The Fall & Rise of the 60's ( was The End of the Tugs?)

[woodenhead]

8 minutes ago, Nova Scotian said:

DB Cargo UK disposing of 12 more Class 60s https://uk.dbcargo.com/rail-uk-en/services/disposals

 

Not being an avid follower (just an occasional interested following) I don't know the history of the units they've put up for sale. I don't think any are the super 60s? 

Pretty much all of them listed in the class 60 Graveyard as of 2020, so a few more added most likely since then.

 

They are getting rid of the worst no doubt, wonder what has happened to those that are at Loughborough awaiting a possible rebuild and how they compare to these - would give some indication if worth tossing in a new engine.

[Nova Scotian]

21 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

Pretty much all of them listed in the class 60 Graveyard as of 2020, so a few more added most likely since then.

 

They are getting rid of the worst no doubt, wonder what has happened to those that are at Loughborough awaiting a possible rebuild and how they compare to these - would give some indication if worth tossing in a new engine.

Something you said at the end there reminded me of some chap who built a life size loco replica (from memory it was US outline, and was a bit rough, based on a relatively simple trailer underneath) to house his model railway collection.

 

Given the state some of these will be in, I wonder if that'd be cheaper than nipping to B&Q for a shed - get a Class 60 dropped off, crack open the rust eater and a few rattle cans of grey primer - jimmy the engine, generator and other heavy bits out the way (down a nearby slope?), and bob's your uncle fanny's your auntie's tennis partner you've got a pretty unique hobby spot.

[37114]

 

7 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Pretty much all of them listed in the class 60 Graveyard as of 2020, so a few more added most likely since then.

 

They are getting rid of the worst no doubt, wonder what has happened to those that are at Loughborough awaiting a possible rebuild and how they compare to these - would give some indication if worth tossing in a new engine.

Based on previous tender lists they seem to put them up for sale when they have had interest from a few parties in them, eg. the Colas batch, then latterly DCR so I suspect there are some willing buyers who have already looked at these...

[4630]

On 29th January 2023, GBRf 60056 leads 66733 Cambridge PSB onto the Calder Valley line heading west at Heaton Lodge Junction with the Sundays Only 6M51, Doncaster Down Decoy to Tuebrook Sidings, empty biomass hoppers...

 

 

...with 60087 bringing up the rear.

[Claude_Dreyfus]

A couple of pictures taken in Cornwall back in March 2000.

 

 

 

60044 was spending the day in the Dutchy. Looks like it did at least one trip to Fowey (running round at Lostwithiel) before heading up to Burngullow, but not up the branch line to Parkandillick. Later I caught it passing the foot crossing just outside of St Blazey depot.

[jbqfc]

60028 seen  on the 09.24 Willesden DC sidings to to Grain stone train passing Crayford at 10.31 running to time 

 

 

[newbryford]

4 hours ago, Claude_Dreyfus said:

A couple of pictures taken in Cornwall back in March 2000.

 

 

 

60044 was spending the day in the Dutchy. Looks like it did at least one trip to Fowey (running round at Lostwithiel) before heading up to Burngullow, but not up the branch line to Parkandillick. Later I caught it passing the foot crossing just outside of St Blazey depot.

 

IIRC 60044 ended up being stored at St Blazey before being selected for the "Super 60" program in 2013

[4630]

On 5th February 2023 GBRf 60056 rumbles along the Calder Valley heading west approaching Brighouse with 6M51, Drax Power Station to Liverpool Biomass Terminal, empty biomass hoppers.

Edited February 5, 2023 by 4630

[Tumut]

Hello All, for a Class that entered service from 1990, and subsequently did periodic periods out of traffic due to ongoing maintenance, and quality control , issues; a 32 year operational life compares badly with the EE Class 37s, and Brush Class 47s & 56s. 2 / the BR class 58s were also a disappointment , so what are the failings of  British, compared to their US designed diesel companies ? Regards from Aus,  

[PhilJ W]

4 hours ago, Tumut said:

Hello All, for a Class that entered service from 1990, and subsequently did periodic periods out of traffic due to ongoing maintenance, and quality control , issues; a 32 year operational life compares badly with the EE Class 37s, and Brush Class 47s & 56s. 2 / the BR class 58s were also a disappointment , so what are the failings of  British, compared to their US designed diesel companies ? Regards from Aus,  

In many cases the work for which they were built has disappeared. The 58 is a classic example, it was built to haul coal from pit to power station in block trains. Within a few years of their introduction the pits were closed and the power stations had gone over to other forms of fuel such as gas.

[newbryford]

On 05/02/2023 at 16:52, Tumut said:

Hello All, for a Class that entered service from 1990, and subsequently did periodic periods out of traffic due to ongoing maintenance, and quality control , issues; a 32 year operational life compares badly with the EE Class 37s, and Brush Class 47s & 56s. 2 / the BR class 58s were also a disappointment , so what are the failings of  British, compared to their US designed diesel companies ? Regards from Aus,  

 

It's not like it's ended at 32 years.......... They are still going strong - albeit in limited numbers.

 

When EWS was formed, they acquired 250 Class 66s on a lease deal, whilst the 60s were already paid off.

As traffic levels fell, then it made some sense to sideline the stuff that didn't need paying for - i.e. the 60s and scrapping off the older classes - whilst using the locos that needed to earn their keep.

 

IIRC, the 66s have since been purchased by EWS, later DB.

 

EWS didn't have much need for type 3 power and got rid of most of the 37s. A few were picked up by the likes of DRS that had the traffic that was suitable for them  - nukes and test trains etc. Not forgetting the EPS 37/6s that were to be used on Nighstar trains that DRS later acquired. Similarly Colas now employ the 37s on the lighter duties of test work and ROG with shifting units around. Yes - there are odd exceptions for the 37s  working heavier dutiesover the last few years

 

However - as has been proved, there are some duties that need the extra grunt of a 60 over a 66. Hence the gradual return to traffic of some of them.

 

And it's well known that the 60 is pretty frugal beast when it comes to fuel consumption

 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by newbryford
60s are better than 66s..

[Nova Scotian]

About 15% of the original Class 37 fleet is in use on the mainline, right? Mid-40s out of 309 originally.

 

Currently mainline in use Class 60s is what, 25? No more than 30, and usually a couple out at anytime. That's still 25%-30% of the fleet on the mainline.

 

The initial size of fleet plays into it too - at 100 strong and with few shared major components with other classes that's going to impact longevity - the order for 250 66s is far more significant in terms of a unified fleet. As comparison, the 26s were about the same class size and lasted 30-35 years. The 40s were double the class size and lasted less than 30 years, Same with the Peaks, less than 30 years. The 100 86s lasted just about 40 years in passenger service, although a handful made it another 15 years in freight service.

 

I think if things had been "different" the 60s would have had a better life. They came at the wrong time in privatisation. An order for 250 would have changed their fortunes, and I can imagine we'd have seen sub-classes rated for different speeds, some different power outputs as it was continously improved etc.

 

I liked the 60s until I finally got the Lima model in early 90s I lusted after (I say finally, it came out in 1990 and it was probably like 91 or 92, but seemed like an age back then!) and it was a disappointment. Not as bad as the Hornby Class 58, but as a kid I didn't really *get* that a model of the real thing didn't necessarily mean it could haul like that real thing... Now they're being rehabilitated :)

[newbryford]

14 minutes ago, Nova Scotian said:

 

 

I liked the 60s until I finally got the Lima model in early 90s I lusted after (I say finally, it came out in 1990 and it was probably like 91 or 92, but seemed like an age back then!) and it was a disappointment. Not as bad as the Hornby Class 58, but as a kid I didn't really *get* that a model of the real thing didn't necessarily mean it could haul like that real thing... Now they're being rehabilitated :)

 

 To renew your interest, he Hornby 60 has decent haulage capacity.

[BernardTPM]

On 06/02/2023 at 01:01, newbryford said:

However - as has been proved, there are some duties that need the extra grunt of a 66 over a 60. Hence the gradual return to traffic of some of them.

Is that the wrong way round?

[newbryford]

13 minutes ago, BernardTPM said:

Is that the wrong way round?

 

Oops - yes - duly edited!

Ta.

[eastwestdivide]

15 hours ago, Nova Scotian said:

About 15% of the original Class 37 fleet is in use on the mainline, right? Mid-40s out of 309 originally.

 

Currently mainline in use Class 60s is what, 25? No more than 30, and usually a couple out at anytime. That's still 25%-30% of the fleet on the mainline...

The lists over at wnxx suggest the numbers of active (mainline not preserved) locos are:

34 Class 37s and

30 Class 60s,

giving percentages for "in use out of number built" of 11% of 37s and 30% of 60s

Edited February 7, 2023 by eastwestdivide
clarity

[vulcan product fan]

Dc rail class 60 60028 at Chesterfield station today 13-2-23

[franciswilliamwebb]

 

 

60059 "Swinden Dalesman" at Margam on 15/07/02 (my photos)

[scots region]

7 hours ago, franciswilliamwebb said:

 

 

60059 "Swinden Dalesman" at Margam on 15/07/02 (my photos)

Load Haul was the best of the privatised liveries, even most modern liveries don’t compare.

[franciswilliamwebb]

 

60060 "James Watt" at Newport on 08/10/99 (my photo)

[franciswilliamwebb]

 

 

60011 at Newport on 19/07/01 (my photos)

[jollysmart]

 

 

60010 rolls light engine through Barnetby 12:28 11th July 2022

[NickL2008]

 

Running to a slightly more solid pattern, and now with a proper headcode 60055 "Thomas Barnardo" accelerates through Chessington North after a signal check with the 6M17, Chessington South stone terminal - Willesden DC siding empties, 02/03/2023

 

NL

[Gilbert]

I decided I ought to post a few of my 60 fots...

60010 at Westerleigh February 2023

60029 at Ram Hill near Bristol Parkway (and Tytherington) February 2023

60062 at Newport Augst 2022

60040 at Newport July 2022

60046 Keynsham July 2022

and 60028 - also at Keynsham - May 2022

60010 - at Keynsham - May 2022

60076 and 60095 at Edge Hill April 2022

60028 (again) at Keynsham

60054 at Yate - on the way to Westerleigh

60011 at Westerleigh September 2021

60074 at Swindon May 2021

60044 Westerleigh April 2021

60054 Westerleigh April 2021

60054 STJ April 2021

60028 Bristol TM April 2021

60015 Yate April 2021

60066 Westerleigh April 2022

60054 Keynsham  March 2021

60011 Keynsham March 2021

60055 Keynsham September 2020

[CWJ]

A few of my photos, more for any historical interest than the photography!  Starting with a bunch of oil tanker trains around York...

 

22nd June 2010 and 60011 in the remains of Mainline blue livery accelerates away from York with a southbound oil train.  Unusually it has been routed through the station rather than the avoiding lines in the foreground.

 

60019 passes the 'Edinburgh 200 Miles' signs at Overton, a few miles North of York, on 6th July 2009.

 

60040 bears down on Copmanthorpe foot crossing, South of York, on 18th August 2009.

 

Back at Overton on 29th September 2011 the Up Slow line reverberates under 60065.

 

I know, I know, I should have released the shutted about a second earlier!  Nevertheless, here's Tata Steel-liveried 60099 at Shipton, North of York, with another southbound oil train.

 

Cheers,

 

Will