Hornby Announce Peckett W4 0-4-0ST

[shunny]

It was my local shop Scoonie Hobbies that advised me of the sell out and they had told me of issue and were unable to get me one either so I had to order elsewhere but I would have rather given the sale to my local shop.

[Roy Langridge]

Very difficult situation for Hornby: judging demand must be an absolute nightmare, especially as slots were possibly booked before the original three releases.

 

I think we have to support them and atle ast be thankful that the over production of years past seems over.

 

Roy

[Mike at C&M]

It was my local shop Scoonie Hobbies that advised me of the sell out and they had told me of issue and were unable to get me one either so I had to order elsewhere but I would have rather given the sale to my local shop.

I fail to see why Hornby could not have at least apportioned the production across all the initial orders they received for the 2017 range. Basically those retailers who were seen last, as the reps. did their tours around the country, missed out through not fault of their own.

 

If they had orders for twice as many as they are making, give everyone half of what they ordered.

 

Or better still, pinch a production slot from something else to make more, knowing fine well that you are making more Pecketts for guaranteed sales.

 

Yet another example of Hornby's inflexibility to gain maximum profit from an opportunity presented to them.

[Roy Langridge]

I fail to see why Hornby could not have at least apportioned the production across all the initial orders they received for the 2017 range. Basically those retailers who were seen last, as the reps. did their tours around the country, missed out through not fault of their own.

 

If they had orders for twice as many as they are making, give everyone half of what they ordered.

 

Or better still, pinch a production slot from something else to make more, knowing fine well that you are making more Pecketts for guaranteed sales.

 

Yet another example of Hornby's inflexibility to gain maximum profit from an opportunity presented to them.

As has already been discussed before, life is not that easy now. Production slots have to be at the right factory for the tooling etc. What do you drop? That may just annoy another set of customers.

 

Let us not push Hornby to repeat their mistakes of the past - mistakes that you for one, IIRC, were very unhappy with?

 

Roy

[adb968008]

TBH I'd rather see a sell out peckett, than a market swamped with them.

 

Increasing production just devalues the model, and sets a price precedent for those to follow. If the last one ended up dumped across every retailer on sale at pennies above trade, why shouldn't the next one be at that price too, and what good is it for the retailer ?

 

All shops had a level playing field.. the announcement was made nationwide to everyone at the same time., those who ordered first.. got them.. same goes for us customers when released who have to scramble looking for them, if they fail to order them in advance, the opportunity to get orders in is there, and it's no different to any other manufacturer...

 

A sell out means Hornby can safely do other versions in 2018, and protect both the price and demand for it.

[tetsudofan]

All shops had a level playing field.. the announcement was made nationwide to everyone at the same time., those who ordered first.. got them.. same goes for us customers when released who have to scramble looking for them, if they fail to order them in advance, the opportunity to get orders in is there, and it's no different to any other manufacturer...

 

 

All shops did not have a level playing field. My local shop put in an order to his Hornby Rep soon after the model was announced but Hornby had not told him that in the interim his Rep had changed. He got no allocation......

 

Keith

[SRman]

There is nothing to stop Hornby announcing another, uncatalogued, run of Pecketts at any time during the year. They have done such things in the past.

[No Decorum]

Leaving aside the problems of uneven allocations and of Hornby accepting orders when it should have been known that there were no models left to fill them, Hornby was probably wise to underestimate orders. Despite requests for industrials, it was probably not known how big the appetite would be. In addition, some people might have objected to Hornby’s four-pin decoder and DCC sound fans would be excluded by lack of room for a speaker. I’m not saying that there should be room for a speaker – the model is very small.

 

If Hornby did have these concerns (of course, I have no idea) they were clearly unjustified but Hornby did not know just how well these little mites would sell until after deciding on the number to produce. Better safe than sorry.

[rockershovel]

The Buzz Lightyear of small industrial locos!

 

Considering the number of small 0-4-0 locos Hornsby have sold over the years, you'd have thought they were well placed to judge demand..

[Legend]

There a big difference between Hornbys normal 0-4-0 like the GWR 101 or Caley "Smokey Joe" tank and the Peckett. These have been produced in their thousands for trainsets etc . The Peckett is priced around double or even triple what you can pick up their traditional 0-4-0 for. So not same market at all. It does show the in flexibility of the supply chain . Hornby were presumably aware it was sold out long before actual production , but could not increase the quantity from whatever factory they were sourcing it from. Just at a critical time for them too, when they needed the cash . While there are advantages in this outsourcing model , mainly cost, there are disadvantages too, mainly inflexibility.

[rockershovel]

Re #2359, the solution is to require a deposit with the order, that soon weeds out the multiple same-source orders.

 

Someone well known to me has had a series of Morgans on order for the past twenty years, to my certain knowledge. I've never seen him drive one, or even take delivery. Most of them are running around places like UAE now, or sat in air-conditioned garages, more likely. Morgan are well aware that this happens regularly, and seem to have a pretty good idea of the supply/demand arithmetic.

[rockershovel]

There a big difference between Hornbys normal 0-4-0 like the GWR 101 or Caley "Smokey Joe" tank and the Peckett. These have been produced in their thousands for trainsets etc . The Peckett is priced around double or even triple what you can pick up their traditional 0-4-0 for. So not same market at all. It does show the in flexibility of the supply chain . Hornby were presumably aware it was sold out long before actual production , but could not increase the quantity from whatever factory they were sourcing it from. Just at a critical time for them too, when they needed the cash . While there are advantages in this outsourcing model , mainly cost, there are disadvantages too, mainly inflexibility.

True enough. However I'm rather surprised that there isn't an accompanying "down-range" version which could be released into the train-set market.

[Legend]

I'm not sure there really is a trainset market any more Rockershovel. They may be frightened a lower cost version subtracts from main range sales too. I think it's also been designed to a standard, possibly not easy to down spec it, or at least maybe not easy to take cost out.

 

Really only reason I bought it was because of the blue colour. Not interested in green or black , but if there was a red one........... Not sure any Pecketts ever wore red though

[Mike at C&M]

All shops had a level playing field.. the announcement was made nationwide to everyone at the same time., those who ordered first.. got them.

Which is NOT the way the system usually works.

 

The first visit of the rep. following the announcement is when most retailers will place their order for the year ahead. They do not expect to place an order in good faith for a must have model in that year, and then have it rejected because other retailers happened to be seen earlier. This rejection is definitely no fault of our own.

 

There are a lot of retailers out there who now see Hornby in an even worse light following what we believe to be their error. One thing we hate is to deal with dis-satisfied customers when the problem has been caused by something totally outwith our control.

 

[Matter closed]

[HonestTom]

I doubt the motivation is really there for Hornby to produce a downgraded version. They've produced one to a very high standard which sold absurdly well, particularly given that manufacturers have argued for years that industrials just wouldn't sell. If people will pay for a super-detailed version (and judging by A Well-Known Auction Site, they'll pay even more than Hornby were selling them for), then it makes no commercial sense to offer a cheapo version of the same.

[tomparryharry]

Quality sells. I can well imagine another mediocre 0-4-0 cobbled together to 'look like' something. Well done Hornby. I'd guess that another Peckett re-release wont actually sell anything as well as the initial release, for a whole raft of reasons we all know only too well. Now we know that Hornby are very capable of turning out top class kit, I'd expect to take on other producers to go head to head, certainly in the quality stakes.

 

Another W4 Peckett? No, Hornby, leave it alone. Don't cheapen the little gem. Make another gem to widen the appeal. There's a whole back catalogue, just awaiting the call...

 

Ian.

[Steamport Southport]

It's alright. There's only another 136 W4s yet to be done.

 

 

I would expect Bear at one point (which is red), and MSC namers, Daphne, Croxley Mills, Henry Cort, G&SWR/LMS, BR no 1 Hercules from the Ystalyfera Tin Works.
 .

 

 

There are options for dozens of the things with out repetition. A new one every year or so is feasible.

 

 

 

 

Jason

Edited June 21, 2017 by Steamport Southport

[Ian Hargrave]

Quality sells. I can well imagine another mediocre 0-4-0 cobbled together to 'look like' something. Well done Hornby. I'd guess that another Peckett re-release wont actually sell anything as well as the initial release, for a whole raft of reasons we all know only too well. Now we know that Hornby are very capable of turning out top class kit, I'd expect to take on other producers to go head to head, certainly in the quality stakes.

 

Another W4 Peckett? No, Hornby, leave it alone. Don't cheapen the little gem. Make another gem to widen the appeal. There's a whole back catalogue, just awaiting the call...

 

Ian.

 

Er...Burton brewery locos for instance ?

[John B]

Yes, I'd certainly take a "Henry Cort" - first steam engine I ever travelled behind (aged 6, on the Foxfield, in a brake van, from Dilhorne Colliery, in 1973 - before the Colliery was relegated to open days only!).

[Roy Langridge]

Another W4 Peckett? No, Hornby, leave it alone. Don't cheapen the little gem. Make another gem to widen the appeal. There's a whole back catalogue, just awaiting the call...

 

Ian.

 

Don't see the point there at all - the Peckett is still selling and that is what matters - if I was Hornby I would churn them out 1 or 2 a year for a while until demand starts to tail off. That may provide the funding to do something different.

Roy

[tomparryharry]

Er...Burton brewery locos for instance ?

Burton locomotive? Why not? The point I failed to make (apologies, folks),is if Hornby overproduce the W4 in subsequent production, and flood the market. In my honest opinion, that would cheapen the market, and possibly devalue the market appeal. I'd guess it's far easier to make a sure-fire winner for Hornby, than to have boxes & boxes of W4's, at saturated market levels. It's harder to bring new models to the market, especially when the production competition within Hornby itself might be the next production run of My Little Pony.... Hornby seem to have found a cracking little product. I'd be in favour of continuing the process which combines the values of quality, desirability, profitability,and brand awareness. If I was Hornby (which I'm not), I'd be looking to toss into the market a suitable model which combines all of the market values created by the W4, just to keep the process rolling. Let's face it, the W4 has created a lot of goodwill for Hornby, and it would seem natural to continue in that manner.

 

Ian

[Mark Saunders]

Don't see the point there at all - the Peckett is still selling and that is what matters - if I was Hornby I would churn them out 1 or 2 a year for a while until demand starts to tail off. That may provide the funding to do something different.

 

Roy

It would probably follow the Sentinel and every catalogue produces a two or three new liveries!

 

Mark Saunders

[DougN]

All interesting. I feel for the retailers who just because of their location they were unable to order, dare I say there needs be a better way. 

 

Well as Hornby are failing business 101. Supply, when there is a demand! The subcontracting of the manufacturing will hurt Hornby as they lose control of the supply chain (I should know I am a commercial builder). I dont think we know who is doing the fabrication or what else they have as a order book. I would have thought that Hornby would have "bought" slots and they would have a number of "lines" (other locos etc)  that they would be making. If say they had to cancel a line of Rail range Mallard's, or Flying scotsmans I would suggest that the market is already at saturation point for these... even a number of other lines I would suggest saturation (K1, D16, J15 are definitely in this boat) So it would make sense for a delay of production of these lines. However there may be down stream suppliers that cause issues such as metal castings, motors, wiring looms. which we as modelers may not know which factory they come from! So to bring all of these things together using " Just in time" production probably is a nightmare. 

 

Saying all this Hornby really should have seen that the demand was going to be higher than 1 loco this year! 

[Caledonian]

There a big difference between Hornbys normal 0-4-0 like the GWR 101 or Caley "Smokey Joe" tank and the Peckett. These have been produced in their thousands for trainsets etc . The Peckett is priced around double or even triple what you can pick up their traditional 0-4-0 for. So not same market at all. It does show the in flexibility of the supply chain . Hornby were presumably aware it was sold out long before actual production , but could not increase the quantity from whatever factory they were sourcing it from. Just at a critical time for them too, when they needed the cash . While there are advantages in this outsourcing model , mainly cost, there are disadvantages too, mainly inflexibility.

 

Don't forget the cutsie little ex-Dapol L&Y puggie; albeit a bit elderly and not a patch on the Peckett, but still a long way removed from Smokey Joe.

 

That said, there's a clearly demonstrated demand for industrials and not just Pecketts. I still think Bachman must be kicking themselves for struggling with the Wickham instead of doing a wee Barclay, but I live in hope.

[Caledonian]

It's alright. There's only another 136 W4s yet to be done.

 

 

I would expect Bear at one point (which is red), and MSC namers, Daphne, Croxley Mills, Henry Cort, G&SWR/LMS, BR no 1 Hercules from the Ystalyfera Tin Works.

 .

 

 

There are options for dozens of the things with out repetition. A new one every year or so is feasible.

 

 

 

 

Jason

 

Worth bearing in mind the minor minefield that is the cab. The Hornby version has the early cab; at least one of those mentioned above has the late cab.

 

Actually something else bearing in mind is that Pecketts tended to be bought singly rather than in fleets.