Hattons announce 14xx / 48xx / 58xx

[melmerby]

Hi, would I be right in thinking that as my GWR 58xx is not fitted with Auto gear it would never have worked with a Auto/Rail Coach?   I believe the GWR 48xx's are out next

I think some 58s were retrofitted with gear later on.

Although maybe my memory is playing up?

 

Keith

Edited January 14, 2017 by melmerby

[Coppercap]

Hi, would I be right in thinking that as my GWR 58xx is not fitted with Auto gear it would never have worked with a Auto/Rail Coach?   I believe the GWR 48xx's are out next

Yes, the 58xx was not auto-fitted, as a result they were less versatile tha the 48xx. It's always possible a 58xx might have worked with an auto coach, but only if it hauled it and ran round it for the return trip.

[tomparryharry]

Hi, would I be right in thinking that as my GWR 58xx is not fitted with Auto gear it would never have worked with a Auto/Rail Coach?   I believe the GWR 48xx's are out next

On the Penygraig branch, the steam service was 4871 (1471), and an autocoach, sometimes with a trailer. When the 48 was not available, Llantrisant shed deputised with a pannier.

 

Ian

[melmerby]

I think some 58s were retrofitted with gear later on.

Although maybe my memory is playing up?

 

Keith

 

Yes, the 58xx was not auto-fitted, as a result they were less versatile tha the 48xx. It's always possible a 58xx might have worked with an auto coach, but only if it hauled it and ran round it for the return trip.

I was probably mistaken, I cannot find any reference to 58XXs being retrofitted with gear, some did get ATC however, although not originally fitted with it.

 

Keith

[Opelsi]

Very much looking forward to getting my mitts on the 'Great Western' version - wonder when - can't wait.!

 

I fitted a new Bachmann 36-568 decoder to my Heljan 1369 yesterday and it seamed very good so may go for another one of these chips (Zimo origin) for this model too.

Edited January 16, 2017 by Opelsi

[jwd]

 Only a feedback controller is best avoided. However,if in doubt  then change to a modern one such as Gaugemaster. I believe Rails have an offer atm.

Hornbys HM controllers are feedback controllers.

[Hilux5972]

Hornbys HM controllers are feedback controllers.

I thought it was only the HM4000 that was the feedback one, since it had the extra settings on it m. I was under the impression that HM2000 was just 2 standard controllers in one case.

[Legend]

I thought it was only the HM4000 that was the feedback one, since it had the extra settings on it m. I was under the impression that HM2000 was just 2 standard controllers in one case.

If you read the description in the latest catalogue it says the HM2000 has compensation, so it keeps locos at a steady speed. It doesn't directly say feedback but I think that's the impression I'm getting. It would be interesting to find out someone's experiences of running the loco on these controllers which ,coming from the main manufacturer of UK trains ,must be very numerous out there.

 

Looking at Gaugemasters latest adverts they now do make distinction ( of maybe it's me just more alert to it) of normal controllers, feedback controllers and ones with simulation. From this I take it that those with simulation are not feedback controllers , at least if you don't use the simulation! My own are Gaugemaster DS from about 20 years ago , which I think I'm correct in saying are not feedback.

[Paul_sterling]

Thanks for the info guys, I run both hm2000 and hm4000 so it sounds like both, despite being fairly recent (last ten-fifteen years) are not suitable for Coreless,

 

Paul

[Ian Hargrave]

If you read the description in the latest catalogue it says the HM2000 has compensation, so it keeps locos at a steady speed. It doesn't directly say feedback but I think that's the impression I'm getting. It would be interesting to find out someone's experiences of running the loco on these controllers which ,coming from the main manufacturer of UK trains ,must be very numerous out there.

Looking at Gaugemasters latest adverts they now do make distinction ( of maybe it's me just more alert to it) of normal controllers, feedback controllers and ones with simulation. From this I take it that those with simulation are not feedback controllers , at least if you don't use the simulation! My own are Gaugemaster DS from about 20 years ago , which I think I'm correct in saying are not feedback.

You are right....the Gaugemaster DS is not feedback even though it has simulation.My advice would be to contact Gaugemaster themselves for advice.I promise you you will not go wrong.

[DCB]

Finally found out how much a Hattons 14XX will pull, 5 B set coaches on the level, 3 B set coaches up a 1 in 36 ish gradient round a 3rd radius curve.  Performance on variable voltage OnTrack and H&M Safety Minor controllers is very smooth. Vastly better than the Hornby 14XX,   The original Airfix versions were very good when brand new.  

The Hattons is more sensitive to dodgy track than the earlier models derailing where the older ones bounced and wobbled along, but with 6 wheel pickup it kept going over dirty track.   It really does not like hollows in the track, even 0.5 mm will prevent it starting with a decent load unless it sets back.

I'm still plotting a 6 wheel drive chassis for a 58XX to do station pilot and branch freight work but the 14XX has ticked the boxes for Auto and local passenger turns.

Edited January 20, 2017 by DavidCBroad

[JSpencer]

Finally found out how much a Hattons 14XX will pull, 5 B set coaches on the level, 3 B set coaches up a 1 in 36 ish gradient round a 3rd radius curve.  Performance on variable voltage OnTrack and H&M Safety Minor controllers is very smooth. Vastly better than the Hornby 14XX,   The original Airfix versions were very good when brand new but the lack of traction tyres means the performance is nothing like as good.  The Hattons is more sensitive to dodgy track than the earlier models derailing where the older ones bounced and wobbled along, but with 6 wheel pickup it kept going over dirty track.   It really does not like hollows in the track, even 0.5 mm will prevent it starting with a decent load unless it sets back.

I'm still plotting a 6 wheel drive chassis for a 58XX to do station pilot and branch freight work but the 14XX has ticked the boxes for Auto and local passenger turns.

 

Are the rear pair of wheels sprung?

[81E]

58XX is excellent can't wait for the 48XX

Edited January 22, 2017 by 81E

[DCB]

Are the rear pair of wheels sprung?

No.   No springs  and as a result the loco does not like hollows in the track or humps, it slips in hollows and derails over humps, however it doesn't jump about like a demented kangaroo like the Hornby 14XX which stops dead on humps anyway.

[Paul_sterling]

No.   No springs  and as a result the loco does not like hollows in the track or humps, it slips in hollows and derails over humps, however it doesn't jump about like a demented kangaroo like the Hornby 14XX which stops dead on humps anyway.

 

No bad thing, as you say, the Hornby 14xx bucks like mad when it hits a dead spot, no doubt a stay alive system or a flywheel drive would have alleviated that, but never mind, with any luck the DJM 58/14 could see the Hornby 14 moved into the Railroad range. 

 

Paul. 

[Hilux5972]

No bad thing, as you say, the Hornby 14xx bucks like mad when it hits a dead spot, no doubt a stay alive system or a flywheel drive would have alleviated that, but never mind, with any luck the DJM 58/14 could see the Hornby 14 moved into the Railroad range.

 

Paul.

Have you seen this years Hornby announcements? The 14xx has gone to the Railroad range.

[JSpencer]

No.   No springs  and as a result the loco does not like hollows in the track or humps, it slips in hollows and derails over humps, however it doesn't jump about like a demented kangaroo like the Hornby 14XX which stops dead on humps anyway.

 

Oh, rather odd considering the Beattie Well tank does have these. I find the J94 has very fine flanges mixed with a very solid chassis, such that on parts of my big modular layout (10 years old), like certain set track points and the odd 2nd radias curve in dock areas, it derails. The O2 and Well tank cope with these easily as does the USA and sentinal tanks.

[The Johnster]

I was probably mistaken, I cannot find any reference to 58XXs being retrofitted with gear, some did get ATC however, although not originally fitted with it.

 

Keith

 

Reference to retrofitting suggests confusion with the 4575/55xx class small prairies fitted with auto gear for work in the South Wales and Plymouth areas under BR (WR) auspices.  Other locos fitted from new were the 54xx pannier tanks and the smaller wheeled 64xx variant produced by Bachmann; a 74xx to all intents and purposes identical to the 64xx but not auto fitted was also produced.  Prior to the introduction of the 48xx (which were later renumbered as the more familiar 14xx to release the 48xx series for oil fired 28xx variants), several classes of small pannier tank, the 'Metro' 2-4-0T, and the '517' 0-4-2T which the 48/58xx is a development of did auto work, taking over trailers from withdrawn steam railmotors and of course working with the ex-railmotors when they were converted to auto trailers.  Potted history lesson over for tonight...

[Tom F]

Has anyone renumbered their's yet? If so, how did they get on with the recess?

Edited January 26, 2017 by 9793

[Adrock]

Does anyone know if a 14xx was used on the Dolgellau - Barmouth shuttle in the 1950s and early 60's? If so, does anyone have any info in terms of number, shed base etc? Or can they point me to any pictures please?

 

Thanks.

[Captain Kernow]

Does anyone know if a 14xx was used on the Dolgellau - Barmouth shuttle in the 1950s and early 60's? If so, does anyone have any info in terms of number, shed base etc? Or can they point me to any pictures please?

 

Thanks.

Yes, this appears to be the case. A caption to a photo of 5809 at Barmouth station in June 1957 on page 60 of 'Return to Pwhelli, please - along the Cambrian Coast' (Foxline Publishing, now part of Book Law Publishing) says that during the late 1940s until approximately the mid-1950s, the 14XX type of loco did provide the main type of motive power for these local services. There is a photo of 5801 above on the same page, also at Barmouth, in 1955.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Captain Kernow

[coachmann]

Does anyone know if a 14xx was used on the Dolgellau - Barmouth shuttle in the 1950s and early 60's? If so, does anyone have any info in terms of number, shed base etc? Or can they point me to any pictures please?

 

Thanks.

Auto-fitted 1465 was one such loco used for Dolgelley-Barmouth workings, allocated to Penmaenpool engine depot and was a Machynlleth 89C loco.

 

5809 was non auto fitted as was 5801, another loco on these duties. Photos show these on non-corridor brake third and full third, which of course they ran round at each terminus.

[Adrock]

Auto-fitted 1465 was one such loco used for Dolgelley-Barmouth workings, allocated to Penmaenpool engine depot and was a Machynlleth 89C loco.

 

5809 was non auto fitted as was 5801, another loco on these duties. Photos show these on non-corridor brake third and full third, which of course they ran round at each terminus.

Thanks Coach. Was 1465 hauling an Autocoach at any time then? Or working in non-auto mode?

 

Thanks.

[tomparryharry]

Reference to retrofitting suggests confusion with the 4575/55xx class small prairies fitted with auto gear for work in the South Wales and Plymouth areas under BR (WR) auspices.  Other locos fitted from new were the 54xx pannier tanks and the smaller wheeled 64xx variant produced by Bachmann; a 74xx to all intents and purposes identical to the 64xx but not auto fitted was also produced.  Prior to the introduction of the 48xx (which were later renumbered as the more familiar 14xx to release the 48xx series for oil fired 28xx variants), several classes of small pannier tank, the 'Metro' 2-4-0T, and the '517' 0-4-2T which the 48/58xx is a development of did auto work, taking over trailers from withdrawn steam railmotors and of course working with the ex-railmotors when they were converted to auto trailers.  Potted history lesson over for tonight...

 

I think some of the 2021 panniers were fitted for auto. Don't know the numbers offhand.

[coachmann]

Thanks Coach. Was 1465 hauling an Autocoach at any time then? Or working in non-auto mode?

 

Thanks.

It was working an auto trailer in a photo I've seen.