 is taking water in the prototype photo, whereas on mine the loco and first coach have to be past the water crane to get this view. I've also deleted the Down bay starter signal, which appears on my photo, but shouldn't. I'm not beating myself up over this however, (for once, you might say), as I would need another six feet in room length to be able to get it right, and a lot more width too. I haven't got the correct 9F either. What it does show though is that it's all a bit bare at the moment, a lot more lamps and other small detail is needed.