West End Workbench

[jwealleans]

Change of running order while a copy of the Russell book heads my way.    I have much more material on the LMS, so I started the third wagon, a machinery truck (or 'Traction Truck' as the LMS seem to have called it).  This has taken a couple of nights as the method of construction is slightly different.  Axleguards are supplied separately, so I attached one pair at diagonal opposites and left them overnight to harden off before fitting the others.   This is how I make up Parkside kits: it gives you something relatively solid to brace the axles against as you fit the wheelset and frees up your third hand for wherever else it's needed.

 

 

Sensibly you're provided with three of everything, so I had spares left as well as a suitable load to hand.  Cast buffers also come with the kit.   The buffers needed a fair bit of cleaning up and the heads were somewhat misshapen.  I used Wizard Models 10.5mm wheels (16507) and had to trim just a little material from the underside to allow them to run freely.   Fitting the coupling hooks is a bit awkward and you end up with not much hook behind the buffer beam.   This wagon showed up the limitations of the printing a bit more than the first - the brake levers were variable in width along their length and I might have replaced with brass if I hadn't been intent on using all the supplied parts.  There were pips to clean off but most were sensibly sited to be out of normal sight.   Looking at the photographs in LMS Wagons Volume 2, there are what seem to be roping points below the body along each side.   I might have a go at making and fitting these just to personalise it a bit.  Overall, though, for another hour and a bit of leisurely modelling, I've ended up with a nice little model of a very useful wagon.  

 

 

I had the Hydra out of the box to look over the components and noticed a hole in the deck - a printing flaw, i assume.   Some plastic filler last night and a good sand and scrawk this evening have rendered it undetectable once a coat of paint goes on.

 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2023 by jwealleans

[jwealleans]

Having seen another build of the Traction truck on Facebook by Jim Smith-Wright, I have added what look to be lashing points to the body.   They're made from .45 wire soldered through holes in nickel-silver strip (scrap etch).   The originals seem to have become bent to jaunty angles (or were fitted by a visually impaired worker) and so I've made them slightly irregular.   The tails of the wire are bent over and used to superglue to the underside of the body.

 

 

If I weren't building this for a review, I might well have overlaid the body sides with plastic or brass strip as they are uneven - the limitations of the printing process.    You can see here the design of the underfloor, which is ideal for filling with liquid lead if you want to run the wagon unloaded.

 

The Coral has had a couple of coats of paint:

 

 

Hydra tomorrow.

 

 

 

[jwealleans]

Started the Hydra as promised this morning.   However not as much progress as I'd have liked.

 

 

Fundamentally this is a very similar kit to the others and goes together just as well.   The same principles apply about cleaning up the slots for the axleboxes and using files rather than drills for the buffer and coupling holes.   You can see along the sides that there were some tiny blowholes from the printing which I filled in a couple of days ago.   There was also a flaw in the printing on this one which I was able to clean up and make good with a piece of 40 thou plastikard as you can see.

 

I noticed while putting it together that the spring dampers had not printed.   I flagged this up to the designer (he's revisited them, though they were there in the CAD) and them made my own from plastic rod.  While I was doing that I dropped it and smashed one axleguard and two buffer heads.   The axleguard is fine, it superglued almost invisibly back into place, but I don't have any more buffers.   I also don't have any more D/C brake levers, so it will go on hold until I next order from Andrew.   I have added brake shows at one end, they're quite visible.   The others will go on when I come back to it.

 

One more point about this wagon - I had to remove a bit of material from above the wheels to allow it to run freely.   This is because there's slop in the bearings, so the wheels can move up as well as sideways.   I'd superglued them in by the time that penny dropped, so make sure your axles are a close but free running fit.   Wheels are 14mm Mansell from Wizard, buffers B021 from Dave Franks.   The brake shoes were from the spares box and there will need to be a brake hose at each end as well, which wlil be MJT or LMS.

 

That put to one side, I picked up some other projects which have been hanging while I concentrated on these wagons.

 

 

I found time to letter up the J6; after some successful test running on Grantham, this is slated for the Newcastle show.

 

I also picked up one of the wagons I acquired from a deceased collection earlier in the year.   A couple of them were used as 'have a go' pieces at Thirsk Show while I was demonstrating weathering.   They've since been through the paint stripper and onto the corner of the bench.   I picked this one up to have a go at detailing it today.   

 

 

It was only when I had it in my hands and upside down today that I realised that it wasn't quite the Parkside Fruit van I'd taken it for.  The builder has used the ends from a Fruit van kit but the sides from the standard van and a steel underframe to make the later diagram Fruit van.   I haven't had it beside Tatlow to see just how accurate it is, but it's a good idea.   Someone does the 'Fruit' plates as an etch, I'm sure, I just have to remember who it is.

 

 

It's had my usual additions to the underframe, replacement buffers and couplings.  There's still a little more to add, then a weight, better roof vents and off it goes for paint.

This was the main focus of the day, though - a job I started a couple of weeks ago.

 

 

Earlier in the year a member on the LNER forum kindly sent me some printed containers, including a couple of the pressed steel ones I've been keen to get hold of for Grantham ever since we started selecting stock for it.   I've not really done much with them up to now, but I do want them on the Scotch Goods for Newcastle.   I looked at my available options for conflats and found a couple of Conflat S kits and some resin cast Conflat Vs from Mr. King.   At the time these were photographed on the Scotch Goods, around the time the V2s started hauling it, the diagram 76 container flat seems to have been the most common type.   

 

I was flicking through Tatlow looking at the different combinations and designs when it occurred to me that a D76 was not very far from Parkside's PA06 underframe kit.  I had a few of these under the bench, so I pitched into one and set about building it.

 

 

In the end I only used the floor and solebars, but I chose to discard the brake gear and use brass instead.   Buffer beams from Evergreen channel, buffers LMS, the rest the Mainly Trains LNER fitted brake gear etch and bits of wire.

 

 

The Parkside floor is over thickness, but I can live with that as a compromise as it gives a solid, square basis for the rest of the wagon.

 

 

The top is fairly simple - lengths of Evergreen strip following the arrangement shown in Tatlow 4A p 209.  I haven't bothered with the bits under the container.   The container itself has had brass eyes from Roxey added and the top tidied.  The lifting loop brackets had printed quite misshapenly and with fine filaments hanging off which were very resistent to cleaning up.  After I'd broken two off, I waved the white flag, broke the other off to match and just glued wire loops to the roof to look like the lifting shackles.   There's still the odd detail to add but it's largely there and looks the part to me.  I've started another so I'll go into more detail on that as I make progress.

Edited September 3, 2023 by jwealleans

[Carlislecitadel2]

Great to see Sacha’s steel container on this. I will be following the conflat build to see how it goes as I am in sore need of some conflats too. Could a new deck for this diagram be the first wagon body I finally get designed in Fusion?

[41516]

10 hours ago, jwealleans said:

The builder has used the ends from a Fruit van kit but the sides from the standard van and a steel underframe to make the later diagram Fruit van.

 

Rather than a conversion, is it not the old and now discontinued PC11 kit (Dia 152) which shared the sides with the (also discontinued) PC05 (Dia 161) LNER wood ended van? 

 

 

 

10 hours ago, jwealleans said:

Someone does the 'Fruit' plates as an etch, I'm sure, I just have to remember who it is.

 

AMBIS  WDP1 LNER "FISH & FRUIT" wagon labels (3 pairs each)

 

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by 41516

[jwealleans]

3 minutes ago, 41516 said:

is it not the old and now discontinued PC11 kit (Dia 152) which shared the sides with the (also discontinued) PC05 (Dia 161) LNER wood ended van? 

 

If it is then I'd forgotten it - how long ago was it discontinued?   It is an old build, the plastic has become very brittle.   He's also neglected to use the Fruit plates I can see in the pack.   Maybe that's where he got the idea?

 

Quote

AMBIS  WDP1 LNER "FISH & FRUIT" wagon labels (3 pairs each)

 

Thank you.

Edited September 4, 2023 by jwealleans

[41516]

2 hours ago, jwealleans said:

how long ago was it discontinued?

 

I honestly don't know - I assume pre-Bachmann fruit vans (~2011) and also before the newer Parkside LNER vans (PC61/2) were released?  Edit - Using the Wayback Machine, PC11 wasn't listed on the oldest capture of the Parksidedundas.co.uk website from May 2003, so was discontinued before then

 

 

Edit - Just had a closer look at the old kit I photographed above - it's got the standard 10ft morton braked chassis and not the LNER braked one.  Excuse me while I go to Ebay to list it as 'rare'......

 

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by 41516
Added Wayback link to old Parkside website

[Chas Levin]

On 03/09/2023 at 21:15, jwealleans said:

 

 

All lovely stuff Jonathan!

 

May I please ask, what was the thinking behind those rivet or bolt heads only being on the left-hand side of the van?

[31A]

1 hour ago, Chas Levin said:

 

All lovely stuff Jonathan!

 

May I please ask, what was the thinking behind those rivet or bolt heads only being on the left-hand side of the van?

 

I believe the bolt heads existed on the right hand side as well, but were countersunk so that the door could slide to open; on the left hand side it didn't matter so they didn't bother.

[MrWolf]

1 hour ago, 31A said:

 

I believe the bolt heads existed on the right hand side as well, but were countersunk so that the door could slide to open; on the left hand side it didn't matter so they didn't bother.

 

Good point, I suspect that they used regular dome headed coach bolts elsewhere to save the time and extra operations involved with drilling countersinks in the boards to ensure the flush fitting bolts pulled right in without splitting the wood.

[Chas Levin]

Aha, thank you, Messrs Pearce & Wolf: I'd got halfway towards that explanation - I'd thought about the fact that the absence of boltheads on the right-hand side meant the door could slide easily - but I hadn't worked out that meant using countersunk ones there, instead of domed ones!

[jwealleans]

Well, you seem to have worked that out nicely between yourselves, so I'll just say that I agree with Steve.   I haven't checked, but I think you can see that same bolt head pattern on the NER vans which the LNER design descends from.

 

It's been pointed out that the steel underframed fruit vans would have had steel buffer beams, so I have thinned the visible ends right down. A steel buffer beam will be black anyway, so hopefully that should trick the eye into seeing it as it should be.

[MrWolf]

I'd just like to say thanks to @jwealleans for sharing your thoughts and achievements with the rest of us. Like most of us on here, I've a certain mountain of wagon kits to work through and I have been inspired to put in that extra effort  with the small details when building them.

[cctransuk]

On 02/09/2023 at 20:06, jwealleans said:

 

 

Would those single-sided brakes be applied if the lever on this side was depressed?

 

CJI.

[jwealleans]

9 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

Would those single-sided brakes be applied if the lever on this side was depressed?

 

No.   I deliberately haven't added a cross shaft yet in case it interferes with the screw I intend to use to secure the load.   Also, the other one I've seen built has been done with each side brakes, so I need to check which is right (of course, they both could be if built in different batches or modified later).

Edited September 6, 2023 by jwealleans

[MrWolf]

I seem to recall reading that the Board of Trade (?) insisted on the railways fitting brakes on both sides of wagons after a certain date, but the railways were slow to comply and many wagons were past spending time and money on, so that the changeover wasn't complete by the time world war two intervened, so either could be correct.

 

I'm sure that someone else has a definitive answer on here.

[Compound2632]

13 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

I seem to recall reading that the Board of Trade (?) insisted on the railways fitting brakes on both sides of wagons after a certain date, but the railways were slow to comply and many wagons were past spending time and money on, so that the changeover wasn't complete by the time world war two intervened, so either could be correct.

 

I'm sure that someone else has a definitive answer on here.

 

 

The railway companies obtained several extensions of time under clause 3, up to 1939 i believe - so yet another instance of stricter standards being applied to private owner wagons than to railway company wagons, something the owners and builders had been quick to complain of, following the introduction of the RCH specification.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Compound2632

[jwealleans]

31 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

I seem to recall reading that the Board of Trade (?) insisted on the railways fitting brakes on both sides of wagons

 

Not quite - as Stephen's post shows, the requirement was that the brakes could be applied and released from both sides, but it was up to the railway to determine what brake power was required to stop and secure the vehicle.

[Compound2632]

8 hours ago, jwealleans said:

Not quite - as Stephen's post shows, the requirement was that the brakes could be applied and released from both sides, but it was up to the railway to determine what brake power was required to stop and secure the vehicle.

 

So, the options were either independent sets of brake gear on each side - brake shoes on both sides of the wagon* - or Morton or some equivalent arrangement with a cross-shaft so that the lever on either side could work the brakes, in which case the brake shoes need still only be on one side of the wagon. That would provide the same brake force as the independent arrangement.

 

*Some, notably the Great Western, skimped when adding the second set of brake gear to old wagons, fitting only a single brake shoe on the second side. 

[MrWolf]

It was the Great Western (Hail Satan) that I had in mind when I mentioned the slow uptake of doubling up the brake gear. Many of the iron minks went to the breakers still with brake shoes on one side only.

[Compound2632]

7 hours ago, MrWolf said:

It was the Great Western (Hail Satan) that I had in mind when I mentioned the slow uptake of doubling up the brake gear. Many of the iron minks went to the breakers still with brake shoes on one side only.

 

Wagons built before 1911, or before the company (any company, not just GW) adopted both-side brakes, typically sometime in the preceding decade, were getting close to end of life by 1939, so by and large were never altered.

[billbedford]

22 hours ago, MrWolf said:

I seem to recall reading that the Board of Trade (?) insisted on the railways fitting brakes on both sides of wagons after a certain date, but the railways were slow to comply and many wagons were past spending time and money on, so that the changeover wasn't complete by the time world war two intervened, so either could be correct.

 

 

This applied to brake levers, but not to the shoes. The legislation was intended to enforce the ability of a shunter to be able to walk along one side of a cut of wagons and apply, or release all the brakes without having to cross under a wagon. 

[MrWolf]

29 minutes ago, billbedford said:

 

This applied to brake levers, but not to the shoes. The legislation was intended to enforce the ability of a shunter to be able to walk along one side of a cut of wagons and apply, or release all the brakes without having to cross under a wagon. 

 

Thanks, that's what I had got mixed up I think.

[46444]

On 03/09/2023 at 21:15, jwealleans said:

Started the Hydra as promised this morning.   However not as much progress as I'd have liked.

 

 

Fundamentally this is a very similar kit to the others and goes together just as well.   The same principles apply about cleaning up the slots for the axleboxes and using files rather than drills for the buffer and coupling holes.   You can see along the sides that there were some tiny blowholes from the printing which I filled in a couple of days ago.   There was also a flaw in the printing on this one which I was able to clean up and make good with a piece of 40 thou plastikard as you can see.

 

I noticed while putting it together that the spring dampers had not printed.   I flagged this up to the designer (he's revisited them, though they were there in the CAD) and them made my own from plastic rod.  While I was doing that I dropped it and smashed one axleguard and two buffer heads.   The axleguard is fine, it superglued almost invisibly back into place, but I don't have any more buffers.   I also don't have any more D/C brake levers, so it will go on hold until I next order from Andrew.   I have added brake shows at one end, they're quite visible.   The others will go on when I come back to it.

 

One more point about this wagon - I had to remove a bit of material from above the wheels to allow it to run freely.   This is because there's slop in the bearings, so the wheels can move up as well as sideways.   I'd superglued them in by the time that penny dropped, so make sure your axles are a close but free running fit.   Wheels are 14mm Mansell from Wizard, buffers B021 from Dave Franks.   The brake shoes were from the spares box and there will need to be a brake hose at each end as well, which wlil be MJT or LMS.

 

That put to one side, I picked up some other projects which have been hanging while I concentrated on these wagons.

 

 

I found time to letter up the J6; after some successful test running on Grantham, this is slated for the Newcastle show.

 

I also picked up one of the wagons I acquired from a deceased collection earlier in the year.   A couple of them were used as 'have a go' pieces at Thirsk Show while I was demonstrating weathering.   They've since been through the paint stripper and onto the corner of the bench.   I picked this one up to have a go at detailing it today.   

 

 

It was only when I had it in my hands and upside down today that I realised that it wasn't quite the Parkside Fruit van I'd taken it for.  The builder has used the ends from a Fruit van kit but the sides from the standard van and a steel underframe to make the later diagram Fruit van.   I haven't had it beside Tatlow to see just how accurate it is, but it's a good idea.   Someone does the 'Fruit' plates as an etch, I'm sure, I just have to remember who it is.

 

 

It's had my usual additions to the underframe, replacement buffers and couplings.  There's still a little more to add, then a weight, better roof vents and off it goes for paint.

This was the main focus of the day, though - a job I started a couple of weeks ago.

 

 

Earlier in the year a member on the LNER forum kindly sent me some printed containers, including a couple of the pressed steel ones I've been keen to get hold of for Grantham ever since we started selecting stock for it.   I've not really done much with them up to now, but I do want them on the Scotch Goods for Newcastle.   I looked at my available options for conflats and found a couple of Conflat S kits and some resin cast Conflat Vs from Mr. King.   At the time these were photographed on the Scotch Goods, around the time the V2s started hauling it, the diagram 76 container flat seems to have been the most common type.   

 

I was flicking through Tatlow looking at the different combinations and designs when it occurred to me that a D76 was not very far from Parkside's PA06 underframe kit.  I had a few of these under the bench, so I pitched into one and set about building it.

 

 

In the end I only used the floor and solebars, but I chose to discard the brake gear and use brass instead.   Buffer beams from Evergreen channel, buffers LMS, the rest the Mainly Trains LNER fitted brake gear etch and bits of wire.

 

 

The Parkside floor is over thickness, but I can live with that as a compromise as it gives a solid, square basis for the rest of the wagon.

 

 

The top is fairly simple - lengths of Evergreen strip following the arrangement shown in Tatlow 4A p 209.  I haven't bothered with the bits under the container.   The container itself has had brass eyes from Roxey added and the top tidied.  The lifting loop brackets had printed quite misshapenly and with fine filaments hanging off which were very resistent to cleaning up.  After I'd broken two off, I waved the white flag, broke the other off to match and just glued wire loops to the roof to look like the lifting shackles.   There's still the odd detail to add but it's largely there and looks the part to me.  I've started another so I'll go into more detail on that as I make progress.

 

Hi Jonathan,

 

Can you tell me what shape of Evergreen strip you used for the sides of this D76 build. Is it 'L' shaped? 

 

I fancy having a go at one of these as I too have a spare Parkside PA06 underframe I could use.

 

Always good following this thread and being inspired.

 

Thanks,

 

Mark

Edited September 7, 2023 by 46444

[jwealleans]

Hi Mark,

 

I'm going to go through the build in detail - I've been working on a couple more and photographing over the last couple of evenings.