Washout at Dawlish

[DBSD]

Seariser4 sailing away from the sunrise this morning.

[Professor Plumtree]

I started here:

http://www.lobsterpictures.tv/site-monitoring

 

then scrolled down to "Live Cameras".

 

It seems to do something odd with the url - whatever site you then select it still shows the same. Perhaps it is so the you can only get there via their front page.

 

Chris

 

this is the URL http://lobstervision.s3.amazonaws.com/image/30e4364e_832x468.jpg

[SHMD]

Seariser4 sailing away from the sunrise this morning.Screenshot 2015-03-24 06.29.29.png

 

Looks more like it is walking into the sunset to me!

[ChrisJD]

this is the URL http://lobstervision.s3.amazonaws.com/image/30e4364e_832x468.jpg

 

Ah yes, my browser didn't display that. However it only shows the current view, and lacks all the controls for looking back at earlier shots, zooming, and so forth. I suppose it depends what you want to see.

[sparks]

I recently came across a stash of UK photos from the Detroit Publishing Co on Flickr. Here are some from Dawlish, thought to be in the 1890s:-

From station, Dawlish, England-LCCN2002696649 by Fæ, on Flickr

From Royal Hotel, Dawlish, England-LCCN2002696650 by Fæ, on Flickr

View from Lea Mount, Dawlish, England-LCCN2002696648 by Fæ, on Flickr

Boating beach, Dawlish, England-LCCN2002696651 by Fæ, on Flickr

Bathing cove, Dawlish, England-LCCN2002696652 by Fæ, on Flickr

View from E. Cliff, Teignmouth, England-LCCN2002708154 by Fæ, on Flickr

 

I recommend clicking through to Flickr and looking at the full size ones - the detail is amazing!

[Fat Controller]

I recently came across a stash of UK photos from the Detroit Publishing Co on Flickr. Here are some from Dawlish, thought to be in the 1890s:-

From station, Dawlish, England-LCCN2002696649 by Fæ, on Flickr

From Royal Hotel, Dawlish, England-LCCN2002696650 by Fæ, on Flickr

View from Lea Mount, Dawlish, England-LCCN2002696648 by Fæ, on Flickr

Boating beach, Dawlish, England-LCCN2002696651 by Fæ, on Flickr

Bathing cove, Dawlish, England-LCCN2002696652 by Fæ, on Flickr

View from E. Cliff, Teignmouth, England-LCCN2002708154 by Fæ, on Flickr

 

I recommend clicking through to Flickr and looking at the full size ones - the detail is amazing!

Nice, and not as garish as some of these hand-tinted cards can be. The second one gives an idea of what even urban roads were like in pre-Tarmac days.

[Titan]

It seems that the beach even has those quaint 'bathing machines' !!

[The Stationmaster]

The views are definitely post 1895 and probably c.1901/02.

[Captain Kernow]

I recently came across a stash of UK photos from the Detroit Publishing Co on Flickr. Here are some from Dawlish, thought to be in the 1890s:-

 

 

 

I recommend clicking through to Flickr and looking at the full size ones - the detail is amazing!

These really are amazing and thanks for bringing them to everyone's attention, but are there any copyright issues in posting the actual images on here?

[melmerby]

The views are definitely post 1895 and probably c.1901/02.

What about the one with the down train leaving the station to go onto the single track?

I wondered whether it might be broad gauge!

 

Keith

 

EDIT maybe not!

Edited March 29, 2015 by melmerby

[ruggedpeak]

 are there any copyright issues in posting the actual images on here?

No, http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:From_station,_Dawlish,_England-LCCN2002696649.jpg,

 

scroll down for licencing

[The Stationmaster]

No, http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:From_station,_Dawlish,_England-LCCN2002696649.jpg,

 

scroll down for licencing

And not just that - they are from postcards which are over 100 years old and therefore well out of copyright by any measure (although the photographer might have lived to be a very old man of course which could impinge on one interpretation if he retained the copyright and lived beyond 1945).  But as far as 'public utterance' of the pictures is concerned they're well clear as that is 70 years from date of publication (or did they go in for very old photos in 1950s first issued photos in Dawlish?).

[steve fay]

Surprising how much sand the beach at Dawlish has lost over the years

[PhilJ W]

I recently came across a stash of UK photos from the Detroit Publishing Co on Flickr. Here are some from Dawlish, thought to be in the 1890s:-

From station, Dawlish, England-LCCN2002696649 by Fæ, on Flickr

From Royal Hotel, Dawlish, England-LCCN2002696650 by Fæ, on Flickr

View from Lea Mount, Dawlish, England-LCCN2002696648 by Fæ, on Flickr

Boating beach, Dawlish, England-LCCN2002696651 by Fæ, on Flickr

Bathing cove, Dawlish, England-LCCN2002696652 by Fæ, on Flickr

View from E. Cliff, Teignmouth, England-LCCN2002708154 by Fæ, on Flickr

 

I recommend clicking through to Flickr and looking at the full size ones - the detail is amazing!

I wonder if its still possible to get photographs today from the same vantage points?

[Professor Plumtree]

And not just that - they are from postcards which are over 100 years old and therefore well out of copyright by any measure (although the photographer might have lived to be a very old man of course which could impinge on one interpretation if he retained the copyright and lived beyond 1945).  But as far as 'public utterance' of the pictures is concerned they're well clear as that is 70 years from date of publication (or did they go in for very old photos in 1950s first issued photos in Dawlish?).

whilst you are of course correct on the 70 year rule, there are plenty of "people" who republish old postcards and then claim the copyright.

 

You know who you are

 

[Professor Plumtree]

Was recently down Dawlish Warren & saw the seawall parapet joints where the rock armour is, And seeing   them use mastic & smoothing it out with a piece of white plastic tubing 

Hi

 

Any more recent photos?

 

[melmerby]

Heres a modern view from Lea Mount:

 

http://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/02/38/33/2383362_e656ef93.jpg

 

Keith

[corneliuslundie]

Be warned. The copyright law covering photographs changed recently. Copyright used to subsist for 70 years from the date the photograph was taken. It is now 70 years from the death of the photographer. But what is not clear is the position if the photographer sold the copyright to a company which might remain in existence. Would it still, old the copyright? In theory it completely scuppers those publishers who produce books of old postcards (a postcard where the photograph was taken in 1900 could easily still be in copyright), but it is too soon to know how it will pan out in practice.

 

I am not a lawyer. The HMRS among other organisations is trying to get to the bottom of all this - rather important when one's photograph collection is so large.

 

Jonathan David

[Captain Kernow]

And not just that - they are from postcards which are over 100 years old and therefore well out of copyright by any measure (although the photographer might have lived to be a very old man of course which could impinge on one interpretation if he retained the copyright and lived beyond 1945).  But as far as 'public utterance' of the pictures is concerned they're well clear as that is 70 years from date of publication (or did they go in for very old photos in 1950s first issued photos in Dawlish?).

Thanks. My question over copyright was more aimed at paper publications, rather than re-posting on the internet...

 

Same difference?

Edited March 31, 2015 by Captain Kernow

[The Stationmaster]

Be warned. The copyright law covering photographs changed recently. Copyright used to subsist for 70 years from the date the photograph was taken. It is now 70 years from the death of the photographer. But what is not clear is the position if the photographer sold the copyright to a company which might remain in existence. Would it still, old the copyright? In theory it completely scuppers those publishers who produce books of old postcards (a postcard where the photograph was taken in 1900 could easily still be in copyright), but it is too soon to know how it will pan out in practice.

 

I am not a lawyer. The HMRS among other organisations is trying to get to the bottom of all this - rather important when one's photograph collection is so large.

 

Jonathan David

The interesting element of this with many postcard views, including prints of loco photos published by various publishing houses over the years in postcard format (and sometimes with a  postcard back) is that the same photo could well have been published by several different companies.  I have a number of postcards which exist in several duplicate forms - all have the same photo but the issuer of the card was completely different (GWR 111 is a good example of this).  So it looks like some photographers sold their pictures to more than one publisher -which opens up the question of who held the original copyright.

 

The wider issue is of course quite important as more than a few books are around which have used postcards for illustrations, sometimes in copious quantities in a single volume.  Not quite the same as publishing an album of postcard pictures but not much different.

[Professor Plumtree]

I heard a steamer go through about 13:50 today but didn't catch the video & it doesn't appear to be on realtime?

 

[Captain Kernow]

I heard a steamer go through about 13:50 today but didn't catch the video & it doesn't appear to be on realtime?

 

1Z30 0824 Oxford to Kingswear via Didcot, Reading West Curve and Newbury. Arrived in Kingswear right time at 1455 hrs.

 

Returns as 1Z31 1730 Kingswear to Oxford, passes Teignmouth at 1827 hrs.

 

Operated by West Coast Railways, should have 61306 on the front.

[LesG]

I recently came across a stash of UK photos from the Detroit Publishing Co on Flickr. Here are some from Dawlish, thought to be in the 1890s:-

From station, Dawlish, England-LCCN2002696649 by Fæ, on Flickr

From Royal Hotel, Dawlish, England-LCCN2002696650 by Fæ, on Flickr

 

I recommend clicking through to Flickr and looking at the full size ones - the detail is amazing!

Hi Guys,

 

If you look at the first two photos you can see the long sleepers from the broad gauge track which was cross sleepered broad gauge before conversion so the chairs and rails would have been moved closer together.

This means the photos were taken after the gauge conversion in May 1892.

The long sleepers would have been replaced when time allowed maybe within 1 to 2 years.

Best wishes,

 

Les.

[sparks]

These really are amazing and thanks for bringing them to everyone's attention, but are there any copyright issues in posting the actual images on here?

 

 

No, http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:From_station,_Dawlish,_England-LCCN2002696649.jpg,

 

scroll down for licencing

 

As ruggedpeak says, the originals have a Creative Commons licence which allows the Flickr user to post a copy of the image there. Even if this wasn't the case, I have just linked to the Flickr files using the share function, so there isn't actually a copy on RMweb. (But if they had been dodgy, I wouldn't have done it anyway)

 

There are hundreds of scenic shots in this collection and I came across many more with railway interest from all over the country. I also posted a few on the Forest of Dean (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/89344-somewhere-in-the-forest-of-dean/page-4&do=findComment&comment=1834721) and Cornwall Today threads (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/37636-cornwall-today-daily-duchy-updates/page-108&do=findComment&comment=1835920) but I have been wondering if maybe I should start a new thread somewhere?

Edited April 1, 2015 by sparks

[The Stationmaster]

Hi Guys,

 

If you look at the first two photos you can see the long sleepers from the broad gauge track which was cross sleepered broad gauge before conversion so the chairs and rails would have been moved closer together.

This means the photos were taken after the gauge conversion in May 1892.

The long sleepers would have been replaced when time allowed maybe within 1 to 2 years.

Best wishes,

 

Les.

They are almost certainly later than 1895 due to the way the track has been slued - hence the date I quoted above.

As ruggedpeak says, the originals have a Creative Commons licence which allows the Flickr user to post a copy of the image there. Even if this wasn't the case, I have just linked to the Flickr files using the share function, so there isn't actually a copy on RMweb. (But if they had been dodgy, I wouldn't have done it anyway)

 

There are hundreds of scenic shots in this collection and I came across many more with railway interest from all over the country. I also posted a few on the Forest of Dean (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/89344-somewhere-in-the-forest-of-dean/page-4&do=findComment&comment=1834721) and Cornwall Today threads (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/37636-cornwall-today-daily-duchy-updates/page-108&do=findComment&comment=1835920) but I have been wondering if maybe I should start a new thread somewhere?

 

I somehow don't think the originals would have a Creative Commons Licence as such a thing didn't exist back when the photos were taken over 100 years ago.  No doubt the Flickr images do come with such a thing but in reality all that is allowing you to do is use the Flickr image - which was in fact an original image taken by someone else and to which they might not necessarily have title (although I grant the photographer could well be a relative of the person who posted the images on Flickr and passed down through the family a right for his successors to use the images).  And it can be even more confusing than that - I have found one image in that collection, without looking very far, which also happens to be in my postcard collection but has about as much to do with a collection in Detroit as a GWR timetable as it happened to be issued as a postcard by the GWR (among other concerns which also published it as a postcard, it is quite a common and well known card/view as it happens) and I'm sure I don't need anybody's permission to post a copy of the card I own as the company which issued it is long defunct.