ModelRail USTC 0-6-0 Tank Loco Project USA

[dibber25]

70 went straight to departmental malachite green when it re-entered traffic. I have seen a photo on flickr of it in some shade of green whilst parked at Rolvenden pre overhaul, perhaps a protective coating.  65,70 and 72 have had their bunkers/cabs altered post preservation.

 

The shade of green for DS237 on the modelrail offers page looks very bright compared to 30064 but as Chris said there are revisions to 30064 to come. Cracking models.

One of the 'issues' that we had during the early stages, which delayed the model, was eliminating all the post preservation alterations which have been made to the loco we originally scanned. (CJL)

[No Decorum]

I ordered a couple of these a long time ago and I’m delighted to see a decorated sample of 30064 at last. The shade may not be exactly right but the crispness of the finish and the sheen look mouthwatering. I have ordered a third in between the price rises: that’s the LMR one and thanks to Invicta I’ll have a coach to run with it. It’s not easy trying to resist getting more.

[AySea]

I've had a quick look, but can't see this information anywhere, so thought I'd ask here to see if anyone may be able to help me.

According to the book 'Lines to Avonmouth' by Mike Vincent, three of these USA tanks went on loan to Avonmouth. There are two pictures on page 92 showing three locos, one photo is dated 24th March 1944 and shows two USA tanks on barges, the other picture is dated 30th August 1944 and shows a loco hauling some open wagons. The text on page 93 says the batch that were loaned out (Six to Liverpool, three to Manchester, one to Bromborough, two to Tilbury and three to Avonmouth) were sent out on the 1st June 1944. Based on these dates, the first photo implies that the locos in the barges were waiting to be unloaded having just arrivied in the country, so no guarentee that those two operated at Avonmouth. The other picture showing one that did operate at Avonmouth isn't quite clear enough for me to be sure of the number (the livery appears to match MR-101 with 'Transportation Corps U.S. Army' on the side, so that would be a good place to start for re-numbering).

 

So finally to my actual question; Does anyone know details of the three that apparently operated at Avonmouth Docks (numbers, livery, etc)?

 

Thanks in advance for any replies I get.

[BRs1962]

I notice the aerials on the front of the tanks are not shown on the photo of 30069. Will (or could) these be included in an accessory pack as it carried these for a number of years in its later life? 

[dibber25]

I notice the aerials on the front of the tanks are not shown on the photo of 30069. Will (or could) these be included in an accessory pack as it carried these for a number of years in its later life? 

Sorry, I don't know. There is an accessory pack including the drop-down front plate where appropriate. I know we did, at a very early stage, decide to omit one part, represented by a plastic rod, which looked over scale and spoiled the look of the model. (CJL)

[TonyA]

With the Longmoor version, I see the sample has the works plate lettering picked out in white. Does anyone know when this was done?

In all the photos that I have seen, it appears to be the same colour as the smokebox as in this photo taken in 1955.

 

http://railphotoprints.zenfolio.com/p242188935/h6F908E99#h6f908e99

 

It would be easy enough to change for my period but it would be nice to know.

 

Many thanks,

 

Tony

[BRs1962]

Sorry, I don't know. There is an accessory pack including the drop-down front plate where appropriate. I know we did, at a very early stage, decide to omit one part, represented by a plastic rod, which looked over scale and spoiled the look of the model. (CJL)

The aerials are shown on some of the other samples, 30064 for example, but an easy fix if not included. I'm sure I wouldn't have noticed if they weren't shown on those other samples!

[No Decorum]

The aerials are shown on some of the other samples, 30064 for example, but an easy fix if not included. I'm sure I wouldn't have noticed if they weren't shown on those other samples!

Bachy’s good on aerials – the ones on the 37s are astonishingly resilient for such a tiny part.

[dibber25]

The aerials are shown on some of the other samples, 30064 for example, but an easy fix if not included. I'm sure I wouldn't have noticed if they weren't shown on those other samples!

Remember, these are livery samples, so they are only really provided to check the printed details. They may well be incomplete in other respects - indeed, only one of them has a working chassis - the others are without motors. (CJL)

[JSpencer]

Remember, these are livery samples, so they are only really provided to check the printed details. They may well be incomplete in other respects - indeed, only one of them has a working chassis - the others are without motors. (CJL)

Bachmann are pleased to announce their new super detailed push along range!

[dibber25]

The aerials are shown on some of the other samples, 30064 for example, but an easy fix if not included. I'm sure I wouldn't have noticed if they weren't shown on those other samples!

Apparently what's being viewed as aerials are actually stanchion-type handrails. The aerials would need to be about the thickness of a hair and the decision was taken to omit them. (CJL)

[BRs1962]

Apparently what's being viewed as aerials are actually stanchion-type handrails. The aerials would need to be about the thickness of a hair and the decision was taken to omit them. (CJL)

Ahh, ok, I stand corrected! I'd assumed aerials as some samples had them and some didn't! So will these be on all the of them now we know what I actually mean!

[dibber25]

Ahh, ok, I stand corrected! I'd assumed aerials as some samples had them and some didn't! So will these be on all the of them now we know what I actually mean!

Depends if they were on the real loco at the time depicted by the model. I believe they are one of the (many) variable details. (CJL)

[banburysaint]

I've had a quick look, but can't see this information anywhere, so thought I'd ask here to see if anyone may be able to help me.

 

According to the book 'Lines to Avonmouth' by Mike Vincent, three of these USA tanks went on loan to Avonmouth. There are two pictures on page 92 showing three locos, one photo is dated 24th March 1944 and shows two USA tanks on barges, the other picture is dated 30th August 1944 and shows a loco hauling some open wagons. The text on page 93 says the batch that were loaned out (Six to Liverpool, three to Manchester, one to Bromborough, two to Tilbury and three to Avonmouth) were sent out on the 1st June 1944. Based on these dates, the first photo implies that the locos in the barges were waiting to be unloaded having just arrivied in the country, so no guarentee that those two operated at Avonmouth. The other picture showing one that did operate at Avonmouth isn't quite clear enough for me to be sure of the number (the livery appears to match MR-101 with 'Transportation Corps U.S. Army' on the side, so that would be a good place to start for re-numbering).

 

So finally to my actual question; Does anyone know details of the three that apparently operated at Avonmouth Docks (numbers, livery, etc)?

 

Thanks in advance for any replies I get.

I don't understand why one would end up at Bromborough as it only had a small goods yard. Do you think that the book actually meant Port Sunlight a few stops down the line?

[AySea]

I don't understand why one would end up at Bromborough as it only had a small goods yard. Do you think that the book actually meant Port Sunlight a few stops down the line?

 

That could be possible. I don't know how accurate the book is on that as it focuses on the Avonmouth area and only really breifly mentions the USA Tanks.

[Steamport Southport]

Lever Brothers dock system was called Bromborough Docks and was very heavily used during World War Two. Probably so named to differ from the showpiece Port Sunlight Village. Some vague details are on the Bromborough Docks Wikipedia page.

 

 

Jason.

[banburysaint]

Thanks Jason, your explanation is logical.

[USA4472]

Regarding the BR green ones, I would direct anyone to look at KRB's excellent book, The Story of the Southern USA Tanks. There are some nice colour shots of DS235 and 6 as well as colour shots of 30064 and 73. You will be amazed how different the colour looks in varying light conditions. Given that 64,73, DS237 and DS238 were all repainted at Eastleigh, I'd be inclined to say they would all be the same green. The colour is described as Malachite but is clearly not Bullied Malachite that has been carried by 72 and the YUSA 75 in recent years. As has been pointed out the green is nearer Coaching Stock Green. Could it be the colour used on the DEMU's?

Edited February 25, 2016 by USA4472

[dibber25]

Regarding the BR green ones, I would direct anyone to look at KRB's excellent book, The Story of the Southern USA Tanks. There are some nice colour shots of DS235 and 6 as well as colour shots of 30064 and 73. You will be amazed how different the colour looks in varying light conditions. Given that 64,73, DS237 and DS238 were all repainted at Eastleigh, I'd be inclined to say they would all be the same green. The colour is described as Malachite but is clearly not Bullied Malachite that has been carried by 72 and the YUSA 75 in recent years. As has been pointed out the green is nearer Coaching Stock Green. Could it be the colour used on the DEMU's?

We've looked at dozens of images - we have that book and others - (and seen dozens of different shades of green) and, yes, the light conditions make the colours vary widely, as do the various different types of film on which the pictures were taken (and how well they reproduce in books). Frankly, it's impossible to know, or to judge, what is the 'correct' shade and whether it will look OK on the model. I understand we're going for the coaching stock green which is the colour used on all SR stock including the DEMUs (the Southern Region still called it malachite). Of course, Bachmann's coaching stock green has not been without its critics, so that's another story. I understand that we will be seeing revised livery samples, which is pretty unusual at this stage and demonstrates our and Bachmann's commitment to getting it right. The discussions about the green pale into insignificance alongside the debate about the golden ochre on No. 72. Maybe the full story can be told one day! (CJL)

[brushman47544]

I understand we're going for the coaching stock green which is the colour used on all SR stock including the DEMUs (the Southern Region still called it malachite). Of course, Bachmann's coaching stock green has not been without its critics, so that's another story.

Thank you for the update Chris. What I don't understand with Bachmann's coaching stock green is why they have persisted with their "too dark" version when most people seen to agree that the green on the Kernow Class 205 units is pretty good. Why haven't they adopted that colour for all southern green coaching stock when, as you say, they were all the same green.

 

If I don't like the green on 30064, at least I can make someone else happy by cancelling that version and buying 30067 in BR black with late crest instead.

[dibber25]

Thank you for the update Chris. What I don't understand with Bachmann's coaching stock green is why they have persisted with their "too dark" version when most people seen to agree that the green on the Kernow Class 205 units is pretty good. Why haven't they adopted that colour for all southern green coaching stock when, as you say, they were all the same green.

 

If I don't like the green on 30064, at least I can make someone else happy by cancelling that version and buying 30067 in BR black with late crest instead.

I await the sample with interest. (CJL)

[USA4472]

We've looked at dozens of images - we have that book and others - (and seen dozens of different shades of green) and, yes, the light conditions make the colours vary widely, as do the various different types of film on which the pictures were taken (and how well they reproduce in books). Frankly, it's impossible to know, or to judge, what is the 'correct' shade and whether it will look OK on the model. I understand we're going for the coaching stock green which is the colour used on all SR stock including the DEMUs (the Southern Region still called it malachite). Of course, Bachmann's coaching stock green has not been without its critics, so that's another story. I understand that we will be seeing revised livery samples, which is pretty unusual at this stage and demonstrates our and Bachmann's commitment to getting it right. The discussions about the green pale into insignificance alongside the debate about the golden ochre on No. 72. Maybe the full story can be told one day! (CJL)

Well I'd say the green on the sample of 64 looks pretty good to me for average lighting conditions and fits in with memories of the loco on the Bluebell. It was certainly a darker green than Blackmoor Vale. I've also dug out some old photos of 65 when first running on the KESR and the livery, although 'house style' looks suspiciously like the old BR livery with the insignia removed and a cast nameplate added. The green appearing very much like that on 64. Whatever, they look superb models. Well Done.

[TrevorP1]

Always admired the Worth Valley's decision to paint 72 in golden ochre. I have no need of a USA, much less in WVR livery but resistance is becoming very hard....

[lochlongside]

I await the sample with interest. (CJL)

Thank you for the various updates - my initial  orders are in but seeing the pictures I am further tempted .......

I have a quick query on deliveries - (assuming you have have reached the appropriate stage  and based on your experiences with the Sentinel)

1. Do you expect the first defined block of liveries  to be a trickle deliveries of single liveries at say 500 per time over 2-3 months or to come as a single block of say 3500 (7 liveries x500)?

2. Are the last three livery deliveries defined here likely likely to turn up at roughly the same time as the first batch of 7 defined liveries or do you expect the later and re-approval liveries to arrive say two or more months later than the liveries already defined?

 

As they say "....this is a non-contractual, non-binding provide for outline planning purposes only request   - dates are not required"!! (and neither are the relative order sequence for livery delivery).

I just want to know a sort of general expectation so I can increase my order safe in the knowledge that it will not be showing up too much in the monthly modelling budget !! especially considering how Hornby hammered it last Xmas despite my best planning

[dibber25]

Thank you for the various updates - my initial  orders are in but seeing the pictures I am further tempted .......

I have a quick query on deliveries - (assuming you have have reached the appropriate stage  and based on your experiences with the Sentinel)

1. Do you expect the first defined block of liveries  to be a trickle deliveries of single liveries at say 500 per time over 2-3 months or to come as a single block of say 3500 (7 liveries x500)?

2. Are the last three livery deliveries defined here likely likely to turn up at roughly the same time as the first batch of 7 defined liveries or do you expect the later and re-approval liveries to arrive say two or more months later than the liveries already defined?

 

As they say "....this is a non-contractual, non-binding provide for outline planning purposes only request   - dates are not required"!! (and neither are the relative order sequence for livery delivery).

I just want to know a sort of general expectation so I can increase my order safe in the knowledge that it will not be showing up too much in the monthly modelling budget !! especially considering how Hornby hammered it last Xmas despite my best planning

As far as I know, we are required by Bachmann to take ALL the models in one batch. Whether they will all be produced and delivered in one batch, I have my doubts. Elsewhere, on Bachmann's listing released yesterday, they are shown as 'in production', however the second livery samples of the green and brown ones have yet to be seen or approved. In my PERSONAL view, it is likely the black ones will arrive before the coloured ones, as that's how the samples were received. That's a 'best guess'. (CJL)