Poll: GWR Pannier Tanks; time for a modern spec OO loco.

[woodenhead]

9 minutes ago, McC said:

 

We've made lots of things that are now razor blades, with enough data, anything can be made...

Cut out the middleman and just produce razor blades, we'll all be using them again soon to save on energy costs

[Steamport Southport]

Baffled by the inclusion of the 1366. 

 

The Heljan version is a fantastic model, as is the 1361. Got two so far and would quite easily buy another one.

 

Not mistaking it with the woeful DJM 1361 by any chance? That was terrible. Mine went back and I got a Heljan version instead.

 

No 54XX? 

 

 

 

Jason

[Captain Kernow]

6 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

No 54XX? 

That's a very valid observation!

 

Bachmann can't modify their 64XX without a new chassis.

 

[Captain Kernow]

59 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

For balance, Accurascale would also make a superb job of any of the other pannier tank classes in the poll, of course...

Oh yes yes yes, I do so agree!

 

[Penrhos1920]

I’d like these panniers, neither are in your list.

 

 

[Miss Prism]

1 hour ago, McC said:

We've made lots of things that are now razor blades, with enough data, anything can be made...

 

Indeed it can, but I don't want to enter that particular debate here. Suffice to say it's nice to see you interested in this thread, Mr Accurascale.

 

 

[McC]

32 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

 

Indeed it can, but I don't want to enter that particular debate here. Suffice to say it's nice to see you interested in this thread, Mr Accurascale.

 

 

delighted  for what it’s worth, laser scans are highly overrated in public perception. 

[Andy Keane]

7 hours ago, Harlequin said:

Hi @Neal Ball,

 

I notice that you haven't included the 2021/2101 class, which seemed to be quite popular in the "Is the time right...?" thread: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/169519-is-the-time-right-for-a-new-pannier-if-you-think-so-please-add-your-support-and-ideas-to-this-thread/

 

Edit: See Miss P's beautiful photo above!

 

If you add it in I'll vote for it! Or are you including them in the 1901 class???

 

I am with Phil on this - I believe 2097 and 2148 operated into Helston and would certainly buy a nice one from Accurascale, especially with good sound.

Andy

[Miss Prism]

15 minutes ago, McC said:

delighted  for what it’s worth, laser scans are highly overrated in public perception. 

 

Correct. The trouble comes when they become overrated in the perception of the manufacturer.

 

[Neal Ball]

41 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

I am with Phil on this - I believe 2097 and 2148 operated into Helston and would certainly buy a nice one from Accurascale, especially with good sound.

Andy

 

Interesting that a few people in the comments section are expressing an interest in a certain manufacturer producing a new Pannier tank loco. Accurascale, anything to add? Just say Yes! 

 

Thank you :-)

[Neal Ball]

2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Baffled by the inclusion of the 1366.....

....54XX? 

Jason

 

Thanks Jason.

 

The 1366 I included as I saw a few comments on-line about unreliability.... it was just a thought to include them. Early numbers suggest they, together with a no-topfeed 64xx would not be popular - given other choices.

 

Re: the 54xx - I would lump them together with the 57xx as the Collett designed post 1928 Pannier tanks. 

 

2 hours ago, Penrhos1920 said:

I’d like these panniers, neither are in your list.

 

 

 

Both look great, the latter photo I dwelt over for a while, but in the end chose other locos instead. 

 

44 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

I am with Phil on this - I believe 2097 and 2148 operated into Helston and would certainly buy a nice one from Accurascale, especially with good sound.

Andy

 

Since added into the poll.

 

Again though @Andy Keane another vote for Accurascale @McC and @Accurascale Fran should be very proud of the fan base you are building amongst GWR modellers.

[Andy WD]

2 hours ago, McC said:

delighted  for what it’s worth, laser scans are highly overrated in public perception. 

 

 I recently had a well known motor manufacturer after an old product to scan for use use in an advertising video.  Unfortunately it was a model not currently in our 'Black Museum' but I could offer the original blueprints to work from and build a 3D model. From the looks I received I think that there were some of their team that had never seen working drawings before and they thought they were some sort of arcane witchcraft!
However, the finished product worked out nicely.

I'm sure there must be enough GA's still around from various sources to make a correct model early pannier / saddletank. (Always taking into account the narrow track gauge we insist in keeping!)

[Neal Ball]

6 hours ago, Andy WD said:

 

 I recently had a well known motor manufacturer after an old product to scan for use use in an advertising video.  Unfortunately it was a model not currently in our 'Black Museum' but I could offer the original blueprints to work from and build a 3D model. From the looks I received I think that there were some of their team that had never seen working drawings before and they thought they were some sort of arcane witchcraft!
However, the finished product worked out nicely.

I'm sure there must be enough GA's still around from various sources to make a correct model early pannier / saddletank. (Always taking into account the narrow track gauge we insist in keeping!)

There’s bound to be sufficient drawings around either at the NRM or perhaps at Didcot.

[PMP]

I would suggest that due to it being a relatively recent release (and overall accurate), the 64xx is swapped to a 54xx type.

You get a distinctively different class, but suitable for similar work, and includes the ‘RTR commercial’ GWR-late BR lifeline.

Edited February 5, 2022 by PMP
Removal

[Star-rider]

This almost needs an option of “any pannier as long as it is made to modern standards”, I’m sure that would get most ticks in the box.

 

With so many possible prototype options there is a danger that the market looks too fragmented to be worthwhile. 100 people want a new pannier but only 6 want one of any particular variation…

 

I’m not suggesting that the poll is not worthwhile, it will be interesting to see what emerges especially if there is a clear winner, so well done for the initiative.

 

Take the unexpected Dapol Mainline & City Toplights, it is unlikely these would have run away with a wish-list poll, but put them on the market and the interest comes forward. (Build it and they will come…)

 

I already have 57XX and 8750s from Bachmann, but if a new one came along that was an easy fit for sound and had on-board stay alive I’d make room for it.

 

The era / period that people are modelling is the thing I’m most curious about, my interest ceases at the end of 1930s hence the reason that Bachmann have not sold me either of their last two new panniers. I’m intrigued to see how alone I am.

 

I’ll have a crack at the poll later. Good luck everyone and may your dreams come true.

[Compound2632]

12 minutes ago, Star-rider said:

Build it and they will come…

 

That seems to be the state of the market.

[PMP]

4 minutes ago, Star-rider said:

 

I already have 57XX and 8750s from Bachmann, but if a new one came along that was an easy fit for sound and had on-board stay alive I’d make room for it.

 

The era / period that people are modelling is the thing I’m most curious about, my interest ceases at the end of 1930s hence the reason that Bachmann have not sold me either of their last two new panniers. I’m intrigued to see how alone I am.

 

With no disrespect to @Star-riderthe piece above highlights the anomalies we modellers take with our time frames. Whilst he has no interest in ww2+ eras, he has panniers that didn’t exist in their RTR format (top feed fitted) for presumably his 30’s era layout. He’s far from alone in that pragmatic flexibility, I do not know if that helps or hinders a manufacturers choice of prototype/liveries?

[Star-rider]

25 minutes ago, PMP said:

With no disrespect to @Star-riderthe piece above highlights the anomalies we modellers take with our time frames. Whilst he has no interest in ww2+ eras, he has panniers that didn’t exist in their RTR format (top feed fitted) for presumably his 30’s era layout. He’s far from alone in that pragmatic flexibility, I do not know if that helps or hinders a manufacturers choice of prototype/liveries?

Don't worry, no disrespect inflicted!

 

I've spent the last couple of yaers focusing on my coaching stock and weeding out vehicles that aren't right and kit building what I can't buy RTR.

 

Locos will be under review next and then probably wagons.  In the meantime I need something to pull all of my stock with so I run what I have. Given the cost of producing / buying new models I have now adopted a policy of "fewer but better" - I'll buy less, but make sure what I do buy fits in with my needs and probably part finance it by shuffling off what does not fit.

 

At the moment anything with GWR on the side has gone to the great aution house, shirtbutton and "Great Western" liveried stock survives even if there are anomolies - I have a lot of learning to do to estalish exactly what those are.

 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2022 by Star-rider
One spelling mistake noted, there may be more...

[rprodgers]

Other than the top feed (fitted 1940s?) what other differences exist between the current 57xx/8750 model and its 1930s brethren?
Were steps fitted to the bunker in the 1930s?

If only Mainline or later Bachmann had adapted their excellent moulding with the top feed as a separate moulding.

Yes it can be done but you need to be careful how you repaint it to blend in with the factory finish.

It surprises me that so many want a new 57xx if so one of the Kerr Stuart ones would be more interesting.

 

The poll so far suggests the pre 1920s and 1920s to be a popular  era which isn’t that well served by manufacturers.
 

Personally I would prefer something, less modern to a 57xx/8750 and different to what there already is,  like an earlier larger pannier/saddle tank like the 2021 or the 2721.

The 850s are another but they’re rather dainty being almost  the GW equivalent of a Terrier.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2022 by rprodgers

[longchap]

What a very fine idea this poll was, born of our desire for one of GWR’s most iconic locos to have a new tooled high fidelity version, having pre-war origins.

 

Like others have already said, I’m reasonably happy with my Bachmann 57xx / 8750 Panniers and continue to use them, but would start replacing them if new ones appeared, however, what pre-war modellers could usefully use is a topless fed Pannier from a really much earlier period. These would still be giving service post war, most gaining a top feed, so still relevant right up to the end of steam and in several liveries.

 

In considering desirable features, I’d include optional top feed dependant on the period modelled, removable cab roof to get the crew in, etched plates, removable coal load with detailed bunker below and an available factory fitted sound option (Zimo would be nice). Other things like the diecast chassis, two screw body removal, NEM sockets, toolless decoder installation, etc, etc are simple “no brainers”, so ‘nuff said.    

 

As to manufacturer, this is naturally outside our control. I know those I would not wish to produce it, but would happily settle down with an ethical and responsive company, happy to discuss and develop specification details as such a project moved forward.

 

So far, I have read and approve of the positivity of comments being made and sincerely hope that we may enjoy the warm glow from the end of the tunnel.

 

Many thanks Neal and all those who support this venture.

 

Best,

 

Bill

Edited February 5, 2022 by longchap

[Nearholmer]

47 minutes ago, longchap said:

Other things like the diecast chassis, two screw body removal, NEM sockets, toolless decoder installation, etc, etc are simple “no brainers”, so ‘nuff said.

I’m not a potential customer, but one thing that would put me off getting into 00 is the apparent lack of robustness and repairability in drive trains these days. To me, an ideal model loco is one in which it is possible for “the average modeller” to replace the motor once it expires, has brass gears that again can be replaced fairly simply, and probably has replaceable bushings/bearing in which the axles run.

 

Having grown-up with Hornby Dublo and Triang, and now being into 1950s-made 0 gauge, some of the super-ingenious, but very hard indeed to repair, designs of modern 00 chassis leave me very cold.

 

Is this something others value?

[MrWolf]

Actually, it is. The innards of the loco should be easily accessible and simple to service or repair.

A good example is the old Hornby R052 Jinty chassis I'm modifying at present. (Chinese version, 1990s?)

Remove four baseplate screws and the wheelsets simply drop out. Remove one screw and the motor, wiring and pick-ups come out as a unit.

The wheels are pressed onto splined axles with a positive stop. No problems with gauging or quartering.

Some pretty good engineering on what was basically a cheap toy.

[McC]

I don't think chassis have gotten any more 'ingenious' over time, although the tolerances might be a little finer, it should still be possible to replace motors, gears, and generally maintain a locomotive 'for life' within reason.

[Phil Parker]

24 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

To me, an ideal model loco is one in which it is possible for “the average modeller” to replace the motor once it expires, has brass gears that again can be replaced fairly simply, and probably has replaceable bushings/bearing in which the axles run.

 

The "average modeller" used to post on here that pushing pre-made handrails into pre-made holes on a ViTrains loco was too difficult. I doubt someone with that skill level is stripping down a chassis and replacing bearings. In the days of Dublo and Tri-ang, life was made easier for the designer because modellers didn't expect a mass of tiny detail below the footplate.

[TrevorP1]

The number of votes spread across the four ‘oldies’ in the poll is interesting. It must mean something but I’m not sure what!

 

Didn’t the red box people do a 2021 way back? Scope for a “No! That one’s ours!” encounter