Dave F's photos - ongoing - more added each day

[AberdeenBill]

J140 Two different ex-GWR 21-tonners there. The nearer one might be a Loco Coal one, whilst the other has at least one end door (white stripe visible) and three side doors. I spent a day been taken around Toton about 8 years later; I don't think I'd ever seen so many wagons together.

 

How was the brake van attached to an unfitted freight leaving a hump yard?   Was the brake van run over the hump and (hopefully gently) attached or would the train shunt forward to attach the van?

 

Thanks,

Bill

[russ p]

In Tees up yard the train was drawn into the departure sidings and a van was gravitated from some inclined sidings called a kip and attached to the rear of a train

[35A]

 

Now I know my experience of HST's in their early years is limited to the Western, but was it usual for an East Coast HST to have two separate dining vehicles?

 

 

When they were first delivered the ECML HSTs had a TRUK (Trailer Restaurant Unclassified with Kitchen - 405xx series) and a TRSB (Trailer Restaurant Second with Buffet - 404xx series) in the formation. The former was usually formed between the second class and first class vehicles and the latter in the middle of the second class vehicles. Fairly quickly they were reformed and the catering vehicles placed adjacent to each other.

 

In the early 1980s it was decided to dispense with the kitchen car and use the TRSB for everything. Most of the TRSBs were reclassified TRUB (Trailer Restaurant Unclassified with Buffet - renumbered into the 407xx series). The TRUKs were withdrawn and replaced with a second class (around the same time reclassified to standard class) vehicle. Many of the TRUKs were modified, rewired, renumbered and added into the WCML loco-hauled catering fleet (100xx series). Vehicle 40513 became the Executive Saloon, which could be hired and inserted into any HST formation for corporate use (or, at least, that was the intention - it wasn't used much!). IIRC a couple of others were also held back, although I forget why exactly.

Edited March 1, 2017 by 35A

[Swindon 123]

When they were first delivered the ECML HSTs had a TRUK (Trailer Restaurant Unclassified with Kitchen - 405xx series) and a TRSB (Trailer Restaurant Second with Buffet - 404xx series) in the formation. The former was usually formed between the second class and first class vehicles and the latter in the middle of the second class vehicles. Fairly quickly they were reformed and the catering vehicles placed adjacent to each other.

 

In the early 1980s it was decided to dispense with the kitchen car and use the TRSB for everything. Most of the TRSBs were reclassified TRUB (Trailer Restaurant Unclassified with Buffet - renumbered into the 407xx series). The TRUKs were withdrawn and replaced with a second class (around the same time reclassified to standard class) vehicle. Many of the TRUKs were modified, rewired, renumbered and added into the WCML loco-hauled catering fleet (100xx series). Vehicle 40513 became the Executive Saloon, which could be hired and inserted into any HST formation for corporate use (or, at least, that was the intention - it wasn't used much!). IIRC a couple of others were also held back, although I forget why exactly.

Here are a couple of shots of the Executive Saloon at Bounds Green. The first one is not long after conversion in December 1983. The second a bit later in April 1984..

 

BBR-11-127 by Paul James, on Flickr

CBR-5-103 by Paul James, on Flickr

 

Paul J.

[The Johnster]

The Guard should travel in the rear cab of a light engine movement.

 

Unless the loco is single manned under the 1969 single manning agreement with the unions, i.e. a light engine proceeding from a shed to pick up a train for a single manned duty without a secondman/driver's assistant/assistant driver, in which case the guard acted as secondman and rode in the right hand seat of the front cab.  This was allowed over a distance of up to 15 miles leaving a depot to pick up a train, or any distance having dropped a train off and proceeding light engine to depot.  I secondmanned a Western back to Canton from Reading in this way once.  It was not allowed depot to depot.

 

The guard also travels in the rear cab of the loco of a fully fitted train without a guard's van, irrespective of whether the train is single manned or not.  We rarely did, though.

[keefer]

The TRSB weren't reclassified into TRUB,the TRUB existed already as a single catering vehicle where there was demand for hot meals (like a modern RB).

As the full-dining service was cut back, it was the TRUB that was the mainstay of the ECML (and GWML?).

The TRSB were used solo in some WR sets and also the NE-SW ones

[67A]

Hi Dave,

 

Longingly looking at the shots from Toton and the 1960's flower power song 'where have all the flowers wagons gone' springs to mind. You just can't fathom things out at times its just a sad reality. The shot with the 4F is very timely as I have recently bought some Hornby coke hoppers and those wooden rails are a godsend for colour matching!

 

As for the 20's livery, when I worked at Toton TMD in the 70's the variation of positioning these was very haphazard with numbers on the cabsides above and below the double arrow also on the bodyside adjacent to the cab, difficult for us fitters trying to locate our job if approaching from the rear.

Thanks for some great memories Dave.

[caradoc]

Interesting that the leading class 20 in C4580 has its number above the double-arrow, whilst the following loco has them reversed. The former is the standard application and I don't actually recall seeing any 20s, post-renumbering, in the style of the second loco, although I do remember some of the early blue applications in the D-era having them that way. I wonder if it's one of the Scottish ones that migrated south?

 

C4580; Also an interesting variation on the headcode displayed by 20193, 0..0 rather than 0000.

[45125]

When they were first delivered the ECML HSTs had a TRUK (Trailer Restaurant Unclassified with Kitchen - 405xx series) and a TRSB (Trailer Restaurant Second with Buffet - 404xx series) in the formation. The former was usually formed between the second class and first class vehicles and the latter in the middle of the second class vehicles. Fairly quickly they were reformed and the catering vehicles placed adjacent to each other.

 

In the early 1980s it was decided to dispense with the kitchen car and use the TRSB for everything. Most of the TRSBs were reclassified TRUB (Trailer Restaurant Unclassified with Buffet - renumbered into the 407xx series). The TRUKs were withdrawn and replaced with a second class (around the same time reclassified to standard class) vehicle. Many of the TRUKs were modified, rewired, renumbered and added into the WCML loco-hauled catering fleet (100xx series). Vehicle 40513 became the Executive Saloon, which could be hired and inserted into any HST formation for corporate use (or, at least, that was the intention - it wasn't used much!). IIRC a couple of others were also held back, although I forget why exactly

 

3 TRUKs (TRFK has they had become) were retained, one for the Yorkshire Pullman, one for the Tyne-Tees Pullman and one as spare. 40501, 40505 and 40511 from memory.

 

The TRSBs were originally numbered 400xx, but became 404xx to avoid a clash with class 40s when the TRSBs were put on TOPS/POIS.

[Enterprisingwestern]

Hi, Dave. A great collection of photos from Toton and Long Eaton. Those from Toton show just how much freight on the railway has changed. No longer have we got those short wheelbase wagons and vans covered in dust and filth bouncing around the railway network! How great to see wagons such as the ex LMS coke wagon in J151 hauled by a typical example of a class 4f working tender first.

 

With warmest regards,

 

Rob.

 

This is where I expand my wagon knowledge, I thought the ex LMS coke hoppers didn't have the central gusset plate, were there some which did?

 

Mike.

[35A]

The TRSB weren't reclassified into TRUB,the TRUB existed already as a single catering vehicle where there was demand for hot meals (like a modern RB).

As the full-dining service was cut back, it was the TRUB that was the mainstay of the ECML (and GWML?).

The TRSB were used solo in some WR sets and also the NE-SW ones

 

That rings a bell now. Thanks. I was trying to find my pre-1984 coaching stock books, to refresh my memory, but I seem to have mislaid them. Didn't the displaced TRSBs go to the Western (or were they used in the NE-SW sets)? I've got the dimmest of memories of those details!

 

Also, the TRUKs that ended up as WCML RFMs were numbered in the 102xx series (the first ones in that series, the later ones were new build), not the 100xx series, as I stated earlier.

[lanchester]

Here are a couple of shots of the Executive Saloon at Bounds Green. The first one is not long after conversion in December 1983. The second a bit later in April 1984..

 

BBR-11-127 by Paul James, on Flickr

CBR-5-103 by Paul James, on Flickr

 

Paul J.

I've met some oily executives in my time - but needing to go through a 'de-greasing van' after contact - eeughh!

[35A]

3 TRUKs (TRFK has they had become) were retained, one for the Yorkshire Pullman, one for the Tyne-Tees Pullman and one as spare. 40501, 40505 and 40511 from memory.

 

The TRSBs were originally numbered 400xx, but became 404xx to avoid a clash with class 40s when the TRSBs were put on TOPS/POIS.

 

Thanks for that. The numbers that you quote sound familiar to me, from distant memory. I'd forgotten about the initial renumbering, as well - you are (of course) right.

[Swindon 123]

This is where I expand my wagon knowledge, I thought the ex LMS coke hoppers didn't have the central gusset plate, were there some which did?

 

Mike.

 

If you look carefully Mike I think you will find that it is a BR one. It has roller bearings, and looks to have solid ends.

 

Paul J.

[35A]

FYI - I just tried to edit an earlier posting. Save Changes is not actioning and it isn't possible to delete the warning message, in this instance. I haven't time to find a work around at the moment, so will have to leave the strikethrough of my incorrect info (re: TRUBs) in my original post. Apologies.

[The Johnster]

Hi Dave,

 

Longingly looking at the shots from Toton and the 1960's flower power song 'where have all the flowers wagons gone' springs to mind. You just can't fathom things out at times its just a sad reality. The shot with the 4F is very timely as I have recently bought some Hornby coke hoppers and those wooden rails are a godsend for colour matching!

 

As for the 20's livery, when I worked at Toton TMD in the 70's the variation of positioning these was very haphazard with numbers on the cabsides above and below the double arrow also on the bodyside adjacent to the cab, difficult for us fitters trying to locate our job if approaching from the rear.

Thanks for some great memories Dave.

 

 

 

Young girls picked them, every one...  I think I remember reading somewhere years ago that the song actually dates back to the American Civil War, or is based on one from that period, or something, but I could be wrong. I am the god of going OT!

 

And sometimes OTT...

Edited March 1, 2017 by The Johnster

[DaveF]

Liverpool Street and Shenfield today.

 

The second and third photos were taken while I was en route to a meeting in London (I had made a detour from my hotel).

 

The only thing I remember about the meeting was a senior civil servant who informed us that Hadrian's Wall is still the boundary between England and Scotland.

 

I hadn't realised that I lived in Scotland until then as I had always thought that Northumberland was in England.

 

I stopped listening after that.

 

 

Liverpool Street east side Dec 79 C4905

 

 

Liverpool Street entrance and Great Eastern Hotel 20th Oct 93 C19159

 

 

Liverpool Street concourse 20th Oct 93 C19160

 

 

Shenfield Class 309 Clacton to Liverpool St Jan 79 C4270

 

 

Shenfield 309626 Liverpool St to Clacton Jan 79 C4273

 

 

David

Edited March 1, 2017 by DaveF

[Market65]

Hi, Dave. It's nice to be back.

Today's photo's are really good, and I like the one of the Liverpool Street station entrance and Great Eastern Hotel. Then in the last two photos at Shenfield, there can be seen two filthy class 309's. The bad winter clearly did not stop them from going about their daily work.

 

With warmest regards,

 

Rob.

[jonny777]

C4905 - Those were the days; class 306s on suburban services and Mk1 buffets on Norwich trains.

 

Farmhouse Grill for me please.

[jonny777]

[keefer]

FYI - I just tried to edit an earlier posting. Save Changes is not actioning and it isn't possible to delete the warning message, in this instance. I haven't time to find a work around at the moment, so will have to leave the strikethrough of my incorrect info (re: TRUBs) in my original post. Apologies.

 

i meant to include in my post that the TRUB were 403xx and later became 407xx when they went to TRFB (no real changes apart from being designated 1st class). They were always recognisable as they only had 3 full-size saloon windows, the TRUK and TRSB had four.

The NE-SW sets usually had only one TF, a TRSB and i forget how many TS.

Some TRSB later became TRB by conversion to 1st class with 2+1 seating.

Any other major buffet car changes came in the privatised era.

 

(apologies for the continued diversion Dave)

[DaveF]

I've just noticed that I have another photo at Shenfield ready to post, I missed it out earlier so here it is.

 

 

Shenfield 307130 ecs Nov 75 C2528

 

 

David

[jonny777]

 

The NE-SW sets usually had only one TF, a TRSB and i forget how many TS.

 

I think the original NE/SW HSTs were 2+7, so they would have had 5 TS, or strictly speaking 4TS and a TGS.

[lmsforever]

The photo of Liverpool St concourse made me realise how long its been rebuilt ,shall be passing through there on the 6th April on way to an RNLI meeting at Southend this time on the end of the pier.

[mullie]

I've just noticed that I have another photo at Shenfield ready to post, I missed it out earlier so here it is.

 

 

Shenfield 307130 ecs Nov 75 C2528.jpg

Shenfield 307130 ecs Nov 75 C2528

 

 

David

Nostalgia's not what it used to be!