RMweb Gold DaveF Posted June 23, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2014 I found a couple, but none with the complex curves needed for cabsides. Or at least none that I've found. Fox tell me that it's on their 'to-do' list, so I'm waiting in breathless anticipation. But if you know of someone who does full loco lining (curves etc) please let me know. Now I understand the problem better. In the past I have spent many "happy" hours bending transfers and also trying to use a bow pen on very awkward curves. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffy2 Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 It's Southern I'm after - but it may be possible to use a white-black-white lining and then paint over the outer white line to give a black panel edge. I've done that in 7mm but not 4mm. Fox are the likeliest (and they make waterslide) but their present range is Bulleid rather than Maunsell, so I'm keen to see their new additions. They provide a really good loco lining set for some locos. I'd appreciate some expert advice as to whether complex lining patterns are possible/easy with Pressfix. From the not-very-helpful instructions on the HMRS site it looks tricky to line up and overlap separate pieces of lining. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold DaveF Posted June 23, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2014 It's Southern I'm after - but it may be possible to use a white-black-white lining and then paint over the outer white line to give a black panel edge. I've done that in 7mm but not 4mm. Fox are the likeliest (and they make waterslide) but their present range is Bulleid rather than Maunsell, so I'm keen to see their new additions. They provide a really good loco lining set for some locos. I'd appreciate some expert advice as to whether complex lining patterns are possible/easy with Pressfix. From the not-very-helpful instructions on the HMRS site it looks tricky to line up and overlap separate pieces of lining. I think it can be done - I have joined bits of lining on Midland locos in the past, but I usually end up touching in with a very fine paintbrush. I've managed to adjust curves for splashers and cab sides but not always perfectly - but I have to accept that I could never get a perfect finish no matter how hard I tried. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 The question is, what would you do if the supply of kits dried up? Ebay will be selling kits for years to come, no worry of them drying up Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalKat Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Smiffy .... http://www.hmrs.org.uk/transfers/transferdetails.php?transferid=1008 and in the details/remarks ......... OTHER APLICATIONSThe sheet will have many uses for locos other than LNER. In particular, the broad black single edged lining and black and white boiler bands will be useful for many SR locos, along with HMRS Transfer Sheet 9. Many pre-grouping applications will also be found. I think Smiffy's search for transfers shows that people are still building Locos, I know I am. I can sympathise with problems such as eyesight and so on as after a car accident some years back, I lost the use of my left arm. In the twenty odd years since I recovered a lot of it, but I am still in the situation of 1 1/2 hands. It just takes longer to do things - that's all. Plus of course my eyesight isn't what it was back then either As long as we buy kits.... people will make them - if not we'll *whispers* scratch build! Emma Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Smiffy - HMRS do plenty of curves and corners in their BR/LNWR sheets, I don't see why they wouldn't do something similar in LNER type...... ..... in fact http://www.hmrs.org.uk/transfers/transferdetails.php?transferid=1035 Emma Although black and white that is where the similarity ends. It's Southern I'm after - but it may be possible to use a white-black-white lining and then paint over the outer white line to give a black panel edge. I've done that in 7mm but not 4mm. Fox are the likeliest (and they make waterslide) but their present range is Bulleid rather than Maunsell, so I'm keen to see their new additions. They provide a really good loco lining set for some locos. I'd appreciate some expert advice as to whether complex lining patterns are possible/easy with Pressfix. From the not-very-helpful instructions on the HMRS site it looks tricky to line up and overlap separate pieces of lining. I would suggest having a practicing with a lining bow pen. The honing is the most important bit and there is plenty of info on it, use gloss enamel and you will be surprised how well you will do. SR lining is quite easy with the pen, rule the white and then use the pen to put the black next to the white and then fill rest with brush. boiler bands are easy put parallel lines onto black painted magic tape, transfer paper etc. If building kits do not put the bands on when building too thick anyway. Add them at painting stage, when varnished they are well stuck on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffy2 Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Thanks, KalKat, but Pressfix only again. I tried Pressfix back in the 80s. It was a disaster... I'm actually in a halfway situation, at the moment I'm repainting and slightly modifying GBL locos, and buying up cheap RTR Southern stuff and repainting/tidying it up. It's been a long time, so I'm working my way back in. I'm just surprised at the lack of products to help me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted June 23, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 23, 2014 One of the joys of the hobby is the great diversity. It is possible to build a complete model railway straight from the RTR suppliers. Even buildings and people can be obtained ready to plant. OK, maybe a wire or two needs connecting but the input from the modeller can be virtually nothing. It is also possible to spend 20 years building a single loco from scratch, down to every last rivet. Modelling is very much a "catch all" phrase. Some people buy models and some people make models. Most do both to some degree. We also have a wide range of views as to what the "end" product should be. I find myself agreeing with Kenton. I have friends who will spend ages making a jig to produce a particular component. That jig is, to some extent, the end product as the components may sit in a draw awaiting use for years! So the end product can be anything from a bent bit of brass with a hole in it to a fully operational layout like Buckingham, where pretty much everything was scratchbuilt by one person. The only people who get the wrong idea about the hobby are the ones who try to tell you that what you are doing is somehow wrong, or has less validity than what they think you should be doing. Having said that, I am not sure that just buying a model and opening the box is what I would call modelling. To me, that is collecting as that is exactly what collectors do. Even that is simply another branch of the hobby with its own ways and techniques and is equally as valid an approach to the hobby as any other branch. That remains the case until such time as you do something to it, then it becomes modelling. To me, modelling requires some input in terms of use of tools and skills from the modeller, even if it is just a spot of weathering and adding the details from a pack. That is no more or less modelling than assembling a kit with only a few parts. It may be quite simple and modelling at a fairly basic level but nonetheless, to me it is modelling. Mind you, having opened some RTR boxes, they needed tools and skills just to get the sodding things open so perhaps I have shot myself in the foot yet again........... Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffy2 Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Has anyone used one of these? http://www.peterspoerermodelengineers.com/90275/info.php?p=14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Yes I have but I find a bow pen much better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted June 23, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 23, 2014 Has anyone used one of these? http://www.peterspoerermodelengineers.com/90275/info.php?p=14 No but it looks very similar in design and operation to the Bob Moore lining pen. I have one and have used it but not a great deal. I have seen some fine results obtained from such pens but I haven't used mine often enough to comment too much. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted June 23, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2014 Saw a lady demonstrating one a few years ago at Reading, she made a fine job with it....so much so I bought one. Unfortunately, it's still in the box in a drawer. One day.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Having said that, I am not sure that just buying a model and opening the box is what I would call modelling. To me, that is collecting as that is exactly what collectors do. Even that is simply another branch of the hobby with its own ways and techniques and is equally as valid an approach to the hobby as any other branch. That remains the case until such time as you do something to it, then it becomes modelling. To me, modelling requires some input in terms of use of tools and skills from the modeller, even if it is just a spot of weathering and adding the details from a pack. That is no more or less modelling than assembling a kit with only a few parts. It may be quite simple and modelling at a fairly basic level but nonetheless, to me it is modelling. Mind you, having opened some RTR boxes, they needed tools and skills just to get the sodding things open so perhaps I have shot myself in the foot yet again........... Tony Tony Perhaps in this case the modelling aspect is what you do with the item, eg set it into the scene and then do the scenic work around it. But its not a kit !! and you are not building it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 It's Southern I'm after - but it may be possible to use a white-black-white lining and then paint over the outer white line to give a black panel edge. I've done that in 7mm but not 4mm. Fox are the likeliest (and they make waterslide) but their present range is Bulleid rather than Maunsell, so I'm keen to see their new additions. They provide a really good loco lining set for some locos. I'd appreciate some expert advice as to whether complex lining patterns are possible/easy with Pressfix. From the not-very-helpful instructions on the HMRS site it looks tricky to line up and overlap separate pieces of lining. All HMRS and Modelmaster LNER lining on the Locos, the same can be used for SR too , practise on a old body first Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted June 24, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 24, 2014 Tony Perhaps in this case the modelling aspect is what you do with the item, eg set it into the scene and then do the scenic work around it. But its not a kit !! and you are not building it I have seen some RTR locos that have been drastically improved by the addition of a crew, fire irons, real coal lamps (not to everyones taste!) and most effectively, some superb attention to the finish, such as subtle and accurate weathering. It may not be building things but I am happy to call that sort of work modelling. It may be at a basic level compared to having built the thing first but it is at least a step or two on the modelling ladder. To many people, that may be as far up the ladder as they wish to go and I say good luck to them. Although I personally feel that anybody who hasn't experienced the satisfaction of making things for themselves is missing out on a big chunk of the fun of the hobby. I have seen some very good layouts indeed where the locos and stock have been RTR. Appropriate locos and stock, marshalled into realistic trains, all finished nicely with convincing weathering. I have also seen some layouts with kit or scratchbuilt locos and stock that looked poor, due to the design and execution of the layout, the finish on the locos and stock and the way it was being operated. Best of all are the few layouts around that have both. A good deal of kt/scratchbuilding, a convincing scene and realistic operation. It doesn't happen very often but when it does, that is the sort of thing I get all giddy over! Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted June 24, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 24, 2014 The question is, what would you do if the supply of kits dried up? Scratchbuild. I did when there were no "Modern Image" kits, just now everyone has the same models as me because the RTR gang have made them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted June 24, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 24, 2014 All HMRS and Modelmaster LNER lining on the Locos, the same can be used for SR too , practise on a old body first 3.jpg 6.jpg Anyone know of any young ladies who want to practice on an old body.......I'm up for it. :nono: :nono: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 This topic seems to have moved from the "future of kit building" to "what is modelling?". Should there be a differentiation in how we describe ourselves as we aren't all doing the same thing. An interest in railway models is all that connects some of us. How that interest manifests itself varies widely. Modelling (in this context) is about making things. Someone who attends shows and reads the model railway magazines but stops at that is an enthusiast. Those that buy models, either RTR or as kits, but doesn't do anything with them is a collector. People that make, modify, adapt and create things are model makers or modellers. Within that there are degrees of modelling. Someone who uses RTP track and building together with RTR stock on a layout where he has laid the scenery is doing less modelling than someone who scratch builds everything. I have a friend that used to go coarse fishing. To many who didn't know better it was just fishing, but to him it was a different sport to fly fishing, sea angling, etc. with different skills, techniques and knowledge. To me this hobby is similar. We are all interested in model railways, but we aren't all modellers. When I am asked what my hobbies/pastimes are I nowadays reply by saying model maker. That usually gets a more interested and positive response than when I used to say model railways. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 billbedford, on 23 Jun 2014 - 12:29, said: The question is, what would you do if the supply of kits dried up? Start designing my own - a bit like why most kit designers started (nothing available: learn to do it yourself) You may not have that choice. The production of the basic components for kits lies in the hands of a handful of companies. There are, for instance only three companies involved in photo etching for the model trades, and if anyone of those should fail, or decide they no longer wanted to be involved with model, then there would be real capacity problems for those that were left. The situation with specialist components, such as wheels and motors. All 4mm wheels are made by one-man companies, and the delivery times of some ranges show just how close these people are running to their maximum capacity. As for the elderly Mr Mashima, who knows how long he can keep supplying motors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 You may not have that choice. The production of the basic components for kits lies in the hands of a handful of companies. There are, for instance only three companies involved in photo etching for the model trades, and if anyone of those should fail, or decide they no longer wanted to be involved with model, then there would be real capacity problems for those that were left. The situation with specialist components, such as wheels and motors. All 4mm wheels are made by one-man companies, and the delivery times of some ranges show just how close these people are running to their maximum capacity. As for the elderly Mr Mashima, who knows how long he can keep supplying motors. I remember when etching brass was a process of alchemy and not really commercial. I have photoetched PCB boards in the past. It was done then and could be done again. I have seen wheels produced on a lathe - I haven't a lathe or a clue how to use one - but I or someone else could do it. Whatever happened before Mashima? The point here is that it is nothing beyond the capability of man to learn - nothing as complicated as rocket science or brain surgery - nothing irreplaceable. Someone would come forward to supply wheels, motors, etches - that supply might be at a price unacceptable to many but does that mean the end of kits? No and certainly not in my lifetime. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 ..... it is nothing beyond the capability of man to learn .... Particularly when it comes to circumventing rules, or avoiding tax, or things like that..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger5591 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I enjoy making kits but I don't enjoy all the pallava you have to go through to get some kit makers to sell you their product - unanswered emails, no-one picks up the phone, answer-phone messages never returned, no reply to letters ..... I can understand a one-man business wanting to limit time spent on enquiries, and therefore not having a presence on the web - no gripes about that. But for those who go to the trouble of building and running a website that offers product for sale and a cheery home page saying 'contact me to order', that's a commitment to deal with the public that isn't being honoured in quite a few cases. Having said that, there are also kit makers that are a joy to deal with - may they prosper and thrive (and extend their product ranges)! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGRL Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I am somewhat saddened by the profusion of 3D printed models that appear. The focus seems now to be more towards the computer efficient rather than making things with your HANDS. I note that many young men these days act more like girls and focus on baking cakes and having the right labels on their clothes. I am getting old, I guess! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I suppose now is not the time to recommend Elnett hairspray, for that superior hold. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaulCheffus Posted June 25, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 25, 2014 I am somewhat saddened by the profusion of 3D printed models that appear. The focus seems now to be more towards the computer efficient rather than making things with your HANDS. I note that many young men these days act more like girls and focus on baking cakes and having the right labels on their clothes. I am getting old, I guess! Hi And whats wrong with baking cakes? I quite enjoy the challenge of baking something new, even more so if I can make it sugar free so I can actually eat it. Cheers Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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