Dapol 'Western'

[Enterprisingwestern]

Crack on Mike, I've PM'd Dave to let him know.

 

(Just anxious to get on with molesting it)

 

Thanks Andy, let the molestation begin.

 

No worries guys...I'll let David know that we're back to 'plan A'. Good news that you've found a straightforward route to a conversion.

 

Regards

 

Dave 

 

There will be someone who is more computer and camera savvy than me around tomorrow, so I'll attempt a few photos and a bit of a description,,,,,Hopefully.

 

Thanks chaps.

 

Mike.

[97403_Ixion]

Hi all,

I have a question (possibly for Dapol Dave!).

 

I watched a DVD the other day and there was reference to one Western livery being Gloss Black!  It was pointed out that this only occurred whilst in works and was not seen out on the mainline.

 

So, the question is - did this really happen?

 

I am wondering if this was just a myth, a livery only in preservation, a play on Sir Misha Black or that it happened at all.  I can only imagine what it would look like... and with a small yellow panel would probably look superb!

 

So, the Dapol Dave question is... are you going to... well, you know the rest!!

 

Cheers,

Ixion.

[Michael Delamar]

thought these where nice shots and not sure if been posted already...

 

1012 'Western Firebrand' and Mr Heyl on Laira - 13th December, 1975 by Deadmans Handle, on Flickr

 

What Lurks Within? by Deadmans Handle, on Flickr

[D1030western musketeer]

As this is photo review topic allways welcome pics of 52s,that last one clearly shows the numbers in the headcode take the box up fully with no gaps.

I have started using fox transfers waterslide headcodes by simply painting the glazing before use a light white so they show through and are still visible in daylight.

More pics of the Dapol western please,as to drool over before release.

 

richard.

[steam-driven boy]

Hi,

Hi all,

I have a question (possibly for Dapol Dave!).

 

I watched a DVD the other day and there was reference to one Western livery being Gloss Black!  It was pointed out that this only occurred whilst in works and was not seen out on the mainline.

 

So, the question is - did this really happen?

 

I am wondering if this was just a myth, a livery only in preservation, a play on Sir Misha Black or that it happened at all.  I can only imagine what it would look like... and with a small yellow panel would probably look superb!

 

So, the Dapol Dave question is... are you going to... well, you know the rest!!

 

Cheers,

Ixion.

Two simultanious discussions on RMweb not so long ago, here's one with a link to the other 8)

 

Regards, Gerry. 

[DapolDave]

Well there's a good review in this coming Model Rail which i received today.

 

92% though as it apparently has fragile parts and easy detachment of brake rigging!  (oh and isnt branded on the box 'Heljornbymann" either.  ), What do we have to do to get a higher mark?

Seriously though, the brake rigging is a loose interference fit to allow re-wheeling and a blob of glue when you get yours is advised,

and fragile detail parts!  design proper or design stupid? Do you want (as modellers) detail parts or dont you?

 

It seems that possibly MR think that all detail parts should be solidly affixed (with all that implies regarding heavy looks etc) at any price, and that modellers arent willing to pay the retail price for 'fragile detail parts' as thats a poor design feature and have marked us down because of the latter.

 

I'd appreciate opinions please.

cheers

Dave

[90rob]

Well there's a good review in this coming Model Rail which i received today.

 

92% though as it apparently has fragile parts and easy detachment of brake rigging!  (oh and isnt branded on the box 'Heljornbymann" either.  ), What do we have to do to get a higher mark?

Seriously though, the brake rigging is a loose interference fit to allow re-wheeling and a blob of glue when you get yours is advised,

and fragile detail parts!  design proper or design stupid? Do you want (as modellers) detail parts or dont you?

 

It seems that possibly MR think that all detail parts should be solidly affixed (with all that implies regarding heavy looks etc) at any price, and that modellers arent willing to pay the retail price for 'fragile detail parts' as thats a poor design feature and have marked us down because of the latter.

 

I'd appreciate opinions please.

cheers

Dave

That's convinced me - I'm ordering one!

[trent]

Hi Martin,

 

I am in the process of putting Ian (Leggomanbiffo) togetehr with the WLA at the SVR to record D1062 when she comes out of winter hibernation. (might be 6-8 weeks away)

Between them they should get the definitive sound recording of one of these beasts.

 

Cheers

Dave

 

That is great news, thanks Dave.

 

Martin

[trent]

On the design aspect Dave, I personally don't agree with Hornby's "design clever" approach and would rather pay more money for a more detailed (separately fixed parts) model.

 

Haven't seen the magazine yet but I would have thought from what I've read here the model would have achieved a rating of more than 92%. 

 

Martin

[orcadian]

 

Well there's a good review in this coming Model Rail which i received today.

 

92% though , What do we have to do to get a higher mark?

I'd appreciate opinions please.

cheers

Dave

 

Well, Dave, as I have 'only' seen it through this thread and not yet in (very)'hard copy', I should perhaps reserve judgement, but it's hard to imagine a better-looking rtr diesel! However, suppose they had given you very close to, or even the magical 'ton', then you'd have been left with no room for improvement on future models! In my teaching days, I did once tell a star pupil that he had better not get less than 98% in a certain public exam. He saw me as he came out of the exam room, and said 'I'll get that 98% - I left out a 2-mark answer!' He was right - he did get 98%.

 

Perhaps 'Western Perfection' is going to be the N Gauge one?      

Then there's always the best-ever Class 50 still coming, as well as a blooming good 73!

 

Seriously, Dave, you and your team have done wonders with the Western - keep on listening and keep on making models like this one, please!

 

Richard

[Metr0Land]

Well there's a good review in this coming Model Rail which i received today.

 

92% though as it apparently has fragile parts and easy detachment of brake rigging!  (oh and isnt branded on the box 'Heljornbymann" either.  ), What do we have to do to get a higher mark?

Seriously though, the brake rigging is a loose interference fit to allow re-wheeling and a blob of glue when you get yours is advised,

and fragile detail parts!  design proper or design stupid? Do you want (as modellers) detail parts or dont you?

 

It seems that possibly MR think that all detail parts should be solidly affixed (with all that implies regarding heavy looks etc) at any price, and that modellers arent willing to pay the retail price for 'fragile detail parts' as thats a poor design feature and have marked us down because of the latter.

 

I'd appreciate opinions please.

cheers

Dave

 

I would concentrate on your customers and how they vote with their wallets.  Although reviews in mags may be interesting, I'm not that sure how much it sways the end customer unless it's a real dog.

 

In recent times we've had the 4VEP (no interest to me) and the L1 (huge interest to me).  OK both Hornby but to illustrate the point if you'd read the reviews you'd hardly have picked up on the problems with the 4VEP's we've seen discussed on here.  IIRC only one review mentioned the L1 front pony derailing when the loco goes forwards over points, which significantly detracted from what was otherwise a great model (though I since worked out a low tech solution and others have come up with better engineered ones).

 

The mags will say they can only review the sample given, that may be, but in some cases their reviews can be 'way off' certain aspects of the  model in use and I think most of us recognise that.  As Churchill would say: Keep B*ggering On!'

[Adrian Knowles]

Well there's a good review in this coming Model Rail which i received today.

 

92% though as it apparently has fragile parts and easy detachment of brake rigging!  (oh and isnt branded on the box 'Heljornbymann" either.  ), What do we have to do to get a higher mark?

Seriously though, the brake rigging is a loose interference fit to allow re-wheeling and a blob of glue when you get yours is advised,

and fragile detail parts!  design proper or design stupid? Do you want (as modellers) detail parts or dont you?

 

It seems that possibly MR think that all detail parts should be solidly affixed (with all that implies regarding heavy looks etc) at any price, and that modellers arent willing to pay the retail price for 'fragile detail parts' as thats a poor design feature and have marked us down because of the latter.

 

I'd appreciate opinions please.

cheers

Dave

You only have to look at the photos to see that this is probably the best r-t-r diesel there has ever been in 4mm scale.

 

When a review starts criticising fragile detail you have to wonder who on earth they think their audience is - the train set market?

 

I say take it with a pinch of salt - reviews are often written to stir controversy and sell magazines. I have three of these gorgeous 52s on order and am tempted to order another.

[Guest jim s-w]

What parts are fragile Dave? What are they made from and how are they attached?

 

Jim

[Andy Y]

I haven't seen the review in question but I can say that the brake rigging can be a loose fit, some of my snaps may even show that, but it's fair to say that it's probably one of the easiest jobs imaginable for a dab of superglue and re-fit them before use if you're not re-gauging or weathering the wheels. I can even re-fit them without resorting to my glasses.

 

Although Dave's listened to me chunter about roof eyes I'd have deserved a couple of wise words if I'd moaned about the brake rigging.

[Andy Y]

What parts are fragile Dave? What are they made from and how are they attached?

 

Jim

 

The brake-rigging isn't fragile (nor any other part I've touched), it's just that the plastic parts are a loose-ish fit into the holes at the base of the brake shoes. It's honestly no big deal.

[Guest jim s-w]

You only have to look at the photos to see that this is probably the best r-t-r diesel there has ever been in 4mm scale.

 .

It doesn't look as accurate as dapols own class 22 so while it looks really good I'm not sure you can really claim its the best rtr diesel ever to be honest. The 22 is definitely better in my humble opinion.

 

Cheers

 

Jim

[90rob]

I would concentrate on your customers and how they vote with their wallets.  Although reviews in mags may be interesting, I'm not that sure how much it sways the end customer unless it's a real dog.

 

...and when did any magazine describe any model as - well - bad.

I only bought in to Dapol for the first time last year, and I must say I am enormously impressed and am 'voting with my wallet'! I do so hope that Dapol can maintain the standard - I am keeping an open mind about Hornby's design intentions, but to me they reached their peak with the T9, and any decline in standards now will be slightly disappointing

[Guest jim s-w]

The brake-rigging isn't fragile (nor any other part I've touched), it's just that the plastic parts are a loose-ish fit into the holes at the base of the brake shoes. It's honestly no big deal.

I assumed (I haven't seen the review either) that since they picked up on the brake rigging separately the fragile parts referred to something else perhaps? I dunno.

[The Fatadder]

Sounds like a good compromise to me, much better than making it over thick or impossible to fit scale wheels!

[The Stationmaster]

Well there's a good review in this coming Model Rail which i received today.

 

92% though as it apparently has fragile parts and easy detachment of brake rigging!  (oh and isnt branded on the box 'Heljornbymann" either.  ), What do we have to do to get a higher mark?

Seriously though, the brake rigging is a loose interference fit to allow re-wheeling and a blob of glue when you get yours is advised,

and fragile detail parts!  design proper or design stupid? Do you want (as modellers) detail parts or dont you?

 

It seems that possibly MR think that all detail parts should be solidly affixed (with all that implies regarding heavy looks etc) at any price, and that modellers arent willing to pay the retail price for 'fragile detail parts' as thats a poor design feature and have marked us down because of the latter.

 

I'd appreciate opinions please.

cheers

Dave

On that basis it sounds as if I've made the right decision to order my three.  If the detail is there and reasonably to scale then some of it will be fragile and require care in handling (my big concern is the coil springs - I'm waiting to see how that works out - but the orders will remain in place for the other two once I've got the first one).  In summary I am willing to pay for detail - true I could add some of it myself but I thought we'd got past carving off moulded handrails about 30 years ago - and quite honestly there's no way I could manage painting and lining to the standard of the better r-t-r manufacturers.  And because of the letter point that rules out a lot of detail fiddling about.

 

So yes - move forward with detail, make it clear that some of it might require a spot of glue etc, but don't step backwards.  I'm sorry but there seems to be a distinct 'hair shirt' reaction to r-t-r models emerging at present and I think it is a worrying trend in many respects.  If a manufacturer wants to aim at the toy shop & trainset market (and price accordingly) fair enough, if they aspire to greater detail fidelity for a different market then they should carry on and do so and such models will obviously not be coming at toy shop prices.  Such aspiration and progress is what this hobby cried out for for years - it's daft to say we don't want it now we've got it.

[Rugd1022]

Well put Mike, as ever. Dave - don't worry squire, we'll have a whip round and stand you the other 8%.... ;O)

 

With all that's been said so far, I'm looking forward to seeing how they look at the head of (for example) a rake of Mk1 stock in the appropriate liveries on peoples layouts - so anyone who's able to, please do post some photos when the time arrives.

 

I think it's time to delve into the goodies box and see which name and number plates are left over from previous incarnations of 4mm Thousands.... ;-)

[Rugd1022]

Those pictures of Westerns wearing headboards remind me of a railtour - I think it was to the SVR - I once travelled on. The Western (I forget which one) hauling the train failed, but twenty minutes later a steam engine (I think a black BR standard tank) arrived to help, wearing a headboard... "Western Replacement"!

 

If you can recall which year it was, it'll be one of these...

 

28th April 1971 with D1027 Western Lancer working a 1Z15 Plymouth Railway Circle tour from Plymouth - SVR and return trip, on which one of it's engines failed. There's a photo of it at Kidderminster in Roger Geach's book 'Westerns - Back To The Old Days'.

 

1st May 1976 with D1013 Western Ranger working a Gwili Railway Circle 'Severn Valley Flyer' tour from Swansea to Kidderminster and return.

[51E]

Well there's a good review in this coming Model Rail which i received today.

 

92% though as it apparently has fragile parts and easy detachment of brake rigging!  (oh and isnt branded on the box 'Heljornbymann" either.  ), What do we have to do to get a higher mark?

Seriously though, the brake rigging is a loose interference fit to allow re-wheeling and a blob of glue when you get yours is advised,

and fragile detail parts!  design proper or design stupid? Do you want (as modellers) detail parts or dont you?

 

It seems that possibly MR think that all detail parts should be solidly affixed (with all that implies regarding heavy looks etc) at any price, and that modellers arent willing to pay the retail price for 'fragile detail parts' as thats a poor design feature and have marked us down because of the latter.

 

I'd appreciate opinions please.

cheers

Dave

 

Hi Dave

 

From reading that I take it you feel its worthy of a better score?? I'd of said 92% is still a good score and a pass in my book.

Could you explain why you think its worthy a better score??

 

I'd say there review is written from the point of view of every modeller not just modellers that know the ins and outs of a Western . Not every modeller will be able or know how and where to fit all the detail parts. There's also those modellers that don't want to buy something and be expected to glue things in place, as can be seen plenty of other times in other threads.

Maybe they agree with a few members on here that the front isn't spot on? 

 

What ever it is they've marked it down for, if your happy with it whats it matter??

 

Cheers

51E

[Horsetan]

.....design proper or design stupid? Do you want (as modellers) detail parts or dont you?....

 

I'd appreciate opinions please.

 

The age-old question rears its head: what do people really want out of a new model? If your projected sales are, say, 5000 units, you may well get 5000 different answers.

[Guest Phil]

With all that's been said so far, I'm looking forward to seeing how they look at the head of (for example) a rake of Mk1 stock in the appropriate liveries on peoples layouts - so anyone who's able to, please do post some photos when the time arrives.

 

Nidge - would that be Bachmann Mk1s or the cleverly designed Railroad ones with the moulded handrails and vents ?

 

Wouldn't you like a blue one on the front of some Bachmann pressurevents ?