Free At Last Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Mrs Y has just bought me one of these http://online.findgift.com/gift-ideas/the-ultimate-swearing-punch-bag-pid-73429/#bwhich includes the aforementioned expletive. It was for the car dashboard but it's staying between my right hand and the monitor. "This product is no longer available" Drat, she must have bought you the last one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 If you are not capable due to infirmity or other valid reason then do your own thing. I'm applying for a Doctor's note as I speak. I bet you were always the first to be picked for games too. Someone with 100% RTR stuff and someone who scratchbuilds everything are just at different (albeit widely separated) places on the same spectrum. The latter are more advanced modellers and will almost certainly be more skilled modellers but I don't think it's fair to use the word "real". Really? I may be capable of extreme scratchbuilding but choose to deploy modified RTR because of the scale of my endeavours. Jim S-W's P4 New Street doesn't use hand-knitted valve gear, but it's in no lesser league IMHO to the Vale Scene in Pendon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 "This product is no longer available" Drat, she must have bought you the last one. Too much negative feedback I understand :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted March 9, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 9, 2015 Really? I may be capable of extreme scratchbuilding but choose to deploy modified RTR because of the scale of my endeavours. Jim S-W's P4 New Street doesn't use hand-knitted valve gear, but it's in no lesser league IMHO to the Vale Scene in Pendon.Apologies if that came out the wrong way, I was oversimplifying somewhat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted March 9, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 9, 2015 If you don't like it you don't have to take part...... if you have any computer knowledge at all the search system can find things for you.... you don't have to manually sort the wheat from the chaff. I do note comments from RMWeb users who are also members of other forums..... capable of being negative on here while being less so elsewhere... could be some people like to try to stir things on RMWeb to be discussed elsewhere... Everyone has an opinion and on here are free to share it. I do wonder if sometimes the opinions shared are not really their own? There are some very very good modellers on RMWeb and they do provide a lot of help and support for free...some have left (and on occasion come back) which can be a shame but some have gone and tis the better for it.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted March 9, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 9, 2015 Yup! It should be called the "I'm a martyr, get me out of here" button but I can only read the first and last letters on it... A and E. Mrs Y has just bought me one of these http://online.findgift.com/gift-ideas/the-ultimate-swearing-punch-bag-pid-73429/#bwhich includes the aforementioned expletive. It was for the car dashboard but it's staying between my right hand and the monitor. Only 'R' rated language? Surely it needs to be 'X' rated... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I do note comments from RMWeb users who are also members of other forums..... capable of being negative on here while being less so elsewhere... could be some people like to try to stir things on RMWeb to be discussed elsewhere...So that's what separates them from us ... and why perhaps we decline their requests to join their tribe? Perhaps what is required is no change here and we respectively suggest the anti-negative, more refined less accommodating advocates should seek their company. As I think it has been said before - if you don't like the way RMWeb works as a community - nothing is forcing you to join in. It is the most popular model railway forum not least because it is open to everyone without some esoteric test of their "abilities". All are welcome no matter what their skill or capability. All the other forums are just ME2 sites and breakaways. Progress is fine but let's not destroy mankind in the process. (OK I know it's only modelling, but it feels like it sometimes - especially talk of pressing some big red apocalyptical self-destruct button) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 One good thing about the removal of the disagree/undecipherable buttons is embarrassing fat finger syndrome whist flicking down the page on a tablet using your right thumb. Much nicer to inadvetently agree with someone than to disagree as long as it wasn't a post by AHitler and something about wanting back the Sudetenland. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted March 9, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 9, 2015 We'll I dare say I'm one of the negative influences, I've been well critical of Hornby in the past while praising Bachmann and now I find I've done a complete 180 turn. Hornby seem to be getting their supply chain under control, and while abandoning design clever seem to have an appreciation that cost is important. The J15 for instance looks a real winner and value for money. You can see it in their TTS range too. On the other hand Bachmann seem to have lost the plot completely. I do try to strike a note of jocularity , and in always chuffed when people send me a smiley face, and it happens a good few times! It is only model railways after all, as dear as it is to our hearts. I do think that RMweb is an important resource which enables enthusiasts to express an opinion. I'm sorry but not everything in the garden is rosy and there is therefore a tendency to negativity as it is not mentioned anywhere else . 20% increases year on year (where else do you see this, by the way) should not go unchallenged. If we had a bolder Model Railway press perhaps we wouldn't need to raise these issues, but I bet you will look in vain for any reference to increases . What happened to investigative journalism, there are gaping holes in the argument. So apologies if it gets weary, but I reckon with about half postings on the Bachmann thread being about price,it sends a signal, which apart from us voting with our feet, won't come from anywhere else in the Model Railway media Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnarcher Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I didn't say I haven't heard of it, I was merely enquiring as to why you seemed to think I had cast some out there. A "real modeller" in my book is someone who is not prepared to just accept what is available to him/her, but is willing to adapt, modify, re-design etc to suit a more prototypical representation. Whether it be track, rolling stock or buildings etc. But we all work within our own limitations and boundaries, and kudos to those that "have a go". If you are not capable due to infirmity or other valid reason then do your own thing. It can be interpreted many ways I suppose and at many levels. Its certainly not someone who says " Damn they have released it as 37123, I wanted 37124" Pete Just in the name of balance (as some people have said otherwise) may I just record that I find no problem with that definition at all. It isn't saying that only full scratch-building counts as modelling (someone mentioned 'extreme scratch-building', is that modelling combined with bungee-jumping or something?). The point was I think that even the re-numbering mentioned is modelling, as in 'adapt or modify' (re-numbering, weathering, decent couplings on rtr?), and it's a bit much to complain if you can't get what you want without even that much modelling. ( 'modelling' surely suggests some personal input, not just shopping.), and complaining is the subject of this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted March 9, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 9, 2015 This thread sucks!!! What's negative about that?? :no: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Reichert Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 This thread sucks!!! What's negative about that?? :no: Agreed. Three hearty posiitive cheers for de-soldering braid. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Really? I think it would be dreadful. No literature, little music, very few model railways but, worst of all no opinions. That is surely what makes us individuals, and without difference in opinions there would be little point in conversation. Sorry Pete. Ed Ed, you’re addressing that to a musician! Of course I meant here. Endless moaning and whinging about gravity will not make the lines on my face go away. It’s pointless. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinWalsh Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Holy crap, talk about playing hopscotch in a minefield, even Bomb Disposal techs would think thrice before entering here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torn-on-the-platform Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I'm glad that Andy has brought this issue up, though it is a shame that he has had to do so. I try to steer clear of arguments on the internet, but the negative comments in the Bachmann announcement thread were so petulant and selfish I was nearly driven to stick my foot in and say something about it. I decided against it for fear of antagonising a significant, albeit small, percentage of this forum's members, though I shall say my bit now, if anyone is interested to read it: Many people seemed to be of the opinion that they had been wronged by Bachmann because certain products, some of which seemed pretty niche, were ignored. I feel that it is fair enough to voice your frustration about avoidable production errors and significant delays in product development, but to complain that a company does not have the same economic judgement as you is quite frankly ridiculous (as is, in my opinion, losing sleep over a moulded smokebox dart or a lack of sprung buffers). Until an announcement, the company has made no promises to its customers, and even if the specifications are changed later on in the development timeline, RTR models are provided by companies that must make money in order to continue to serve us and may have to make compromises as a result. I was very surprised to see a scattering of posts which have been critical of the flurry of product announcements in the last couple of years, worrying that the market will be saturated, or complaining that certain companies shouldn't announce any more products until they have caught up with their older announcements. They just can't win! The BBC thread mentioned by Andy in his OP also frustrated me, as I saw it as a platform to moan about something irrelevant to the purpose of this forum. Rant over, my apologies for the hypocrisy. On a substantially more positive note, I have never seen any direct criticism of RMWeb's member's work. Constructive criticism maybe, but never anything damning and horrible. Testament to the quality on display perhaps? It also seems that, compared to the rest of the internet, we are a largely civil and well mannered bunch. I'm sure there have been times when this negativity will have crept in, but I have been blissfully unaware. I will certainly feel comfortable, and look forward to, posting my future projects when I have the time, space and money to start them. I don't know whether Andy and the Mods would agree, but I feel that RMWeb is a safe haven away from the worst of serious internet trolls. On a few occasions, the hostile reception received by those who launch in with criticisms and complaints in their first few posts has helped to ensure that those intent on malicious moaning either change their tune quickly or realise that RMWeb is not the place for them. My favourite contributors to RMWeb, other than those who show their inspirational, top quality photography and railway modelling, are those who will often post a calm and diplomatic post whilst the fireworks are threatening to go off around them, usually diffusing the rising tension as they do so. These two groups largely seem to include the same people! To conclude, it is my opinion that balanced constructive criticism can be an extremely useful tool. To pretend that everything is perfect would be naive (I stopped reading a major magazine when I decided that its reviews were too overwhelmingly positive, even in the face of glaring errors), however, negativity alone is simply destructive and should be avoided. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 So apologies if it gets weary, but I reckon with about half postings on the Bachmann thread being about price,it sends a signal, which apart from us voting with our feet, won't come from anywhere else in the Model Railway media I support this view, and for what it's worth MY Interpretation of the point that the topic OP is trying to make is: "If something doesn't please then do something positive about it rather than just expressing negative views without any action." Vote 'with your feet' (sic), that is definitely positive action, but I wonder if those making the most noise are the least likely to do this? If the unhappy amongst us feel this is the case my challenge would be put up or shut up - use direct positive action to achieve what it is you think you want and stop complaining on a whim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Reichert Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 So that's what separates them from us ... and why perhaps we decline their requests to join their tribe? Perhaps what is required is no change here and we respectively suggest the anti-negative, more refined less accommodating advocates should seek their company. As I think it has been said before - if you don't like the way RMWeb works as a community - nothing is forcing you to join in. It is the most popular model railway forum not least because it is open to everyone without some esoteric test of their "abilities". All are welcome no matter what their skill or capability. All the other forums are just ME2 sites and breakaways. Progress is fine but let's not destroy mankind in the process. (OK I know it's only modelling, but it feels like it sometimes - especially talk of pressing some big red apocalyptical self-destruct button) You got invited to join another forum??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 You got invited to join another forum??? Yes, but I failed the strict entry criteria ... the P4 handshake, use tongue to check the DCC signal, and not having a weathered appearance. Anyway, even after all these years of negativity, I still love RMWeb. Still, simply the best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Still, simply the best. Thanks Tina Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Dickerson Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Ed, you’re addressing that to a musician! Of course I meant here. Endless moaning and whinging about gravity will not make the lines on my face go away. It’s pointless. Best, Pete. I'm sure sooner or later one will wonder if a particular poster is on another planet, so questions of gravity... I think it's fair to assume online forums have been able to influence the direction in which manufacturers have gone, but we run the risk of confusing the status quo or consensus at a particular stage in that interrelation with the only unchangeable truth. I'm sure 30 years ago had this forum existed the moaners would have been waving Athearn and Atlas flywheel drives about and we'd all be extolling the virtues of X04s or Portescaps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iL Dottore Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I have been on RMWeb pretty much since its inception and I have learned to take the rough with the smooth (although I think that ad hominem attacks are never acceptable). I also firmly believe that how a comment is delivered, affects people's perception. Stating that Company X made a big mistake in issuing a GWR loco in purple is one thing (to use a silly example), stating that Company X is full of ignorant tosspots for issuing a GWR loco in purple, is quite another. I also firmly believe that whilst you may disagree with someone's point of view, there is no reason to attack the person. To give a concrete example, I have had (off line) an amiable disagreement with a noted EMU/DMU modeller about the colour of the Clacton express (Class 309). I quite adamantly am convinced that, as an 8 year old, I saw the Class 309 in BR Green, he - given his extensive knowledge of the area - stated that the Class 309 never wore BR Green. Rather than informing me that I am an ignorant idiot, he suggested that perhaps I was (mis-) remembering a different class. Opinions exchanged, goodwill maintained and I learnt something new (although I am still hoping to find an archive photo of a Class 309 in BR Green to prove - at least to myself, if no one else - that my memory isn't that bad). Unfortunately, given the huge numbers of individuals participating in RMWeb, some do choose to make ad hominem attacks or express a negative view in a less than constructive (if not a destructive) manner. Quite frankly, I read such posts and conclude "what a plonker" and move on. I have neither time, energy or inclination to get riled up. One thing I do NOT like, is how some people in our rather fragmented hobby look down on others. I think all efforts are valid, although I may not like what is being done (for example MPD layouts I find rather boring, but that does not impede me appreciating superb modelling [one MPD layout had me gobsmacked by what the modeller had done with some Superquick terraced houses in the background - turning a common or garden card kit into something I thought was extremely convincing and very, very realistic). And as someone has pointed out, few are the modellers that start off with the skills of Roye England or Guy Williams, so why belittle those who begin with RTR. And if some modellers wish to progress no further in the hobby, why denigrate them? Certainly RMWeb has become huge, and - regretfully - there are far too many threads that make me think "that looks interesting, I'll have to read that thread sometime" and of course that "sometime" (almost) never comes. But RMWeb is a huge archive of knowledge that can be dipped in to at any time, and that - as a British Railway modeller in a foreign land - is an immeasurable treasure. And as for "Wheeltappers and Shunters", I find it great fun - a bit like the lucky dip at a country fete: you never know quite what you'll get (and some threads there - like ER - are worth the price of admission alone) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 for some reason i feel like contributing just for the sake that its a popular thread, but dont feel that i am qualified to comment as ive been here for 4 years but never needed to go into the products section and many other sections, so i dont know what its like in there. I dont go in because I know theres nothing there for me, instead of going into a (for example) a product thread and complain that they dont do what i want. i have nothing to contribute so i just stay away. what ive commented on a another forum with a "is the price worth it" sort of thread is, i cant afford alot of what i would love to have but that is because i cant afford it not because the price is too high, you get what you pay for, if you want low price then you get low quality. In an age of convenience people expect to get what they want for what price they want and complain if they cant. as with what been brought up previously, that really bugs me, is that just reading what people say you cant hear what they say, we can understand tone of voice and emotion through listening, ive had an accidental falling out on another forum because of this, but sorted it out straight away. (edit for clarity) im discussing reasons for people to complain and dis agree that ive noticed. i wont go further because i dont want to and i dont feel qualified to contribute Regards, Sam. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poggy1165 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Politics is banned - wisely. Although I think sometimes people make political statements and get away with it. This can cause friction. Humour is another source of problems. I find this difficult, because I like humour, particularly irony, but it doesn't always translate well on a written medium like this and can unwittingly cause offence. A lot of people do seem to come on and moan about this and that, often the non-availability of (whatever) or the faults the manufacturer made with (whatever). Some of the information about faults can be interesting, useful, even enlightening. But the negativity can perhaps sometimes go a tad far. The other cause of heat seems to be the widely varying approaches people have to the hobby. I don't see how you can get around this without dividing the forum into sectors, and confining members to 'their' sector. This would be an unpleasant approach. It would be far better if everyone just accepted that everyone else is not exactly like them, and that there is nothing wrong with this. By the way, the 'snobbery' - if that is the word - often seems to cut both ways. But on the other hand consider the positives of this place. They surely far out-weigh any temporary irritation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted March 10, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 10, 2015 There isn't much to be positive about wherever you look right now. May I beg to differ? For those who live in the UK there have been hard times and some are truly doing it tough. But a majority of the population is in work and has home to live in. True there might not be a lot of disposable income - or indeed any - but times have been tougher. There will be those among us who remember war-time deprivation and rationing. There might be those among us who remember the 1930s depression. Most of us will have lived through and remember the 1970s when we had the three-day working week, high unemployment, high interest rates and the traditional heavy industries we had relied upon for generations were being sold off and shut down. Most of us are in a better place in 2015. Those who live elsewhere, remembering that the internet is fully international, will of course have their own versions of the same. I count as my greatest success the fact that after having to spend two nights without a home to go to (and at the time taking advantage of the London night-bus network to pass the small hours in some degree of comfort) that I have progressed from unemployment to full employment and home ownership. It hasn't always been easy but I've got out there and done something to improve my lot. In hobby terms we as consumers are demanding more and more and expecting it for less and less. We have seldom has things as good as they are now. We have had to swallow some serious price rises but the unseen benefits of those are to hopefully keep our major suppliers in business and their Chinese labour fed, clothed and housed. There are many positives today. Sometimes all we need is to unblinker ourselves and see them. Sometimes we might need to work to attain them. If I were still living in the UK I might not be in the fortunate position I am and have a huge layout with a significant rolling stock collection to run on it. But I'm very sure I would have something which matched my circumstances and available budget. Australia has been kind to me but I take nothing for granted. In return I have offered that kindness, including financial support, back to friends and family (mostly in the UK) in their times of need. What goes around comes around and I believe those who perpetuate negativity may find it hard to break free form the vicious cycle and the loss of friendship and respect which sometimes goes with that. But a smile and a friendly greeting - even if it's only to one person - at least once a day will soon turn things around. Those who promulgate the positive, those who can usually see the better side of things, even those who smile through adversity are those with great strength of character. I salute you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted March 10, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 10, 2015 In terms of material wants and needs we're better off than most of history (there have been ups and downs and we're not in an up right now, even if we're past the minimum), but I find little to be positive about in general. There's not really any evidence that people are getting happier, and surely that's the only thing that really matters. The country might be getting easier and more convenient over time but I really, really think it's also getting gradually more unattractive and soulless, which is starting to affect me more and more. The ease and convenience is already sufficient, I don't need or want more unless it comes with no downsides. IMO what's needed for happiness are not worrying about the basic necessities, good company, and good surroundings. Other things are more temporary and ultimately less meaningful - nice to have luxuries but not really worth having if they start impacting those basics. Like I said elsewhere the future depresses me, about the only thing I look forward to from it is what new stuff we'll learn from space exploration, most of the changes back on Earth leave me upset. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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