TonyA Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 One thing that I have not seen mentioned (apologies if I missed it) is the change to BST which on any other weekend would be equivalent to closing at 18:00 on Saturday. In the old days, the show was in the week after Easter when you normally avoided the change of the clocks and had a Bank Holiday as well. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 The only time I've helped at Warley was in 1994, and even then it was very quiet for the last two hours on Saturday when it was open until 8pm, which is the reason why later closing times were generally curtailed. Also from memory, major shows in March/Easter such as Kidderminster, Nottingham, Imrex and York used to be in the centre of conurbations and had easier public transport links, instead of being out of town as they now are. Even Leamington moved to a rural location, but has recently moved back into the town centre. I'd also agree that there are more shows, but not necessarily an increase in patronage-if anything visitors numbers have dropped off significantly over the last 20 years or so, which means costs have to be closely monitored and belts tightened, and inevitable price rises for both traders and visitors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymsa Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 One thing that I have not seen mentioned (apologies if I missed it) is the change to BST which on any other weekend would be equivalent to closing at 18:00 on Saturday. In the old days, the show was in the week after Easter when you normally avoided the change of the clocks and had a Bank Holiday as well. Tony The only effect of bst and clocks going forward would be less time between the Saturday and Sunday show. Other than that time is relative Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 (edited) Exhibition Opening Hours In 1976 the opening times of four of the major shows were as follows: MRC, Central Hall Monday 10.30 - 18.00 Tuesday 10.30 - 21.00 Wednesday 10.30 - 21.00 Thursday 10.30 - 21.00 Friday 10.30 - 21.00 Saturday 10.30 - 18.00 York Saturday 10.15 - 20.00 Monday 10.15 - 20.00 Tuesday 10.15 - 19.00 Bristol Thursday 10.00 - 21.00 Friday 10.00 - 19.00 Saturday 10.00 - 19.00 Manchester Friday 12.00 - 21.00 Saturday 10.00 - 21.00 Sunday 10.00 - 18.00 Perhaps in those days exhibitors were made of sterner stuff. I think, as TBG says, that it's more that there were far fewer shows in those days. As a youngster - a bit earlier than 1976 - I remember going to Central Hall with my Dad from Oxford and maybe going to one local exhibition each year but that really was about it. In those days you could of course drive into central London and expect to park on the side streets around Central Hall. The MRC Easter show was the major events in many a modeller's calendar and would often get extensive preview and reportage in the modelling press but exhibitions in general seemed to play far less of a central role in the hobby. For many modellers, having their layout invited to the MRC show (was it the same for the other "majors"?) was the highlight not just of their year but quite possibly of their modelling career. Because it was such an occasion, clubs in particular could be mob handed, often with rosters of operators to cover multiple days. One private layout I know that would have required three or four five or six operators involved something like twenty forty people or more across the six days. One-day local shows tended to be just that with layouts coming from the local region if not area. With far more local model railway shops (mine was Howes in Broad St. Oxford) I think fewer modellers expected to make their major purchases at exhibitions. Edited April 5, 2018 by Pacific231G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted March 30, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 30, 2018 The only effect of bst and clocks going forward would be less time between the Saturday and Sunday show. Other than that time is relative Andy Less eating/drinking/sleeping time for the overworked exhibitors......... Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymsa Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Less eating/drinking/sleeping time for the overworked exhibitors......... Cheers, Mick Maybe some masseurs should of been brought in for those weary bodies Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted March 30, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 30, 2018 In my first show as a member of Leeds MRS (1976) the show did full days Thursday, Friday and Saturday. (finishing at 9pm Saturday evening). It was held in the Corn Exchange in the centre of the City. Not many other show in the local were taking place on the same weekend (last full weekend in October). When we moved to Armley we had Friday night, Saturday and Sunday all day. Eventually the numbers through the door on Friday didn't make it financially sensible to open on Friday so we now have Saturday and Sunday only at an out of town location (The Grammar School at Leeds) Personally I don't like Friday evening openings as it means you are tired before the longer Saturday openings - which can lead to some expensive mistakes on layouts. (Trust me I have seen this on more than one occasion). The accommodation in London was not too far away but the finish time on Saturday meant we hit the North Circular at a bad time and I did miss the hours' sleep on Sunday. As TBG says we have a lot more shows now than in 1976 but just about the same number of traders and visitors spread across them. Bearing in mind in 1976 RTR was limited to one trader.. but they were seen as "specialist" in those days. We had no shows organised by Commercial Organisations it was all Clubs who fed the money directly back into the hobby. Baz 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ruggedpeak Posted March 30, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 30, 2018 I have not seen note of it anywhere on RMWeb, but Colin of Alan Gibson has been ill and stocks of parts have been short. The answer machine now says he is getting back to normal with lots of messages of support being received. I got the last sets of Gibson wheels for 2 Cambrian kits I bought from H&A, who explained about the reasons for a lack of stock was due to illness. Not a trader or show issue. Glad to hear all is back to normal. I would say that even at big shows there is sometimes a lull on stands, and I've certainly managed to have reasonably in-depth conversations with the likes of Ben Ando of Revolution and Charlie of DC Kits at Warley in the past when they had a quiet moment. That said I had a long and interesting chat with Mark of Make Your Mark Models at the Colchester Show a year or two back - he does local shows rather than the big ones http://www.makeyourmarkmodels.com/page18.htm I tend to meander around shows and pounce where there are gaps rather than trying to fight through the hordes! Works well, especially on Sundays. I have travelled around the country on occasions to smaller shows as you do get to see many more layouts and a greater variety of traders. I think local shows are as useful as the big ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted March 30, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 30, 2018 The problem with friday opening, from a traders point of view in my experience, is that most of the business is done on friday leaving a quiet rest of the weekend, to such an extent that, financially, it might as well be a one day show, which would be a lot cheaper on traders expenses. From talking to attendees, quite a few use a friday visit to leave the rest of the weekend free, and I'm not convinced the extra costs involved with a 3 day show, other maybe than ones on bank holidays, are worth it for the supposed extra attendance. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Charlie of DC Kits ....had a quiet moment. Are you sure you weren't talking to someone else? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ruggedpeak Posted March 31, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) Are you sure you weren't talking to someone else? To be fair I didn't do much of the talking.......... And my chat with Ben Ando was mostly about archaeological digs in Norfolk! Edited March 31, 2018 by ruggedpeak Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Archaeological digs. I think that's where I stayed when I was a student. Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigP Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) -- Edited January 31, 2021 by bigP Deleted Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenman Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Archaeological digs. I think that's where I stayed when I was a student. Geoff Endacott The first archaeological dig I worked on was in Norfolk, at the delightfully named Spong Hill (near North Elmham - which is nearly the northernmost point of the MNR extension). A vast Anglo-Saxon cemetery (and a bit of a settlement), which yielded a ceramic pot lid in the form of a seated figure, now known as Spong Man, and in the British Museum. Paul 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ruggedpeak Posted March 31, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 31, 2018 Archaeological digs. I think that's where I stayed when I was a student. Geoff Endacott The first archaeological dig I worked on was in Norfolk, at the delightfully named Spong Hill (near North Elmham - which is nearly the northernmost point of the MNR extension). A vast Anglo-Saxon cemetery (and a bit of a settlement), which yielded a ceramic pot lid in the form of a seated figure, now known as Spong Man, and in the British Museum. Paul Here's Ben in action, this is what we were discussing at Warley! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-37940012 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium rab Posted March 31, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 31, 2018 Here's Ben in action, this is what we were discussing at Warley! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-37940012 That's this thread dead and buried then Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 And younger........ Yep. Plus the roads are a hell of a lot busier now meaning it takes longer to get there, requiring an earlier start out (leaving home) time just to get there and to set up for the opening, and getting home later in the evening despite the show closing earlier now. And people now work longer, with shifts and more unsociable hours so have less time to commit to exhibiting. G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Here's Ben in action, this is what we were discussing at Warley! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-37940012 Disappointed, not a single reference of the Pendolino or RevolutioN in that interview. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UMinion Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 Ally Pally and Warley are two that have fallen by the wayside. Selling smaller items means you have to deal with lots of customers to take as much money as somebody selling one RTR loco. That is really what it comes down to. There are a number of specialist Society shows over the year and if you want the specialist traders, then these are the ones to go for. If you talk to traders, yes the cash flow is good on an RTR loco but the profit to the trader is very small indeed. I spoke to one at a show who was only making a few pounds on a £100+ loco Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 5, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 5, 2018 Hmm, I must admit to being late (maybe even far too late?) to this thread but I'm really trying to work out what enough there's any fuss about. Shows have changed over the years for all sorts of reasons but mainly because the hobby has changed, the trade support has changed, and we live in a much changed world. Shows are only 'difficult to get to' if you don't live relatively close at hand or, in some cases, can't drive a car - Ally Pally is getting on for two hours each way for me although that would be slightly less if our train journey to/from London was as quick as it was 50 years ago (honest). I like the York show but it is 4 hours each way unless I stay in York but on the other hand Railex is only a 45 minute drive or less if the roads are clear. So don't blame accessibility on the show - almost all in the largish shows in harder to reach locations, and in some in not so hard to reach locations, have a courtesy 'bus nowadays which makes even Stafford doable for me by public transport and Trainwest is a doddle. Back to where I started - accessibility can be influenced quite a lot by where you live and that isn't the organisers' fault but don't overlook the fact that for most travelling any sort of distance train services to the nearest station are probably quicker and far more numerous than they were years ago (although local 'bus services in some places definitely aren't) while cars are definitely a lot more comfortable than they were in the past. And accessibility goes hand in hand with opening hours for many attendees - I regularly did the Bristol show on Friday afternoon/evening in its Cannons Marsh venue as it meant, at worst, only a half day off work. The present venue has its good points and its bad points but it's still accessible and if it stayed open later on Friday it would be a nuisance for many longer distance visitors to get home. But don't forget the important factor in modern shows - exhibitors and traders are now often travelling much longer distances to get there than used to be the case. The days of 'local' traders and layouts are long gone from the big shows - just imagine the 'London Festival' served only by layouts and traders from within, say 40 miles of London, I suspect the trade showing would be somewhat on the sparse side. As far as Ally Pally is concerned it's a marvellous venue in a superb site with great views from just outside. It has good public transport links with the frequent W3 'bus route right to the door, and that 'bus serves 4 railway stations (a mix of UndergrounD and real trains) all of which have frequent services on their respective lines, There is a station within walking distance for those so inclined to try the hill (if the weather allows). One's ability or otherwise to get to the 'bus or rail routes isn't Ally Pally's problem - it depends where you live but even with a substantial chunk of the UndergrounD closed on the weekend of the exhibition it was hardly a difficult task. BTW it was a darned good show once I got there! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Mike makes some very good points including that the hobby has changed. The number of exhibitions has also, or so it seems, increased considerably. There were a great number of A5 show flyers available at the York show which gave the impression you could attend a show every week within a reasonable travel distance. It appears every club wants to run a show, a mix of providing additional club funds and not being left behind in the status race. One of the downsides of the greater number of shows is that the quality of layouts on display has possibly suffered, some layouts appear too frequently, trade attendance is thinner. There is only one show within ninety minutes of my home that I have visited and would go again. Another has about 40% of the venue filled with tables of S/H tat. Has attending shows become a hobby in its own right? Taking photos and videos and then posting them on RMweb (even when of indifferent quality) appears to be another significant pastime. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted April 5, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 5, 2018 If you talk to traders, yes the cash flow is good on an RTR loco but the profit to the trader is very small indeed. I spoke to one at a show who was only making a few pounds on a £100+ loco That is why I used the phrase "taking money" rather than "making profit". 10 people spending £10 each represents lots more work for the trader than one person spending £100, even if profit margin on the multiple smaller sales may be bigger. I was referring to the admin and work side rather than the profit. If a specialist trader can keep him or herself working at full capacity doing internet/mail order, very often their biggest resource problem is time. Having a very busy weekend at a large show, with all the expense involved, may mean that they earn less profit than they would have done back at base, producing and packing products for mail orders. They need to balance this with the need to let people know they exist and giving people chance to see the products first hand. Which is why some of them are concentrating on the sorts of shows where the people who buy their products go and which are much less expensive to attend. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted April 5, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 5, 2018 Hmm, I must admit to being late ... much edited.....hardly a difficult task. BTW it was a darned good show once I got there! Yes it was. Loads of very nice visitors who haven't moaned about opening times, wrong traders, wrong layouts and wrong venue, but enjoyed themselves. I arrived early on the Friday to set up the layout I was operating. I had to wait for the layout to turn up, the park around Alexandra Palace is lovely to walk around in the sunshine. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 6, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 6, 2018 Mike makes some very good points including that the hobby has changed. The number of exhibitions has also, or so it seems, increased considerably. There were a great number of A5 show flyers available at the York show which gave the impression you could attend a show every week within a reasonable travel distance. It appears every club wants to run a show, a mix of providing additional club funds and not being left behind in the status race. One of the downsides of the greater number of shows is that the quality of layouts on display has possibly suffered, some layouts appear too frequently, trade attendance is thinner. There is only one show within ninety minutes of my home that I have visited and would go again. Another has about 40% of the venue filled with tables of S/H tat. Has attending shows become a hobby in its own right? Taking photos and videos and then posting them on RMweb (even when of indifferent quality) appears to be another significant pastime. A very telling point is the one about layouts appearing frequently. I attend a reasonable number of shows every year because I happen to live within striking distance of those where I can get a reasonably comfortable journey and it is telling how many layouts, especially some of the better ones, crop up more than once. Hence at Ally Pally there were a number of layouts I'd seen before (and was mostly more than happy to see again) as well as more than a few I'd never seen before. But for me that opens up another question - why do we go to shows? I find the social side, often involving people who would otherwise just be names on here as well as various old friends and work colleagues as much a part of show attendance as many other aspects. Equally it's nice to see layouts which particularly interest me although I very rarely see every layout at the large shows such as Ally Pally and Warley. And I sometimes go with a shopping list of items I can't find by another route plus there are always a number of traders I would like, and sometimes need, to have a chat with. And of course it's a nice day out (in almost every case) 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginelane Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 Yes it was. Loads of very nice visitors who haven't moaned about opening times, wrong traders, wrong layouts and wrong venue, but enjoyed themselves. I arrived early on the Friday to set up the layout I was operating. I had to wait for the layout to turn up, the park around Alexandra Palace is lovely to walk around in the sunshine. Ally Pally is I think my favourite building to exhibit in. I can think of no one where else I have exhibited that can provide the view literally from stepping out of the venue 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now