KR Models announce the Bulleid Leader

[Graham_Muz]

Eg this picture below (cropped to preserve copyright) 

[cctransuk]

11 hours ago, Graham_Muz said:

 

I see what is meant by the Leader towering over coaches! (Only joking)!

 

CJI.

[The Stationmaster]

14 hours ago, phil gollin said:

.

 

The way the funnel is level (?) with the roof of the loco - I have always wondered how the smoke cleared the body and sides ?

 

Any reports from the trials ?

 

.

Distinct problems with the draughting (not smoke lifting but draughting - not quite the same thing) resulting in various changes although they seem to have the unfortunate side effect of altering the airflow in the firebox resulting in flames 'licking the firehole door' making the Fireman's job even worse.

 

19 hours ago, bigherb said:

Which means it is around 8" higher than even MK1 coaches.

Maybe - but 13ft 1" was not an exceptional height being no different from various existing SR classes and in fact at maximum height it was lower than the maximum height of an M7.    BTW

 

Some other companies of course had even higher engines but again 13ft 1" was far from unusual so the Leader was not unusually high although it was high at cantrail level

[bigherb]

56 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

 

 

Maybe - but 13ft 1" was not an exceptional height being no different from various existing SR classes and in fact at maximum height it was lower than the maximum height of an M7.    BTW

 

 

Yes, but but they didn't have a 13' high end butting up to a 12'  coach making them look tall.

[Bluebell Model Railway]

On 02/07/2023 at 08:38, TrevorP1 said:

All of this is such a shame, when especially and remarkably for a ‘one off’ ( at least operationally) there is so much information out there, not to mention offers of help…

 

I’ve not given up hope but on the strength of what we’ve seen my wallet remains firmly closed.

Indeed they were offered feedback and help but unfortunately it doesn't seem they took any of it up.... and usually you get a odd reply like... We got something right then... almost taking it personally rather than, thank you we will look in to it.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Bluebell Model Railway

[The Stationmaster]

3 hours ago, bigherb said:

Yes, but but they didn't have a 13' high end butting up to a 12'  coach making them look tall.

An LMS Proncess Coronation origina;l ism n't that much under 13ft high and neither was an LNER corrridor tender. A low aec coach roof is going to look low next to all sorts of big engines. 

[Wickham Green too]

14 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

An LMS Proncess Coronation original isn't that much under 13ft high and neither was an LNER corridor tender. A low arc coach roof is going to look low next to all sorts of big engines. 

Most 'big engines' weren't full height to each end, though - so comparison's not so simple.

[Bluebell Model Railway]

I have a bit more information since some of the Deco samples were shown, as I was away at the time when I email KR... yes they do respond... sometimes.

I still was looking for some clarification even as far back as March... as I was told "We are going through Leader with a fine tooth comb..." I did wonder how fine that comb was.
So I wanted to know what is being changed... or improved... and why is the body shell so high off the chassis.. I got some answers but not really a whole answer... even though I outlined what I was asking... 

Anyway...
So...
 

Quote

Hi Matt,

 

I think what you are asking is have we have fixed the missing parts from the first EP sample and that is yes.  The reverser has been added now, and we are working on fixing the chain covers as they have very little support and then there's the paint which we have now corrected.  

 

Kind Regards

 

Keith Revell

Managing Director

 

KR Models Ltd

www.krmodels.net

keith@krmodels.co.uk

I was actually asking about the 20 odd errors on it... but hey ho... 

Regarding the height of body shell....
 

Quote

The body was an issue with the PCB, the sound decoder was lifting the body up higher than it should be.  Plus the clips were not good enough.

 

Kind Regards

 

Keith Revell

Managing Director

 

KR Models Ltd

www.krmodels.net

keith@krmodels.co.uk

So that's it really, a small update not many, I was kind of hoping for a little more but yea I guess, roof shape, number of vacuum cylinders, handrail position on door... are probably going to remain the same. I still haven't seen one move... 😄

[JSpencer]

A close view of a decorated running sample in the @Jenny Emily video here:

 

 

 

I am wondering about the first livery, whether it was more grey or something nearing silver as shown here 🧐   if it was silver like, then does this mean the body work was unpainted Aluminum when she left the works? 

 

Since unpainted steel would rust quickly (and would be darker), though an Aluminum body panels on a steel frame is a terrible combination and would have accelerate the rate at which steel rusts without something blocking it.

It could be galvanized steel panels but that leaves a certain pattern not seen in any photos.

 

 

 

 

 

[Ryde-on-time]

Shouldn’t it have BFB wheels of a similar style to the Bulleid Pacific’s. They look really weird and wrong in the video (side on at 21:11 for instance) and you shouldn’t be able to see through as much when running?

[wainwright1]

I bet the fireman wore a truss with coal lumps that big !

[wainwright1]

Having watched the full video and at some of the previous pictures.

The mechanical details, weighting and performance look impressive.

It looks like they have reduced the size of the fireman's window which is hopefully now correct.

The rivets do not appear to have been apparent in the previous pictures, so a new addition ? Mind you, if they were countersunk, they would not really have been visible.

 

The overall appearance is good. I look forward to receiving my pre-ordered one.

 

Ray

[JZ]

19 minutes ago, Ryde-on-time said:

Shouldn’t it have BFB wheels of a similar style to the Bulleid Pacific’s. They look really weird and wrong in the video (side on at 21:11 for instance) and you shouldn’t be able to see through as much when running?

The wheels do look odd, don't they. You shouldn't be able to see through them. They should be the same at the Q1.

[Edge]

16 minutes ago, Ryde-on-time said:

Shouldn’t it have BFB wheels of a similar style to the Bulleid Pacific’s. They look really weird and wrong in the video (side on at 21:11 for instance) and you shouldn’t be able to see through as much when running?

The real thing used wheels more or less identical to the Q1s, rather than the Pacifics. I agree that the light is showing through a lot on them, but it could just be that we are used to seeing BFB wheels with steam loco frames behind them, rather than a bogie arrangement.

 

my own wish is that they sort that coal out. Scale wise, some of those lumps are about as big as an adult human, which I’m pretty sure wouldn’t be allowed :)

[Graham_Muz]

1 hour ago, JSpencer said:

A close view of a decorated running sample in the @Jenny Emily video here:

 

 

 

I am wondering about the first livery, whether it was more grey or something nearing silver as shown here 🧐   if it was silver like, then does this mean the body work was unpainted Aluminum when she left the works? 

 

Since unpainted steel would rust quickly (and would be darker), though an Aluminum body panels on a steel frame is a terrible combination and would have accelerate the rate at which steel rusts without something blocking it.

It could be galvanized steel panels but that leaves a certain pattern not seen in any photos.

 

 

It was painted grey, although it was noted as being 'silver grey' that a hue of grey not silver 

 

19 minutes ago, Ryde-on-time said:

Shouldn’t it have BFB wheels of a similar style to the Bulleid Pacific’s. They look really weird and wrong in the video (side on at 21:11 for instance) and you shouldn’t be able to see through as much when running?

 

Yes they were 5'1" BFB wheels the same as the Q1 class but without the coupling  rod boss.

[wainwright1]

3 minutes ago, Edge said:

my own wish is that they sort that coal out. Scale wise, some of those lumps are about as big as an adult human, which I’m pretty sure wouldn’t be allowed :)

That should be fairly easy to correct.

 

3 minutes ago, Graham_Muz said:

 

It was painted grey, although it was noted as being 'silver grey' that a hue of grey not silver 

 

Again, this can be amended at the production stage. Hopefully, they will get it right !

[Wickham Green too]

18 minutes ago, Edge said:

...some of those lumps are about as big as an adult human, which I’m pretty sure wouldn’t be allowed :)

Probably wouldn't be available - they'd have to fit into a mine tub before raising to the surface !

19 minutes ago, Graham_Muz said:

Yes they were 5'1" BFB wheels the same as the Q1 class but without the coupling  rod boss.

... and BFB wheels always had holes ........ though 21.11 suggests these might be a tad too large.

[decauville1126]

On 21/09/2023 at 10:56, Graham_Muz said:

 

Yes they were 5'1" BFB wheels the same as the Q1 class but without the coupling  rod boss.

 

Not quite the same as a Q1 methinks - those have a definite doming where the centre meets the tyre whereas Leader's are flatish-faced as per the pacifics. Kevin Robertson's excellent composite book has plenty of images of the wheelsets.

 

Which seems to rule out the idea of using Gibson Q1 wheels for a quick P4 conversion, much to my chagrin. Might have to be a lathe job to skim off the tyres and fit P4 ones, or reprofile the existing ones with the form tool available from the Scalefour Society. Or possibly face skim the Gibson Q1 ones - I have a set (somewhere...) with a Little Engines Q1 kit.

 

I'll just have to await my long pre-paid one to arrive, but I'm mightily impressed thus far - barring the coal!

[uax6]

On 21/09/2023 at 09:16, JSpencer said:

I am wondering about the first livery, whether it was more grey or something nearing silver as shown here 🧐   if it was silver like, then does this mean the body work was unpainted Aluminum when she left the works? 

 

Since unpainted steel would rust quickly (and would be darker), though an Aluminum body panels on a steel frame is a terrible combination and would have accelerate the rate at which steel rusts without something blocking it.

It could be galvanized steel panels but that leaves a certain pattern not seen in any photos.

 

Steel paneling. I've not got Kev's book to hand (I'm in work, its at home!), but I would have said more grey than silver paint. 

 

Andy G

Edited September 24, 2023 by uax6

[New Haven Neil]

They've missed the fact that the larger oval recesses in the wheels actually have a back, with a small hole - they have made the oval completely open hence the odd look.

[Edge]

There are some pics of it in plain silver and being repainted to the grey.
 

Colour photos are not at all common, but I seem to recall a photo where the engine was a backdrop for a group of gentlemen with the loco very definitely in silver and with a cycling lion crest visible. Although it is possible that I’m making that up…

 

as always, I have no knowledge of the true copyright for the attached images, so if the copyright holder wishes them credited or removed, I’m only too happy to do so

 

Edit - found a b+w photo of the image I was talking about in Kevin Robertson’s book. The colour in it is obviously a tad ambiguous, but I think it gleams a bit more than the grey paint it most often carried, which was very dull in finish. I think that there is reasonable grounds to base the sample model that Jenny had as being an ex-works ‘leader’.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Edge
Add new photo

[cctransuk]

27 minutes ago, Edge said:

There are some pics of it in plain silver and being repainted to the grey.
 

Colour photos are not at all common, but I seem to recall a photo where the engine was a backdrop for a group of gentlemen with the loco very definitely in silver and with a cycling lion crest visible. Although it is possible that I’m making that up…

 

as always, I have no knowledge of the true copyright for the attached images, so if the copyright holder wishes them credited or removed, I’m only too happy to do so

 

Edit - found a b+w photo of the image I was talking about in Kevin Robertson’s book. The colour in it is obviously a tad ambiguous, but I think it gleams a bit more than the grey paint it most often carried, which was very dull in finish. I think that there is reasonable grounds to base the sample model that Jenny had as being an ex-works ‘leader’.

 

Now - what follows may be completely irrelevant.

 

However, I do know that galvanised steel requires what is known as a mordant solution to be applied before conventional painting can be undertaken.

 

The solution deactivates the surface of the galvanising, such that paint will adhere. The visual effect of applying the solution is to dull the shiny bright surface of the galvanising to a satin / matt grey. Is this what we see being undertaken in the second image above?

 

If this is the case, the original finish was shiny 'silver', but the as-released finish (with insignia) was a satin / matt metallic grey - not grey paint; (though it would have appeared to be painted grey from any distance.

 

CJI.

Edited September 24, 2023 by cctransuk

[wainwright1]

12 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Now - what follows may be completely irrelevant.

 

However, I do know that galvanised steel requires what is known as a mordant solution to be applied before conventional painting can be undertaken.

 

The solution deactivates the surface of the galvanising, such that paint will adhere. The visual effect of applying the solution is to dull the shiny bright surface of the galvanising to a satin / matt grey. Is this what we see being undertaken in the second image above?

 

If this is the case, the original finish was shiny 'silver', but the as-released finish (with insignia) was a satin / matt metallic grey - not grey paint; (though it would have appeared to be painted grey from any distance.

 

CJI.

Perhaps that might provide some more slight livery options for KR even if only produced in small quantities.

[Darius43]

12 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

However, I do know that galvanised steel requires what is known as a mordant solution to be applied before conventional painting can be undertaken.

 

The solution deactivates the surface of the galvanising, such that paint will adhere.

 

CJI.

T-Wash, as developed by British Rail.  Specified it many times in paint specs for galvanised steel structures.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[cctransuk]

5 hours ago, Darius43 said:

T-Wash, as developed by British Rail.  Specified it many times in paint specs for galvanised steel structures.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

Exactly! It's a good few years since I had need to remember the name.

 

CJI.