Accurascale's First Steam Locomotive; GWR Collett 78xx Manor Class!

[Captain Kernow]

20 hours ago, Accurascale Fran said:

Hi everyone,

 

Just another wee heads up - there will be a guide to converting our Manor to EM in a forthcoming edition of Model Railway Journal (teaser in the next issue I believe!)

 

I wont spoil the content by saying how easy, intermediate or difficult it was to do, but just giving a heads up as some modellers on here and elsewhere had previously asked if it was possible. 

 

When I hear which edition it will be in I shall report back.

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

That's very interesting, Fran.

 

I recall a post by yourself or one of your colleagues pretty early on, perhaps not long after the Manor had been announced, that you had certainly not designed it to be easily convertible to EM or P4 (and why should you, especially when most of those sold may never even leave their boxes or showcases?).

 

Perhaps someone likes a challenge!

 

Any OO RTR model can be converted to EM or P4 with a little work, perhaps ingenuity and some original thinking, but some are clearly easier than others. I shall also read the article with great interest, I wonder who it was that did the conversion?

 

[Accurascale Fran]

Hi @Captain Kernow,

 

Gerry Beale has carried out the conversion and inspected it thoroughly along with Martin Finney. You are quite correct in that it was not designed with easy conversion a primary concern, but we did do our best to not make it impossible either.

 

As I said, I don’t want to give the game away on the article on its ease or otherwise, but I guess I would not be hinting at it if it was a complete nightmare either!

 

All shall be revealed in due course! 
 

Cheers!

 

Fran

[Captain Kernow]

1 minute ago, Accurascale Fran said:

Gerry Beale has carried out the conversion and inspected it thoroughly along with Martin Finney. You are quite correct in that it was not designed with easy conversion a primary concern, but we did do our best to not make it impossible either.

 

As I said, I don’t want to give the game away on the article on its ease or otherwise, but I guess I would not be hinting at it if it was a complete nightmare either!

Thanks Fran.

 

I had a suspicion that it might have been Gerry, as he is an EM modellers who has both the skill and motivation to attempt such a conversion!

 

[1466]

1 hour ago, Accurascale Fran said:

Hi @Captain Kernow,

 

Gerry Beale has carried out the conversion and inspected it thoroughly along with Martin Finney. You are quite correct in that it was not designed with easy conversion a primary concern, but we did do our best to not make it impossible either.

 

As I said, I don’t want to give the game away on the article on its ease or otherwise, but I guess I would not be hinting at it if it was a complete nightmare either!

 

All shall be revealed in due course! 
 

Cheers!

 

Fran

Excellent  , and carried out and inspected by two very well respected modellers ! It gets better and better  . I shall await this article with enthusiasm.

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

1 hour ago, Accurascale Fran said:

Hi @Captain Kernow,

 

Gerry Beale has carried out the conversion and inspected it thoroughly along with Martin Finney. You are quite correct in that it was not designed with easy conversion a primary concern, but we did do our best to not make it impossible either.

 

As I said, I don’t want to give the game away on the article on its ease or otherwise, but I guess I would not be hinting at it if it was a complete nightmare either!

 

All shall be revealed in due course! 
 

Cheers!

 

Fran

Just check the cover for tools required to compleate.......if its a milling machine,welding set,lathe,plasma cutter and a 10 ton press its a piece of cake i guess

[Cofga]

After 4 1/2 months of operating my Manors I have finally posted a video with my observations. In spite of the clickbait title I love the Manor and after receiving my first, I went back and ordered a second. These really are some of the best steam locos in my collection. Here’s a link to the video.

 

 

Edited January 12 by Cofga

[BMacdermott]

Hello Larry

 

In balance (and support of Accurascale), my two Manors (Draycott and Erlestoke) both have good slow start and slow running performance.

 

I agree that they are not the best locos I have for this, but they aren't far off and it doesn't spoil my enjoyment.

 

I'm not an 'electrical expert', but I do wonder if controllers make a difference. I use what were Kent Panel Controls handheld units (now made by All Components) and I have the feedback switched to zero (or very low).

 

Brian

 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

8 minutes ago, BMacdermott said:

...I do wonder if controllers make a difference...

They inevitably do, up to the point where the design sophistication of the controller exceeds the inherent limitations of any particular mechanism. The old saw on not being able to make a silk purse from a sow's ear.

[Cofga]

34 minutes ago, BMacdermott said:

Hello Larry

 

In balance (and support of Accurascale), my two Manors (Draycott and Erlestoke) both have good slow start and slow running performance.

 

I agree that they are not the best locos I have for this, but they aren't far off and it doesn't spoil my enjoyment.

 

I'm not an 'electrical expert', but I do wonder if controllers make a difference. I use what were Kent Panel Controls handheld units (now made by All Components) and I have the feedback switched to zero (or very low).

 

Brian

 

With a modern top of the line transistorized controller with feedback I think you should be able to get better DC slow speed control. My most recent is a 20 year old MRC unit and with that the loco was OK but still tended to start with a lurch at about 1.7VDC. However it is as smooth as silk with DCC. The combination of the keep alive and back EMF control gives nice slow speed control without any stuttering or jerkiness.

[Captain Kernow]

16 hours ago, Cofga said:

With a modern top of the line transistorized controller with feedback I think you should be able to get better DC slow speed control. My most recent is a 20 year old MRC unit and with that the loco was OK but still tended to start with a lurch at about 1.7VDC. However it is as smooth as silk with DCC. The combination of the keep alive and back EMF control gives nice slow speed control without any stuttering or jerkiness.

But surely using any kind of feedback with a modern coreless motor is a no no? (I can't remember - do the Manors have coreless motors or traditional ones?).

 

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

1 hour ago, Captain Kernow said:

But surely using any kind of feedback with a modern coreless motor is a no no? (I can't remember - do the Manors have coreless motors or traditional ones?).

 

I get confused as to renting my empty bedrooms or motors but it think its a 3 pole they went for over the 5 pole,not coreless,anyone took the plunge and pre ordered Aegis from DCC concepts for running these models?

[IOW O2]

8 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

But surely using any kind of feedback with a modern coreless motor is a no no? (I can't remember - do the Manors have coreless motors or traditional ones?).

Up until last year I used GM Walkabout feedbacks with modern Bachmann and Kernow coreless locos, no issues.  It's the old Portescap type coreless from 30 years ago that is the issue I understand.

 

6 hours ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

........ but it think its a 3 pole they went for over the 5 pole,

3 Pole.

[Cofga]

The Manor has a 3 pole skew wound motor with a flywheel. You can use BEMF with coreless motors, just never place a coreless motored loco without a decoder on a DCC powered track as the high frequency of the DCC power can overheat the motor. 

[Cofga]

6 hours ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

I get confused as to renting my empty bedrooms or motors but it think its a 3 pole they went for over the 5 pole,not coreless,anyone took the plunge and pre ordered Aegis from DCC concepts for running these models?

I did several videos on using the Aegis system and various aspects of installing it in the fascia of a layout and installing a programming track. The production units are now in shipment from China to the UK and DCCconcepts plans to begin shipping pre-orders this coming week. The video series start with:

 

 

Edited January 13 by Cofga

[SteamingWales]

Is it cheeky to ask if/when we can expect a batch 2 of Manors.

 

Still over the moon with my 3 after 6 months and would happily add a couple more to the collection if the right models were announced!

[hminh2005]

I also own Anthony Manor' GWR 7800. It operates well on the H0 scale DCC layout. But I don't understand why they don't equip it with a headlight on the locomotive and a rear light on the tender? Meanwhile, there are lights in the cockpit.

 

[TimberValleyRailway]

Quote

I also own Anthony Manor' GWR 7800. It operates well on the H0 scale DCC layout. But I don't understand why they don't equip it with a headlight on the locomotive and a rear light on the tender? Meanwhile, there are lights in the cockpit.

I think this is so that there is an option for customisability as lamps were used to identify what type of train the loco was used on, so fixing the arrangement would limit potential customers if the lamp code was not what they wanted it for.

 

[No Decorum]

On 30/01/2024 at 07:07, hminh2005 said:

I also own Anthony Manor' GWR 7800. It operates well on the H0 scale DCC layout. But I don't understand why they don't equip it with a headlight on the locomotive and a rear light on the tender? Meanwhile, there are lights in the cockpit.

 

I think Accurascale is right. Hornby’s attempt to provide lights on the Turbomotive has been a bit of a disaster. First of all, you shouldn’t have a light or a lamp on the back of the tender if pulling a train. The correct place for a lamp (lit at night or unlit during the day) is on the last vehicle of the train. If the loco is reversing any distance, for example from a shed to a terminus, there should only be one lamp on the front. When a locomotive is hauling a train, the arrangement of the lamps indicates the type of train. The express passenger arrangement is fairly safe for a dedicated express passenger type but will need to be changed for a mixed traffic type, from, for example, express passenger to express goods or goods train without continuous brakes. There were ten different classes, each requiring a different arrangement of lamps. That is without considering the Southern, which had two extra lamp irons and arranged lamps by the destination of a train rather than its type. In short, it’s a minefield and the best way of tackling it is by providing unlit lamps which can be moved as appropriate.

 

That is, at the current state of 00 model technology. Who knows what may develop in the near or distant future?

Edited February 1 by No Decorum
A wrong word crept in.

[McC]

22 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

I think Accurascale is right. Hornby’s attempt to provide lights on the Turbomotive has been a bit of a disaster. First of all, you shouldn’t have a light or a lamp on the back of the tender if pulling a train. The correct place for a lamp (lit at night or unlit during the day) is on the last vehicle of the train. If the loco is reversing any distance, for example from a shed to a terminus, there should only be one lamp on the front. When a locomotive is hauling a train, the arrangement of the lamps indicates the type of train. The express passenger arrangement is fairly safe for a dedicated express passenger type but will need to be changed for a mixed traffic type, from, for example, express passenger to express goods or goods train without continuous brakes. There were ten different classes, each requiring a different arrangement of lamps. That is without considering the Southern, which had two extra lamp irons and arranged lamps by the destination of a train rather than its type. In short, it’s a minefield and the best way of tackling it is by providing unlit lamps which can be moved as appropriate.

 

That is, at the current state of 00 model technology. Who knows what may develop in the near or different future?

 

We've done some experimentation with induction LED lamps and various things, but the sheer variation means that for most, it's just not an important enough feature to justify the cost of doing it. 

[1466]

2 hours ago, hminh2005 said:

I also own Anthony Manor' GWR 7800. It operates well on the H0 scale DCC layout. But I don't understand why they don't equip it with a headlight on the locomotive and a rear light on the tender? Meanwhile, there are lights in the cockpit.

 

Hilarious !

Does the light in the cockpit go off when you operate it on 00 as opposed to HO ?

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, McC said:

 

We've done some experimentation with induction LED lamps and various things, but the sheer variation means that for most, it's just not an important enough feature to justify the cost of doing it. 

The provision of lighted lamps is one thing but the overscale and misshapen lamp bodies that some other manufacturers have fitted to accommodate them is quite another. On otherwise superbly detailed models they look like, to paraphrase the then Prince of Wales, carbuncles on the face of a much-loved friend.

Edited January 30 by St Enodoc
better choice of words

[Mallard60022]

10 minutes ago, 1466 said:

Hilarious !

Does the light in the cockpit go off when you operate it on 00 as opposed to HO ?

It's a Cab 1466. Cockpit is for Aircraft.

Phil

[Mallard60022]

2 hours ago, hminh2005 said:

I also own Anthony Manor' GWR 7800. It operates well on the H0 scale DCC layout. But I don't understand why they don't equip it with a headlight on the locomotive and a rear light on the tender? Meanwhile, there are lights in the cockpit.

 

It's called a Cab on a Loco. Cockpit is for Aircraft.

Phil

[adb968008]

3 hours ago, hminh2005 said:

I also own Anthony Manor' GWR 7800. It operates well on the H0 scale DCC layout. But I don't understand why they don't equip it with a headlight on the locomotive and a rear light on the tender? Meanwhile, there are lights in the cockpit.

 

Its not a light in the cockpit

its a homing device for enemy aircraft.

 

incoming !

 

😀

Edited January 30 by adb968008

[1466]

1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said:

It's called a Cab on a Loco. Cockpit is for Aircraft.

Phil

Dear Phil ,

quite so , but I was quoting the misnomers in the Op . Have a gander at it .

I saw the OP as an extended , subtle joke about our aspirations to fidelity  on the prototype and accuracy.

The context is that a fine scale model of a British steam loco is being operated in an American context .

There are  tongue in cheek references to American practice- Headlight and light on tender instead of lamps ; a specific reference to running a British OO  loco on HO track . Finally, the “ light in the cockpit “ (sic )is the firebox glow through the open fire door ! As in the picture.

When said “Hilarious “, I  wasn’t sneering at the misnomers but saying “Ha ha , I got the joke “. Hence my reference to “does the fire box glow work in OO as opposed to HO “. 

I thought  at first I was the one seeing the joke but now doubtful that is a case of “ separated by a common language “! 
Ken T9