Bachmann 2017 range

[wombatofludham]

I really cannot see the economics for Bachmann (or Dapol, DJM or Hornby for that matter) of going for more recent models such as the ....or 86 that some people on here are asking for. Many others will have the current versions and will be happy enough with them to not be prepared to upgrade if a newer model was released, especially as they are by and large good runners.

 

Except Heljan's 86 is no longer in production and even if you ignore the faults with it they only modelled the type in one particular post 1997 condition.  Saying that other manufacturers shouldn't make a Class 86 is rather like saying that as Lima made a Class 47 that did the job no-one else should make one.

 

There were 100 Class 86s made and have been running for over 50 years.  They've carried over a dozen different livery variations, and have been modified visually into three or more different variations.  Heljan released one variation in four liveries.  That's a sufficiently large remaining combination of variants and liveries to allow a decent 86 to sell in steady numbers especially as we now have a confirmed 87 and 90 en-route and the existing 85 in production.

[GordonC]

I'm sorry - what? You have got no right to tell anybody what they can and can't post if it falls within forum guidelines. That's what I would like to see Bachmann produce. I don't have any problem with healthy competition.

 

Dunsignalling above has hit the nail on the head. The cost of producing multiple units are increasing, so what's left for the manufacturers to produce? If Bachmann announce a 4 car Electrostar on Sunday and it takes 2 years to get to shop (optimistic in the current climate) - what's that going to cost? You may be able to afford one but who says everybody else will. Are YOU prepared to guarantee their sales?

 

Yes, Heljan have sold lots of the class 26/27/33 family of loco's but what competition is there?

 

Sorry if you don't like my point of view.

 

Kind regards

 

At the end of the day though all the model manufacturers are businesses ... if they pick wrongly and lose money too often on new models then they wont be around to produce anything!

 

While nearly all models have their faults, I'd be amazed if there was enough demand left that would support any other manufacturer producing more Class 26s, 27s or 33s and making money. The Heljan models are pretty good and lots of them had to be discounted to sell so not sure what another manufacturer would be able to offer to beat the existing offering also bearing in mind the upward rise in prices. I've got 8 26s and 3 27s and wont be in a hurry to replace any of them.

[Edge]

I'm hoping for a surprise addition to the 009 stable. Bachmann's 4-6-0 WD Baldwin looked exceptional at Ally Pally last year

[Melly]

This sort of post has got to stop.

 

I have three of the Heljan class 33s, and if anyone else brings one out I will not buy it and I suspect nor would a lot of other people. I would rather Bachmann spend their hard-earned cash on making something that does not already exist.

 

If you really want Bachmann to make these models, are you prepared to guarantee their sales? In other words, if necessary, will you purchase the whole production run yourself? If not, then please do not post comments like this, which imply that you want Bachmann to make something that will lose them money.

 

And, if you really want Bachmann to produce something to go with the 4TC, why not push (geddit?) for a 4REP?

 

Budgie, I sort of see where you're coming from but also don't !  Recent releases have contained significantly greater detail and fiddly parts to break / lose.  The sprung buffers of Hornby 56 for example.  The small 'o' ring perishes in time so needs replacing but they don't do them as spares.  In the end I glued them which sort highlights the futility of providing that level of detail in the first instance!  Heljan 47's are no longer produced and model railway procedures are following real life with 1 of my fleet being scrapped to keep the others going.  So you have 3 Heljan 33's. . . . . for now!  In time (lack of spares and bad luck) 3 could become 2 and then 1 and then what do you do? 

 

Personally I'm not a Red box fan and would love to be able to replace my 31's and 56's with Blue box ones especially if a different manufacturer can produce more liveries in a shorter time-scale.  Hornby haven't produced a Railfreight 31 without red-stripe (which they haven't done right  . .yet!) or additional BR Blue ones (3rd of those produced affected by the Mazek failure) yet have been prolific with the minority liveries (Regional Railway, Network Rail DCR), the logic of which I struggle to accept. 

 

"I will not buy it and I suspect nor would a lot of other people"

 

 

please don't assume your reasoning is the same as that shared by others. . .  .it's an individualistic hobby; horses for courses and all that.

[steve1023]

At the end of the day though all the model manufacturers are businesses ... if they pick wrongly and lose money too often on new models then they wont be around to produce anything!

 

While nearly all models have their faults, I'd be amazed if there was enough demand left that would support any other manufacturer producing more Class 26s, 27s or 33s and making money. The Heljan models are pretty good and lots of them had to be discounted to sell so not sure what another manufacturer would be able to offer to beat the existing offering also bearing in mind the upward rise in prices. I've got 8 26s and 3 27s and wont be in a hurry to replace any of them.

Hi Gordon. To be honest you couldn't have worded it better. IF they pick wrongly - can probably cover half the models we have available to us right now. Didn't stop Bachmann announcing a new class 47 after Heljan did theirs, didn't stop SLW doing the class 24 after Bachmann had announced theirs,etc etc.

 

Heljan models are pretty good and lots of them had to be discounted to sell!!!!!. Don't really need to add much to that.

 

But you know what - this next comment is going to sound so arrogant - I'm willing to bet a lot of the people on here now saying they wouldn't buy one, actually would.

 

Kind regards.

[The Black Hat]

...yet have been prolific with the minority liveries (Regional Railway, Network Rail DCR), the logic of which I struggle to accept. 

 

 

please don't assume your reasoning is the same as that shared by others. . .  .it's an individualistic hobby; horses for courses and all that.

 

DCR, Network Rail and Regional are not minorities if your modelling a period that's later than yours. Hornby have varied the amount of BR Green / BR Blue / Sector and Privitisation models just about evenly and as mentioned on the Realtrack 156 thread current models always prove popular at the time.

 

Yes Hornby might not have always picked an obvious choice for class 31, as I mentioned earlier, but the first two you have mentioned certainly have proved popular. I think the price pushed the DCR out of reach of many. Had the DCR one been seen often on a test train things might be different, but the current scene effects the smaller railway in ways many fail to realise and that is probably the biggest reason why DCR might not have been so prolific as others.

 

Still, its an individualistic hobby, horses for courses and all that....

[bart2day]

I'm sorry - what? You have got no right to tell anybody what they can and can't post if it falls within forum guidelines. That's what I would like to see Bachmann produce. I don't have any problem with healthy competition.

Dunsignalling above has hit the nail on the head. The cost of producing multiple units are increasing, so what's left for the manufacturers to produce? If Bachmann announce a 4 car Electrostar on Sunday and it takes 2 years to get to shop (optimistic in the current climate) - what's that going to cost? You may be able to afford one but who says everybody else will. Are YOU prepared to guarantee their sales?

Yes, Heljan have sold lots of the class 26/27/33 family of loco's but what competition is there?

Sorry if you don't like my point of view.

Kind regards

I would probably buy three electrostars regardless of price because they are my favourite EMU. Plus they haven't been done before so don't see why they wouldn't sell well especially given the number of potential liveries.

 

I think the manufacturers should concentrate in producing models which have not been done before or in new liveries before they start re-releasing existing ones.

[JSpencer]

I'm sorry... The U class might not be a good choice because it looks similar to the N class?

 

Have you SEEN the GWR?!?

 

There are more Us in preservation than Ns. It could share a lot. The problem is the N is too recent to be brought up Bachmann's latest chassis standard yet too old to tool up the missing parts to do a U.

[Fenman]

I would probably buy three electrostars regardless of price because they are my favourite EMU. ...

 

 

The Macquarie Rail-financed Stansted Express 379s come off lease shortly, with no new home to go to, as Anglia are replacing them with brand-new Stadlers. You could probably get them for a decent price anyway, but if you bought three, well, there'd be a discount for bulk, I imagine.  

 

Paul 

[Mr chapman]

There are more Us in preservation than Ns. It could share a lot. The problem is the N is too recent to be brought up Bachmann's latest chassis standard yet too old to tool up the missing parts to do a U.

Truth be told I'm surprised Hornby haven't jumped on the U. Or even DJM as it would be wide open in multiple scales.

[Andy W]

There are more Us in preservation than Ns. It could share a lot. The problem is the N is too recent to be brought up Bachmann's latest chassis standard yet too old to tool up the missing parts to do a U.

In what way does the N differ from Bachmann's latest chassis standard? I thought it has always had a conventional chassis - not split, and the tooling now allows for the most recent versions to be offered as DCC ready/onboard.

As far as I know (please correct me if I'm wrong) the only Bachmann steam locos that don't follow their modern chassis standards on recent releases are:

J39, J72 (both already announced to receive upgraded chassis), Royal Scot (unrebuilt Scot already announced as to receive upgraded chassis), Lord Nelson, Manor, and 43xx/93xx 2-6-0.

[Hilux5972]

Have you SEEN the GWR?!?

Obviously your not a GWR man then? To those of us who are, we can spot every different class a mile away by their differences. If you think the GWR locos look the same, try differentiating between the Original Merchant Navy, Battle of Britain, and West Country, and then of course the rebuilt versions all look the same too.

[Steamport Southport]

There are more Us in preservation than Ns. It could share a lot. The problem is the N is too recent to be brought up Bachmann's latest chassis standard yet too old to tool up the missing parts to do a U.

 

The Us don't even share much with each other, never mind the Ns.

 

Is it another case of "they all look the same, so they must all be the same" like GWR 4-6-0s?

 

Nicked from the SEMG http://www.semgonline.com/steam/uclass_2.html

 

 

 

Throughout the life of the class there were detail differences underlining the need for modellers to obtain a good photograph of a specific engine. As originally built the class had piston tail rods, tapered chimneys and smokebox snifting valves. As with the N class the tail rods and snifting valves were removed and new chimneys of the U1 pattern fitted. Later builds of the class had a flatter top to their dome covers. Short smoke deflectors were fitted, as with all Maunsell Moguls, from 1933. The class either hauled 3500 gallon capacity tenders with straight sides or larger 4000 gallon tenders with turned in tops to their sides. From 1955 twenty three of the class were fitted with varying combinations of new cylinders with outside steam pipes and a BR pattern chimney. A fewer number also received new frames with a gentler curve between the buffer beam and smokebox

 

Now try and make a general "suits all" model out of that.

 

 

Jason

[tomparryharry]

The Us don't even share much with each other, never mind the Ns.

 

Is it another case of "they all look the same, so they must all be the same" like GWR 4-6-0s?

 

Nicked from the SEMG http://www.semgonline.com/steam/uclass_2.html

 

 

Now try and make a general "suits all" model out of that.

 

 

Jason

I don't know, you Southern modellers.......

 

Hat, Coat, Taxi!!!!

 

Ian

[Melly]

DCR, Network Rail and Regional are not minorities if your modelling a period that's later than yours. Hornby have varied the amount of BR Green / BR Blue / Sector and Privitisation models just about evenly and as mentioned on the Realtrack 156 thread current models always prove popular at the time.

 

 

 

I think perhaps I was not crystal clear in the point I was trying to make.  In calling them minority liveries I was referring to the ratio of numbers of that class of loco that carried that livery.  With the Regional Railways livery and headlight positioning limited number of re-numbering options were available with the loco produced.  With a BR Blue loco considerably greater permutations are available.

[phil-b259]

There are more Us in preservation than Ns. It could share a lot. The problem is the N is too recent to be brought up Bachmann's latest chassis standard yet too old to tool up the missing parts to do a U.

 

The N class was one of the first of Bachmann's "Blue Ribbon" releases in the late 90s - along with a totally new Collett Goods 0-6-0 and were of conventional construction. They did however lack a DCC socket until recently - which is more due to the fact that in the late 90s hardly any models had such a provision and the DCC part of the industry was just finding its feet.

 

The two biggest drawbacks of the N are actually the rather over complicated loco - tender draw bar and rather oversized lamp brackets compared to what has been achieved on pretty much every other release from the era. Naturally some may also bemoan the lack of provision of DCC sound - or tender pick ups, but again these features were not considered necessary at the time the N was designed.

 

Also what many posters fail to appreciate that while the N and U looked visually similar, the actual dimensions were different in most key areas - in other word the tooling for the N class cannot be altered to produce a U while still being able to make a N as well. You are basically needing to tool up an entirely new loco - with only the tender being shareable between the two. Bachmann are on record as saying they have considered producing a U from the N tooling but rejected it precisely of theses factors

 

There is also the question of whether Bachmann would actually want to introduce a U given its visual similarity to most casual observers. Yes enthusiasts would appreciate the difference but as has been shown before, far too many modellers seem to forget that Bachmann, etc are running a business and in that enviroment sales potential is not the same thing as people writing on a fourm that the bet "it would sell loads because of X, Y & Z"

[Oldddudders]

There is also the question of whether Bachmann would actually want to introduce a U given its visual similarity to most casual observers. Yes enthusiasts would appreciate the difference but as has been shown before, far too many modellers seem to forget that Bachmann, etc are running a business and in that enviroment sales potential is not the same thing as people writing on a fourm that the bet "it would sell loads because of X, Y & Z"

 

They may be watching Hornby. After all, the N15 and S15 are comparably similar and dissimilar, yet each appears to be selling quite well. The market can be more discerning than is sometimes thought. 

[PenrithBeacon]

This sort of post has got to stop.

 

I have three of the Heljan class 33s, and if anyone else brings one out I will not buy it and I suspect nor would a lot of other people. I would rather Bachmann spend their hard-earned cash on making something that does not already exist.

 

If you really want Bachmann to make these models, are you prepared to guarantee their sales? In other words, if necessary, will you purchase the whole production run yourself? If not, then please do not post comments like this, which imply that you want Bachmann to make something that will lose them money.

 

And, if you really want Bachmann to produce something to go with the 4TC, why not push (geddit?) for a 4REP?

Strange post!

[John M Upton]

Still hoping for a 3MT Standard tender myself.  Did I imagine it or did Bachmann announce their intention to do the headcode box fitted Class 24/1s?

[Neal Ball]

When I start this thread on 1st December, having just read the collectors club magazine, I thought we would have 11 pages of "can you make product x, in the livery of company DSA Plc" rather than someone recently resorting to tell someone off on-line.

 

Generally I disagree with someone saying that 3rd rivet on the left is 1/8 inch too small etc. Or should be a thou further over! When in fact they are missing the point that the majority of people won't know and those that do, will be pleased to see their favourite loco updated for the first time in 40 years.

 

As for someone's choice of loco being a silly choice, not really, it's their choice.

 

This is a hobby, let's get back, have some fun and a bit of frothing! Anyone for a Toplight? Lol

[Roy Langridge]

Still hoping for a 3MT Standard tender myself. Did I imagine it or did Bachmann announce their intention to do the headcode box fitted Class 24/1s?

Yes they did. Not been formally dropped but given the SLW Class 24 and impending announcement, it may quietly disappear.

 

Roy

[wombatofludham]

Did I imagine it or did Bachmann announce their intention to do the headcode box fitted Class 24/1s?

 

I think they did, sometime during the Ming dynasty if I recall.  I also gather there have been hieroglyphics found by archaeologists in Egypt announcing a retooled Class 158 a couple of thousand years ago.

[JSpencer]

The Us don't even share much with each other, never mind the Ns.

 

Is it another case of "they all look the same, so they must all be the same" like GWR 4-6-0s?

 

Nicked from the SEMG http://www.semgonline.com/steam/uclass_2.html

 

 

 

Now try and make a general "suits all" model out of that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jason

 

The detail differences are what the locos went through during their lives. To be honest Bachmanns N shows similar detailed differences.

[Budgie]

I'm sorry - what? You have got no right to tell anybody what they can and can't post if it falls within forum guidelines. That's what I would like to see Bachmann produce. I don't have any problem with healthy competition.

I don't have a problem with healthy competition, either. But this wouldn't be healthy competition. Because there is already a large number of class 33s out there, the market for any newcomer is much reduced. So if Bachmann were to produce one they would be spending money that that have no guarantee of getting back, because there is no guarantee that they will sell all the models they produce as a result of saturation of the market by Heljan's models.

 

Dunsignalling above has hit the nail on the head. The cost of producing multiple units are increasing, so what's left for the manufacturers to produce? If Bachmann announce a 4 car Electrostar on Sunday and it takes 2 years to get to shop (optimistic in the current climate) - what's that going to cost? You may be able to afford one but who says everybody else will. Are YOU prepared to guarantee their sales?

The Electrostar is a completely new model, and anyone making one would not have competition from other manufacturers. They would expect to sell all the models they make, so nobody would have to guarantee their sales.

 

Yes, Heljan have sold lots of the class 26/27/33 family of loco's but what competition is there?

What competition is there for most of the locomotives that Hornby, Heljan and Dapol make? Are you suggesting that Bachmann should duplicate everything just for the sake of competition? That would be the quickest route to bankruptcy.

 

 

At the end of the day though all the model manufacturers are businesses ... if they pick wrongly and lose money too often on new models then they wont be around to produce anything!

 

While nearly all models have their faults, I'd be amazed if there was enough demand left that would support any other manufacturer producing more Class 26s, 27s or 33s and making money. The Heljan models are pretty good and lots of them had to be discounted to sell so not sure what another manufacturer would be able to offer to beat the existing offering also bearing in mind the upward rise in prices. I've got 8 26s and 3 27s and wont be in a hurry to replace any of them.

 

I agree entirely with this.

 

Budgie, I sort of see where you're coming from but also don't !  Recent releases have contained significantly greater detail and fiddly parts to break / lose.  The sprung buffers of Hornby 56 for example.  The small 'o' ring perishes in time so needs replacing but they don't do them as spares.  In the end I glued them which sort highlights the futility of providing that level of detail in the first instance!  Heljan 47's are no longer produced and model railway procedures are following real life with 1 of my fleet being scrapped to keep the others going.  So you have 3 Heljan 33's. . . . . for now!  In time (lack of spares and bad luck) 3 could become 2 and then 1 and then what do you do?

That circumstance is unlikely to occur for a fair length of time, at least five and more like ten years' time. That is the timescale, I would suggest, for other manufacturers to bring out updated duplicates, not now.

 

Personally I'm not a Red box fan and would love to be able to replace my 31's and 56's with Blue box ones especially if a different manufacturer can produce more liveries in a shorter time-scale.  Hornby haven't produced a Railfreight 31 without red-stripe (which they haven't done right  . .yet!) or additional BR Blue ones (3rd of those produced affected by the Mazek failure) yet have been prolific with the minority liveries (Regional Railway, Network Rail DCR), the logic of which I struggle to accept. 

 

please don't assume your reasoning is the same as that shared by others. . .  .it's an individualistic hobby; horses for courses and all that.

I don't assume that everybody shares my views; but I do assume that sales of any newly-introduced duplicate of an existing model will not be as high as those of a completely new model because other people who may already have one or some may prefer to spend their hard-earned on something else.

[Budgie]

Strange post!

I'm a strange person!